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  1. #11
    TWISTED is offline Training Camp
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    What exactly do you base this on? I know that McKenzie is renowned as your "best defender" but it seems to be a case of one eyed leading the blind. I personally feel that Winfield is flat out better but we can look at the stats straight up. Winfield has a clear cut edge in Tackles and Forced fumbles. McKenzie does come up with more INT’s. But as we all know, its hard to get picks when nobody throws towards you. Besides, we have the two top guys in Chavous and Russell to handle the pick department.
    Also lets look into some of the recent press releases. Try to get the skinny on both guys and try to evaluate

    “Winfield, considered the top cornerback who didn't have the franchise tag”

    “The 26-year-old was a first-round pick of the Bills. He tackles as well as he covers.”

    ESPN.com senior writers John Clayton and Len Pasquarelli contributed to this report.

    The Associated Press contributed to this report.

    “Despite his 5-foot-9 frame, the former Ohio State cornerback is considered one of the best tacklers in the league. His eight tackles for loss last season were tops on the Bills.”

    “Most people considered Winfield, who the Vikings stole from the New York Jets with a last-minute offer, the best corner on the market without a franchise-player designation. The 26-year-old enjoyed perhaps his best season in 2003-04, with 109 tackles, 12 passes defended and one interception with the Bills.”

    -This story is from ESPN.com's automated news wire.

    Behind Champ Bailey, Winfield was considered the next-best cornerback on the market. Minnesota's pass-defense was instantly upgraded once the ink dried on this deal. Winfield is one of the top options as a defensive back in leagues that use individual defenders.

    -CBS Sporstline.com

    VS.

    “Cornerback Mike McKenzie fulfilled his pledge to boycott the Green Bay Packers' first offseason minicamp, the first formal step in his demand to be traded. “

    "McKenzie is threatening to retire unless he's traded. "
    -AP NEWS
    The Associated Press News Service
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  2. #12
    TWISTED is offline Training Camp
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    Or we can go by player ratings.

    The rankings are a total player-rating system based on various offensive and defensive statistics. Players increase their scores with every contribution they make to the game.




    3. Brian Williams, MIN
    54.81

    4. Antoine Winfield, BUF
    53.94

    5. Corey Chavous, MIN
    52.62

    12. Brian Russell, MIN
    49.69

    Then way down on the second page…

    88. Mike McKenzie, GB
    30.64


    hmmmmm How did all four of my starters, get rated WAY up there and your cry baby Mike McKenzie (who looks like the love child of Whoopi Goldberg and the Predator by the way) get so far down on the list?? That’s a mystery. Its almost like he's not that good. Hell even Al Harris was higher!
    Bottom line is, my guy will be there and yours won’t.
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  3. #13
    briboy75's Avatar
    briboy75 is offline Asst. Coach
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    hey twisted, where did you get the player rankings from?

  4. #14
    TWISTED is offline Training Camp
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    CBS Sportsline.com
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  5. #15
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    Two things:

    One, the Packer fan who posted here is obviously delusional. Without McKenzie, the Packers defensive backfield is average at best. True, the two rooks may come up to speed quickly, and even improve the Pack secondary...or they could be the second coming of Bhawoh Jue. Most "experts" around the league rate Winfield as good as or better than McKenzie, BWill is highly regarded as a rapidly improving corner, Chavous was the Pro Bowl starter, and Russell tied for the league lead in interceptions despite some other apparent holes in his game (But still not bad for a guy that was a QB until his last season in college).

    Two, Javon Walker may wind up being an outstanding WR this season. He certainly had a big YPC average and lots of TDs last year. If he has improved this much in the offseason, he gives the Packers a real weapon for the Vikings and the rest of the NFL to contend with.
    SKOL VIKINGS!

  6. #16
    hawaiianvike21 is offline Team Alumni
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    O ya forgot about ahmad carrol, hope that rookie gets roasted by moss if hes defended by him. I really though the packers could have gotten some one better in the first and picked up a corner in the second or third rounds.
    Draft magazines had carroll being a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
    Im guessing mckenzie stays and pairs with harris again. Harris is average or just above it and mckenzie has decent talent but i didnt think mckenize showed his talent last year. Lets just hope it happens again this year.
    Williams was a stud last year and winfield has great abiltity covering the receiver and excellent tackling skills.

    Again i see our corners to be better but we shall all see this coming season.
    Hupo oe ke kau ana i ka waiupa a ma kou pa o & Hupo na Po o waiupa a


  7. #17
    TEXPACK is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    Purplepat,

    Excellent points. The Packers secondary minus Mckenzie will be limited to zone coverages. I think its better than 50/50 McKenzie will sign secondary to the fact if he doesn't he must pay back a tremendous amount of money back to the Packers organization, plus fines etc.

    His best option for getting a new contract or being traded is having a breakout year.

    The Vikings have had great improvements to becomming a good secondary. Just two years ago the Vikings must have been regarded as one of the leagues worst units inclusive of the expansion club Texans. Kudos to Mike Tice for addressing the need, this wasn't really rocket science.

    This may be a contradiction but, I firmly believe although the Vikings may have a better starting four they still lack depth and overall are a worse unit than the Packers DBs. Many times the Packers will field 5-6 DBs against opponents this year. Our stength will come in numbers.

    Just imagine that the Packers WR do have the breakout year most Packer faithful expect will the Vikings have the depth to cover down the field? This leaves your linebackers pretty vulnerable for the underneath and intermediate routes. I think Williams is an outstanding player and should make a very deep splash this year but, I don't think the African or Hovan are capable of bringing any consistant presssure. How many years has it been now since Hovan even got a sack? You know Gilbert at 375lbs++ got a few! What does that say about that self promoting goof.

    The Vikings are an improved team the Packers are Champions of The NFC North the last two years. One would expect Minnesota to address its shortcommings. The Packers admittedly made mistakes in their recent past with Free Agent Johnson and Drafting Reynolds #10. Ridding themselves of 2 roster slots should free up a great deal of cap room around 5-6million next year. This year will be a challenge as it was last year and the year prior but, the Packers have proven to be a solid and cohesive unit. Green Bay has no doubt a top 5 NFL Offense and with any luck (if they find a diamond or two) a mediocre defense. 2006 the defense should be really really special. Translation 2005 NFC North Champions 2006 Superbowl Champions!
    Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will all be judged by only one thing - the result." --Vince Lombardi

  8. #18
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
    ItalianStallion is offline Jersey Retired
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    Just thought you should know Winfield was ranked as the #9 corner in the league in addition to Williams at #20. Meanwhile McKenzie was 14th or something and Harris wasn't even rated in the top 25.

    looks like you've got a nickel corner and a couple of rooks if/when McKenzie doesn't show up, that is something to feel real good about.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  9. #19
    enlvikeman's Avatar
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    I could care less if a Packer fan thinks his corners are better then ours or are rated higher or lower...corners don't face eachother, the only true test is to see who's corners shuts down who's recievers. One thing is for sure though...Randy Moss owns the Packers and has never been shut down by them. Hell! the packers have spent 3 drafts on first round corners just because of Randy Moss.



    "24 mil under the cap? there are teams 30 mil over the cap, heck that gives us at least 50 mil to spend"

    CollegeGuyJeff circa 2006

  10. #20
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
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    Packers corners having trouble with Javon Walker in minicamp

    TEXPACK, most teams don't look to beat you with mismatches with their 3rd receiver vs the opponents 3rd corner, when there is already as mismatch with the opponents 1/2 corners. Like we really care if your 3rd,4th corners can cover Burleson or Campell when we got Moss on Al Harris all day long.

    Also how often do defense run a dime package? Not that often compared to when they don't. So take solace in your ability to have a slightly more solid dime coverage (which is still very debatable), but have weaker nickel and base packages.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

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