Thread: Our Beloved Vikings True Identity Lost?

I always felt the true Identity of our beloved Vikings has always been our lines. The D-line has always been feared to a degree with the likes of Doleman, Allen, Randle, Williams Wall, Eller, Lawson, Marshall, Page etc. Also our O-line with the likes of Stringer RIP, Birk, Yary, Lowedermilk, Dixon, Mcdaniel, etc.
It seems that with Todays Vikings we don't have that same feel of our opponents fearing our Lines. Our D-line has still been good to great but not super feared as in the old days, And our O-line has been a bit of a wash even slightly before Birk left. Im not totally blaming the coaching staff of the past few years but it does seem that Childress did a great deal to destroy our Identity, by not getting either Line to Dominate year in and year out, Like the old days people feared Doleman, they feared Randle when Randle was the only guy to stop. Our Quarterbacks used to be able to have time to look down field. One of the reasons i think weve had so many older Veterans come here and still compete at a high level was because they knew our O-line could protect them. Now i fear for whoever is under center.
Its not all the players fault Ryan cook showed hes a decent Guard/Center and should never been out at tackle, Hutch is still a good to great guard just getting up there in years. For the O-line i really think the scheme was terrible call since even the player brought in were to big to be really effective at it other than maybe Sullivan.

My hope is Fraziers realizes that our D and O lines have been a major factor of this teams 5th best winning percentage over it history.

Just been thinking about the large number of Great lineman who have been part of this team.

Originally Posted by "delviking" #1089695

I always felt the true Identity of our beloved Vikings has always been our lines. The D-line has always been feared to a degree with the likes of Doleman, Allen, Randle, Williams Wall, Eller, Lawson, Marshall, Page etc. Also our O-line with the likes of Stringer RIP, Birk, Yary, Lowedermilk, Dixon, Mcdaniel, etc.
It seems that with Todays Vikings we don't have that same feel of our opponents fearing our Lines. Our D-line has still been good to great but not super feared as in the old days, And our O-line has been a bit of a wash even slightly before Birk left. Im not totally blaming the coaching staff of the past few years but it does seem that Childress did a great deal to destroy our Identity, by not getting either Line to Dominate year in and year out, Like the old days people feared Doleman, they feared Randle when Randle was the only guy to stop. Our Quarterbacks used to be able to have time to look down field. One of the reasons i think weve had so many older Veterans come here and still compete at a high level was because they knew our O-line could protect them. Now i fear for whoever is under center.
Its not all the players fault Ryan cook showed hes a decent Guard/Center and should never been out at tackle, Hutch is still a good to great guard just getting up there in years. For the O-line i really think the scheme was terrible call since even the player brought in were to big to be really effective at it other than maybe Sullivan.

My hope is Fraziers realizes that our D and O lines have been a major factor of this teams 5th best winning percentage over it history.

Just been thinking about the large number of Great lineman who have been part of this team.

Wasn't that long ago that our DL was the best at stopping the run. Problem is, they let Phat Pat get old and didn't get anyone in to replace him.

But hey, we needed CB's right.:laugh:

I wouldn't worry. We're just in a rut. No team in the history of the league has been good every season. We're rebuilding, there's no reason to think we won't have a decent line again in the future. Starts with finding Hutch's replacement and getting a real Center

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089738

I wouldn't worry. We're just in a rut. No team in the history of the league has been good every season. We're rebuilding, there's no reason to think we won't have a decent line again in the future. Starts with finding Hutch's replacement and getting a real Center

Do you think we should replace Hutch this year?

Please define "Real Center".

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089763

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089738

I wouldn't worry. We're just in a rut. No team in the history of the league has been good every season. We're rebuilding, there's no reason to think we won't have a decent line again in the future. Starts with finding Hutch's replacement and getting a real Center

Do you think we should replace Hutch this year?

Please define "Real Center".

I don't think we should replace him this year, but we need to find a guy to learn the spot and take over. I'm sick of sticking rookies or 2nd year guys who suck in to replace all-pro players, expecting them to succeed then scratching our heads and wondering why they failed.

Real center is a guy who can handle a DT one on one. Sullivan can not do that.

A center should be smart, quick and strong. Should be able to make the line calls, then actually block his man. sullivan looks to have the mental aspect down alright, but he just gets overwhelmed by bigger T's

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089765

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089763

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089738

I wouldn't worry. We're just in a rut. No team in the history of the league has been good every season. We're rebuilding, there's no reason to think we won't have a decent line again in the future. Starts with finding Hutch's replacement and getting a real Center

Do you think we should replace Hutch this year?

Please define "Real Center".

I don't think we should replace him this year, but we need to find a guy to learn the spot and take over. I'm sick of sticking rookies or 2nd year guys who suck in to replace all-pro players, expecting them to succeed then scratching our heads and wondering why they failed.

I was hoping you would say that. I agree with the backup idea, but don't you think that is what we have Degeare for? Or are you off of him cause he didn't play at the NFL level this year as a rookie?

Real center is a guy who can handle a DT one on one. Sullivan can not do that.

A center should be smart, quick and strong. Should be able to make the line calls, then actually block his man. sullivan looks to have the mental aspect down alright, but he just gets overwhelmed by bigger T's

OK, I'm tracking, but that doesn't mean he isn't a "real" center. I just means he is a Center that is best suited for a ZB'ng scheme. In that scheme he should very seldom be matched up one on one with a big NT.

By scheme design, the G that is off the 3 Technique DT should be helping him with the 0 technique NT. Again, in 2009, with both Herrera and Hutch healthy, he looked good against teams like the Steelers. This year, with backups next to him, suffering from injuries, he looked like crap.

Doesn't matter. I just got hung up on the word "Real". He has to go if they are shifting away from the ZB'ng scheme. As you said, he can't match up alone.

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089768

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089765

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089763

Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089738

I wouldn't worry. We're just in a rut. No team in the history of the league has been good every season. We're rebuilding, there's no reason to think we won't have a decent line again in the future. Starts with finding Hutch's replacement and getting a real Center

Do you think we should replace Hutch this year?

Please define "Real Center".

I don't think we should replace him this year, but we need to find a guy to learn the spot and take over. I'm sick of sticking rookies or 2nd year guys who suck in to replace all-pro players, expecting them to succeed then scratching our heads and wondering why they failed.

I was hoping you would say that. I agree with the backup idea, but don't you think that is what we have Degeare for? Or are you off of him cause he didn't play at the NFL level this year as a rookie?

Real center is a guy who can handle a DT one on one. Sullivan can not do that.

A center should be smart, quick and strong. Should be able to make the line calls, then actually block his man. sullivan looks to have the mental aspect down alright, but he just gets overwhelmed by bigger T's

OK, I'm tracking, but that doesn't mean he isn't a "real" center. I just means he is a Center that is best suited for a ZB'ng scheme. In that scheme he should very seldom be matched up one on one with a big NT.

By scheme design, the G that is off the 3 Technique DT should be helping him with the 0 technique NT. Again, in 2009, with both Herrera and Hutch healthy, he looked good against teams like the Steelers. This year, with backups next to him, suffering from injuries, he looked like crap.

Doesn't matter. I just got hung up on the word "Real". He has to go if they are shifting away from the ZB'ng scheme. As you said, he can't match up alone.

Good discussion points here. I like the idea that you build a team from the lines. The fact of the matter is that we as a team thought we could stand pat with our roster based on recent successes along with the injury bug. Sully, Herrera, Hutch were all dinged up this year. This group certainly has underperformed. I think a healthy competition at most every line spot would help.

As to the D Line I have thought that we have spent a little too much effort in the last 5 years or so on the DE position and ignoring the DT spot. While the Williams wall has been formidable, at least half of it has gotten old. I believe we should look to add to both OL and DL in the draft.

I am excited to see the difference in how the line performs this year with the ability to go and maul some people instead of focusing on a technique heavy ZB scheme. Our lines greatest attribute is size and IMO ZB negates much of that if not executed well.

They had a real center, and then they let Matt Birk get away.

Originally Posted by "rednorsk" #1089864

They had a real center, and then they let Matt Birk get away.

Well, he did snap the ball low to TJ once, and he did miss that one block when he was pulling, so it's obvious his time has come, and since our last good center was easily replaced by Birk, Logic dictates the exact same thing would happen again.

Did I cover all the bases Marty?

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089701

Originally Posted by "delviking" #1089695

I always felt the true Identity of our beloved Vikings has always been our lines. The D-line has always been feared to a degree with the likes of Doleman, Allen, Randle, Williams Wall, Eller, Lawson, Marshall, Page etc. Also our O-line with the likes of Stringer RIP, Birk, Yary, Lowedermilk, Dixon, Mcdaniel, etc.
It seems that with Todays Vikings we don't have that same feel of our opponents fearing our Lines. Our D-line has still been good to great but not super feared as in the old days, And our O-line has been a bit of a wash even slightly before Birk left. Im not totally blaming the coaching staff of the past few years but it does seem that Childress did a great deal to destroy our Identity, by not getting either Line to Dominate year in and year out, Like the old days people feared Doleman, they feared Randle when Randle was the only guy to stop. Our Quarterbacks used to be able to have time to look down field. One of the reasons i think weve had so many older Veterans come here and still compete at a high level was because they knew our O-line could protect them. Now i fear for whoever is under center.
Its not all the players fault Ryan cook showed hes a decent Guard/Center and should never been out at tackle, Hutch is still a good to great guard just getting up there in years. For the O-line i really think the scheme was terrible call since even the player brought in were to big to be really effective at it other than maybe Sullivan.

My hope is Fraziers realizes that our D and O lines have been a major factor of this teams 5th best winning percentage over it history.

Just been thinking about the large number of Great lineman who have been part of this team.

Wasn't that long ago that our DL was the best at stopping the run. Problem is, they let Phat Pat get old and didn't get anyone in to replace him.

But hey, we needed CB's right.:laugh:

See...we CAN agree, Marr. I think that Pat needs to be replaced too. His drop off from '09 to '10 was significant.

But, at the same time, we DO need Corners. We have the breakable kind...we need the durable kind.

Caine