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  1. #21
    Dibbzz is offline Starter
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    I am definitely willing to cut the Wilfs (for now) some slack considering the Vikings aren't moving to L.A., at least for the next thirty years, so myself as well as a lot of Viking fans are going to drink the Purple Kool-Aid (at least for a little while) and see where this ride takes us. Admittedly, I do like it best when owners back off and let the GM's (or equivalent thereof) make the personnel decisions for the team. I always would laugh when the Raiders were on the clock during practically any NFL draft just because of the out-there picks that Al Davis would make.

    With that said I'm willing to wait this out to see where it goes. The official hiring of Spielman as GM was good as it gave him an official title as opposed to having XYZ people assist with the draft process and things of the like, which was good because I'll be honest I had no f'ing clue who was responsible for drafting in years past. I'm sure the Wilfs like a lot of NFL owners butt in to some degree because, well, they're owners. This is their team and aside from their respective business ventures that made their wealth to begin with this is likely their biggest investment in owning an NFL team. That said I think we have a pretty competent ownership group and are in my opinion a lot better off than a lot of NFL teams are. I'm willing to change my mind on this a few years down the road and by no means are we (or the Wilfs for that matter) perfect but I don't think it's fair to put the blame solely on them for the debacle of 2009 or for any Vikings misfortune in years past.

    I mean for crying out loud, look at the Cleveland Browns. We definitely could be doing a lot worse...

  2. #22
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post

    Hell, we're 7 years into the Wilfs reign, and we're STILL rebuilding....and, worse, we're just now starting over AGAIN.

    And we will again in 2 years when Frazier gets fired....

    Caine
    This...

    This is what only some of us get. Many still believe last year to be the start of Wilf's rebuilding year, when in fact it started in 2006 & has yet to come to fruition, only now we are in a much bigger hole than we were then.
    Last edited by singersp; 05-28-2012 at 10:00 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #23
    PackSux!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    This...

    This is what only some of us get. Many still believe last year to be the start of Wilf's rebuilding year, when in fact it started in 2006 & has yet to come to fruition, only now we are in a much bigger hole than we were then.
    I think everyone understands that we started the rebuild in 2006, but alot of us don't think 2009 was part of the rebuilding. I know that I don't look back at the 2009 season and call it a rebuilding year. In my opinion we rebuilt in 2006 and went on a run and made it to the NFC championship game in 2009, everything fell apart at the seams in 2010 and we are now in the middle of another rebuild.

    We had some success after the first rebuild but it wasn't enough so perhaps we will get it right this time. At least we can all hope.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Atta boy, Peaches!!! You finally got it!!!

    You're a bit off in your interpretation of history - leaving out some fundamental points which place us in the position we are now - but you showed a solid effort there.

    See, starting in 2005, we were also at the tail end of a rebuilding phase which had seen Mike Tice hamstrung financially by Red *screws squirrels* McCombs. When Wilf bought the team, the nucleus of a successful franchise existed. Of course, that was eliminated in '06 with the hiring of Childress.Now that in itself wasn't bad - many people were tired of Tice and felt the team needed a new direction. What raised hackles, however, was Childress' track record of NEVER having been the play caller and his hiring of Darrel Bevell as his OC. I was one of the first to predict bad things from this combination.

    Where you point to annual improvements, I instead see dumb luck smiling on Childress. Childress' KAO quickly showed itself to be a joke, and it was only the selection of Adrian Peterson in '07 that allowed Childress to salvage his hold on the team - and his job IMO.

    The Offense continued to sputter as we continued to be told by Childress that Jackson was ready to step up....wait...not yet....next year....ooops....maybe not.....next year for SURE.....I mean, how about NEXT year.......screw it, I'm getting Favre.

    This culminates in Childress getting a big fat contract extension....

    Now, you must be wondering how this reflects on Zygi? Throughout this entire process, many of us were calling for Childress' head. Zygi didn't pull the trigger. And, I will admit, there were some indicators that MAYBE things would turn around. Some of us, myself being one, didn't think they would, and clamored for Childress' removal.

    Finally, the '10 meltdown occurs. Favre's ankle can't stand up, his penis can - in an allged text - but taht doesn't save the team. And, FINALLY, Childress is fired.

    At THIS point, we are still waiting to see what type of owner we have. Is he going to repeat the mistakes of his early years and keep playing "Football Guy", or is he going to recognize that he is simply a rich fan, and remove himself and his family from day-to-day involvement?

    And Wilf hires Leslie Frazier. Another "No Experience" coach so that HE - Zygi Wilf - and his family can continue to stay in the decision making loop on football matters.

    If this were a property development conglomerate, I'd have no issue - that's what the Wilfs DO.....but this is FOOTBALL, something the Wilfs have only WATCHED.

    The hiring of Frazier, and then the hiring and promotion of Spielman - all the while KEEPING Zygi, Mark, and Lester Wilf in the decision making loop - simply indicates to me that Zygi hasn't figured out what Bob Kraft knows so well. His role isn't to make football decisions...his role is to hire football people to do that.

    As for the stadium....that's pure economics. Almost every academic economist agrees that the real winners in publicly funded stadiums are the team owners. That's been proven time and time again. What is almost NEVER proven is that the States benefit from these deals in the long run.

    At the end of the day, I am not a big fan right now of Zygi and the Wilf family. I think their continued involvement in the day-to-day FOOTBALL end of things will continue to slow our teams growth. I think that their desire to remain "in the mix" has limited our applicant pool, and will result in the continued hiring of coaches with little to no clout who will try to work a miracle while carrying the Wilfs on their back.

    Hell, we're 7 years into the Wilfs reign, and we're STILL rebuilding....and, worse, we're just now starting over AGAIN.

    And we will again in 2 years when Frazier gets fired....

    Caine
    We will soon see what happens during the Frazier years, until then I will hold my opinion.

    One thing I know is in 2005 we were not at the tail end of rebuilding, unless of course you mean the rebuilding of a mediocre team. You realize that from 2000 to 2005 we were not really that good, we made it to the playoffs one time in 2004 and that was with a 8-8 record. The best record we achieved was 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

    I am having a hard time understanding that a nucleus of a successful franchise existed when Wilf bought the team. What I remember is a bunch of dipshit party boat players and misfits on this team. And Tice seemed to allow this kind of conduct, perhaps that is why Ziggy fired him? The Vikings were a disgrace to the public eye during them years if you remember correctly, because I do.


    Its good that we agree to disagree. The forums would be pretty damn lame if everyone had the same opinion.

  5. #25
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    well

    the twinks have done damn well considering the money diffrence
    its all about the $$$$$
    the vikes really need to do better down the draft $$$ is there
    and back to the twins the are in contention most years do to drafting and developing talent
    the twolves totally ownership. look at the talent that has went threw the tuntisle in minny
    the wild? i. stopped follwing hockey after the stars left
    None

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackSux! View Post
    We will soon see what happens during the Frazier years, until then I will hold my opinion.

    One thing I know is in 2005 we were not at the tail end of rebuilding, unless of course you mean the rebuilding of a mediocre team. You realize that from 2000 to 2005 we were not really that good, we made it to the playoffs one time in 2004 and that was with a 8-8 record. The best record we achieved was 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

    I am having a hard time understanding that a nucleus of a successful franchise existed when Wilf bought the team. What I remember is a bunch of dipshit party boat players and misfits on this team. And Tice seemed to allow this kind of conduct, perhaps that is why Ziggy fired him? The Vikings were a disgrace to the public eye during them years if you remember correctly, because I do.


    Its good that we agree to disagree. The forums would be pretty damn lame if everyone had the same opinion.
    Consider who our key Offensive and defensive players were in '05. Consider the fact that - despite our small animal molesting owner - our DEFENSE had a solid core. When you realize that we STILL rely on several of those players (most notably Williams, Henderson, and Winfield), you'll see where I'm going.

    Offensively, we were still reeling from the loss of Moss and the discovery that Culpepper was a faux-QB, but we had a younger line, anchored by a not-complete waste-of-space McKinney.

    No, it was FAR from perfect, build it had a solid foundation.

    Who are our foundation players now? Aside from Peterson and Harvin, who do we rely on Offensively? Aside From Allen and maybe Greenway, who anchors our Defense?

    We're STILL anchored by Tice-era players. The Childress era was a waste with a very few notable exceptions. And, sadly, the Childress era mirrors the Wilf era.

    That means that the rebuilding we were attempting to do under the barnyard wonder Red *felaciates felines* McCombs - despite not being given any money in free agency to work with - has CONTINUED with an almost unlimited budget, but with no real UNDERSTANDING or ABILITY behind it for the past SEVEN YEARS!!!!!

    Except now our O-Line is worse, our D-line is worse, our secondary is worse, our receivers are worse, and the talented guys we still have are getting older.

    THIS is what I look at when I think about Wilf's success/failure. How has our team changed under his ownership? IMO, we didn't go forward. In '09, Childress took a shot at glory with Favre that ALMOST worked. Some of us recognized the paper-tiger that we were by pointing out that Favre elevated our Receivers, not the other way around, that we still hadn't addressed our core QB concerns, and our core defensive players were getting older.

    That's STILL true today. Almost 3 years later. And, to me, that's unacceptable. And, IMO, the PRIME reason for all of this is the FACT that Zygi Wilf and his brothers are involved in the day-to-day operations of the team...where they shouldn't be. Instead of hiring a strong GM, they hired Spielman. Instead of seeking out a strong, proven, HC, they hired Frazier. At EVERY turn, when their continued failure through meddling was exposed, they simply inserted another disposable nobody into the leadership roles, and continued to play "Football guy". They consistently fail to recognize that the ultimate failure is THEIRS, and until they do, we will CONTINUE on this cycle of mediocrity/atrociousness.

    And THAT is why they're bad owners. They refuse to see that THEY are the problem.

    Caine

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