Thread: Our Starting QB is Injury Prone

Originally Posted by Traveling_Vike

I won't cry if we end up with RGIII but I do not believe he's the right pick at this time. We simply have too many other much more glaring needs to see to.

We took a QB in the first last year. Regardless of what he did for us, going the same way this year states loudly and clearly that we wasted that pick last time and are a bunch of idiots. It says we are stepping back another year because we screwed up and have to take a "do-over."

For the same reason, coming from the opposite side of the equation, that is exactly why we MUST take either Kalil or Blackmon. These two spots are glaring needs which must be filled immediately or it again sets us back another year. Claiborne also fits this, to a slightly lesser degree.

I say take Kalil and let him learn the NFL game starting RIGHT NOW. Staff concerns don't worry me that much; only his position coach will have any real impact in his first year. If we wait, there are no guarantees we will land a competent FA and then where will we be? RIght back in the same mess again.

The argument that you take an upgrade when you can get one only holds water if there's only one obvious position at which this can occur. We have many. ANY of these guys would be almost guaranteed as an immediate and significant upgrade. The QB position has the smallest gap, IMO, among them, therefore should be the last concern, not the first.

Staying with Ponder is also not in any way, shape or form, "settling." He was a first round QB, and still has all the potential that he showed back then, along with a year of NFL experience under his belt. The so-called "injury-prone" thing is overblown, as our OL had more to do with that than Ponder himself did. And the second hip injury was a simple and obvious result of returning before he was truly healed from the first one.

Take Kalil or Blackmon. Better yet, trade down if we can and STILL get one of them. Address the defensive backfield in FA, and go HARD. Those are the building blocks we need for the future. Not another QB, no matter how good he looks.

When you say Ponder is a 1st round QB....what exactly does that mean? Jackson was a 2nd round QB. Brady was a 6th round QB. Whom would you rather have?

Ponder has potential...but has a ways to go before we start proclaiming him our franchise guy. Not that he can't get there - he's only had 1 season - but my POINT is that he isn't "carved in stone" as a franchise QB.

IMO, QB is the single most important position on the field. When you have the opportunity to land a guy who is projected to be a lock as a franchise guy - and that's what I'm reading about RGIII - you do it. Best case scenario is that Ponder and RGIII both turn into money, worst case is both flop. But that gives us great odds on having a great QB.

Do we NEED other positions? Oh hell yes. And if RGIII is off the board at #2 I won't cry. If someone is willing to pay huge to move up to #3, I'd also consider that depending upon compensation and how far we fall.

But, if we're staying at #3, and RGIII is available, I don't think it's a bad move to draft him.

Caine

Originally Posted by kevoncox

Marr,
I don't think he has "it". I simply get the career backup feeling of dread from him. He lacks the arm strength to throw the 15 yard out, 18 yard comeback, and almost anything on the wide side of the field. His arm is adequate at best. You can't be groomed to win if you can't stay on the field. He isn't learning to take a beating, he i getting knocked out of games. I will like to point out that all the grooming in the world made Sanchez an average QB. When a guy doesn't have "it", you are wasting your time.

The possible combanation of Harvin, Peterson and Robert Griffen III, has me drooling. When you start doing your research, I think you will change your tune. What I saw from this guy is it. He does everything you want from a leader at the QB position.

Holy shit. Trent Dilfer, is that you?

The idea of taking RGIII is intriguing, no doubt. But even if we had the first pick, with both Luck and RGIII are on the board, I would bet dollars to donuts Speilman wouldn't draft either of them. Ponder was his pick, and I don't think there is any way he picks a QB in the first round that essentially admits he made a mistake.

The best we can hope for is Khalil. Elite LTs don't grow on trees. He would immediatly upgrade two positions because we can move Johnson to the inside. Taking a QB or WR only upgrades one position. CB is the only other position where we would get a double upgrade, but CBs aren't usually taken in the first 3 picks.

Bottom line is Khalil, at the third pick, gives us the most bang for our buck. It may not be sexy, its better looking than the horror show that has been our LT position ever since McKinnie decided that record labels were more important than not being a fat lazy ass.

What is the one thing that almost ALL rookie QB's say about what impresses them about the NFL in their first year? The speed of the game. That factor with the lack of a strong O-line it is no surprise to me the outcome of last season.
That being said does anyone think that RGIII will not struggle? The teams that this kid played against were not the most elite of teams making it easier to be impressive. Not taking away anything from hiim, HE IS AMAZING. But that is not to say that Ponder can't or won't be a SB winner. Remember the QB will only be as good as the team around him. Not that the QB cannot make players around him better, but just having an good or great or elite QB alone will not get you to the promised land. So, we have already invested in Ponder, lets give him a fighting chance and surround this kid with some players that will be there with him for the long haul. Whether that be Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon, or trading down and doing the same. Vikings have to do very well this offseason to have any hope of being a contender in the near future.
Sidenote: Look at Bradford, talk about labeling someone injury prone...

Ok first off.. Taking RGIII would be a dumb pick. Top reason being we just used a first rd pick on Ponder. Next, you show me one qb who would not have been injured with our pathetic OL. In my 30+ yrs of watching and rooting for vikes. It was by far the worst OL we have ever had.. How many times did we see our RBs get hit just as getting ball handed to them. Or Ponder getting hit before he even got set. Also how many one year wonder college qbs have we seen get drafted high and then flop. RG III may turn out to be good, but under no circumstance do we draft him.. To be ready to give up on Ponder already would be a real dumbass thing to do.. And to say he is injury prone, is premature. I liked what i saw from Ponder up until the point of where he kept getting crap knocked out of him. He then started playin with hesitation.. No matter how you spin it, it wouldnt matter who our qb was, without a better OL they would be injured too. That is a fact.....

Originally Posted by MindCrimes67

Ok first off.. Taking RGIII would be a dumb pick. Top reason being we just used a first rd pick on Ponder. Next, you show me one qb who would not have been injured with our pathetic OL. In my 30+ yrs of watching and rooting for vikes. It was by far the worst OL we have ever had.. How many times did we see our RBs get hit just as getting ball handed to them. Or Ponder getting hit before he even got set. Also how many one year wonder college qbs have we seen get drafted high and then flop. RG III may turn out to be good, but under no circumstance do we draft him.. To be ready to give up on Ponder already would be a real dumbass thing to do.. And to say he is injury prone, is premature. I liked what i saw from Ponder up until the point of where he kept getting crap knocked out of him. He then started playin with hesitation.. No matter how you spin it, it wouldnt matter who our qb was, without a better OL they would be injured too. That is a fact.....

People that use your type of knowledge are what we call optimist. I don't care where the guy was drafted. You draft the best players you can. Did the Panthers say that they couldn't give up on Clausen because he was drafted the year before with a 2nd round pick? Should they have passed on Cam? Looks like they have themselves a winner to me. In yoru train of thought, they would have skipped Cam and drafted an OL to make Clausen look better.

The fact remains that we drafted an Average Qb number 12 overall. That doesn't make him an elite QB. In this years draft he might be the 4th QB selected. Elite players tend not to be the 4th best player at their position. Also QB is the most important position on the field. You need to damn sure make sure you do it right and have an elite talent if you want to win and win frequently. Ponder is about to get benched for Joe Webb. Write it down. He loses his starting job to Webb.

Originally Posted by TheAnimal93

What is the one thing that almost ALL rookie QB's say about what impresses them about the NFL in their first year? The speed of the game. That factor with the lack of a strong O-line it is no surprise to me the outcome of last season.
That being said does anyone think that RGIII will not struggle? The teams that this kid played against were not the most elite of teams making it easier to be impressive. Not taking away anything from hiim, HE IS AMAZING. But that is not to say that Ponder can't or won't be a SB winner. Remember the QB will only be as good as the team around him. Not that the QB cannot make players around him better, but just having an good or great or elite QB alone will not get you to the promised land. So, we have already invested in Ponder, lets give him a fighting chance and surround this kid with some players that will be there with him for the long haul. Whether that be Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon, or trading down and doing the same. Vikings have to do very well this offseason to have any hope of being a contender in the near future.
Sidenote: Look at Bradford, talk about labeling someone injury prone...

Bradford has completed a 17 game NFL season.
Ponder played in 11 games and got knocked out of 3 of them. WTF are you talking about?

Originally Posted by kevoncox

Ponder played in 11 games and got knocked out of 3 of them.

He can't stay healthy for 1 season, yet people say he needs more time? Now it's acceptable?

He led us to 0 wins in 11 games (He's accredited for 2 wins, but 1 came as a result of a missed FG, the other was won with Webb as QB) & fans still think he's our franchise QB?

Tends to contradict how they thought in the past.

Perhaps Dilfer (who has watched virtually every snap he took in college) wasn't spewing drivel after all & he and others did know what they were talking about.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for giving Ponder more time. I'm just surprised so many more fans have curbed their reasons for benching or wanting to get rid of QB's in the past.

After we sign Peyton to a 4 year deal, I wonder if they'll call Ponder a bust because he hasn't done anything in 5 years & failed to win the starting position?

That being said, if a better QB option comes along in the draft at #3, you take it.

If not this year, then next. My gut feeling tells me with Spielman as our GM, were going to have more opportunities for top 10 picks in the draft.

Originally Posted by kevoncox

People that use your type of knowledge are what we call optimist. I don't care where the guy was drafted. You draft the best players you can. Did the Panthers say that they couldn't give up on Clausen because he was drafted the year before with a 2nd round pick? Should they have passed on Cam? Looks like they have themselves a winner to me. In yoru train of thought, they would have skipped Cam and drafted an OL to make Clausen look better.

The fact remains that we drafted an Average Qb number 12 overall. That doesn't make him an elite QB. In this years draft he might be the 4th QB selected. Elite players tend not to be the 4th best player at their position. Also QB is the most important position on the field. You need to damn sure make sure you do it right and have an elite talent if you want to win and win frequently. Ponder is about to get benched for Joe Webb. Write it down. He loses his starting job to Webb.

Two comments:
1- It is rare to have such a high pick in this organization. Every other year the Vikings needed a quarterback but didn't have an early enough pick to get an elite player. Will this rare opportunity be squandered?

2- I'm in the camp that believes Webb will take the job from Ponder if he can't stay healthy.
Webb seems to be getting better despite very limited playing time. His passing is improving and he doesn't get sacked as much as Ponder despite poor protection.
Right now Webb seems to be at least as good as Ponder!

Originally Posted by kevoncox

Bradford has completed a 17 game NFL season.
Ponder played in 11 games and got knocked out of 3 of them. WTF are you talking about?

Well, shucks, when did they sneak in that extra game a season? And I thought it was two games in the offing this summer...

I believe what TheAnimal93 was pointing out is that coming out of college, Sam Bradford had a lot of questions concerning his surgically repaired shoulder, and he did complete his first 16 game season his rookie year. However, he "regressed" his second year by only playing 10.

And what about the injury prone Matthew Stafford? There are many, including myself, who were calling Stafford, who played 10 games and 3 games his first two years respectively, a wasted draft pick. Now, after his first 16 game, 5,000 yard season, I'm eating a little crow. Are you saying that, knowing what we know now, the Lions should have kicked Stafford to the curb after his rookie year?

I'm not sure Ponder is anyone's future. But to dismiss the kid as injury-prone after his first and only pro year is a tad short-sighted.