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  1. #21
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Sorry V!
    No offense intended...Now that you point it out, I do recall agreeing with you on this in a thread somewhere during last season...But, just based on this thread, it seemed you were arguing for closer to 50/50 and Marr was saying 60/40.
    I guess I missed the whole its not even part of the argument.

    Maybe, the larger average per catch than carry balances it out yardage wise...depending on what you'r looking to "balance."

    5.3 rush avg * 60 plays = 318 yards
    6.8 pass avg * 40 plays= 272

    5.3 rush avg * 55 plays = 291.5
    6.8 pass avg * 45 plays = 306

    Another reason the league passes more on average...multiplying by a bigger average give a bigger total.
    Umm, thats a difference of 7 yards. So miniscule that you are better off relying on the strength of your team. Our running game is more consistent or so in more likely to generate the 5.3 yards.

    Furthermore, The pass average stat is a bit misleading, it does not take into account sacks, or interceptions, which should be treated as a bigger negative than just an incompletion. The passing average is still higher than running, but much closer. I calculate 5.8 still without taking interceptions into account (not sure how to accurately do that).
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #22
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    What the article tells me is that a good running game makes the passing game better and vice versa.
    If the defense is playing back so they can triple team Randy, your average yards per rush attempt go up since there's not much resistance in the middle of the field.
    If your superstar RB draws 8 or 9 into the box, your average WRs should be able to get more open down field more often.
    I think that's why they call it a TEAM sport

    Couldn't agree more Marr.
    Seems to me nearly every personell move we've made since Wilf took over has leaned toward running the ball and playing defense.
    Our passing game has been on the back burner with rookies and castoffs at WR and QB, but we're about to see (hopefully!!) that youth come into their own, and the WCO people have been looking for finally come out of the closet.
    I think there's a strong possibility that we have only seen about 10% of the Chiller's KAO.
    So far, it looks to me, that our offensive game plan is similar to tried and true Steelers football...Defense, Running, and lots of cool trick/gadget plays to keep the defense guessing.

    That current ratio of 45 run/55 pass is somewhat due to all the rules leaning toward the passing game and scoring points on flashy plays to sell more NFL.
    With our personell, I'd like to see the opposite (55 run/45 pass) or closer to Marr's 60/40...

    IMHO it is usually a mistake to try and gear your entire game plan toward your opponent's weakness when your strength leans the other way...Case in point: @Detriot week2 2007.
    First of all, how dare you call it "Marr's 60/40." I am extremely angry about that comment. When Marr was arguing that the WCO uses the pass to set up the run, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was saying Bobby Wade was going to open up our passing game and surprise people, I was saying 60/40. When other posters were saying we ran too much, we were predictable, and the run game was becoming ineffective, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was suggesting Chilly was a good coach, I wanted Marty Schottenheimer (Martyball = 60/40). Even to this day Marr argues that 60/40 is a balanced offense (the simple fact that 60 does not equal 40 obviously means it is not balanced) when it is not. It is run heavy, which is the playbook I use when playing with the Vikings in Madden. It is not Marr's 60/40. It is MY 60/40.

    Anyways,

    Another fascinating part of the article is how strongly it supports the playaction pass. Passing against a Run Defense provides the greatest advantage for the offense. At the same time it explains why our pass defense is so bad. Maybe we key on the run too much and allow the offense to make use of the +9 advantage?

    I am beginning to think that we have finally found Childress' blueprint to offensive success.
    LOL, V is right.
    He is the one who said it, I just say its balanced and keep trying to convince him of it, however, I never argued that our scheme was to have the pass set up the run.


    Quite the contrary, I have always contended that we run to set up the pass and have hammered that home every chance I get......

    Good discussion (with lots of links) between me and Davike.
    Were has that guy been of late by the way?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...6613#msg746613

    Here is another one between me and Davike.....
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    Long story short, I think it would be pretty hard for you to find something were I said our scheme was a pass first offense.
    Heck, you can even find stuff were I argued that we needed a RB the year we drafted AD because CT broke down at the end of his first year, and a bunch of you argued that we needed a WR instead.
    ;D
    I think I have to have Marr's back on this one.


    16031

    Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: You're Brad Childress...what's your fix?
    on: November 01, 2006, 12:20:38 pm
    We need to fix the offense in the following areas:

    Offense
    a.
    Start with a balance offense (60 Run/40 Pass)
    or vice versa depending on other teams weakness.
    Childress needs to get a little more creative/agressive with his play calling.
    Even my 16 year old son can just about predict what they will call.
    b.
    Quit checking down 90 percent of the passing plays.
    Teams only have to defend 20 yards of the field because we can't/won't stretch the field.
    c.
    Move the pocket once in a while.
    I know Brad is slow, but he can still roll out.

    Defense
    a.
    If they are gonna blitz, blitz with more than 1.
    5 on 5 can be picked up.

    b.
    Throw in a couple of delayed blitzers
    c.
    Put a late hit on the QB as soon as you can.
    Take the 15 yards but put a hurting on him so he is a bit gunshy
    Grin

    Overall I am pretty happy with the team this year.
    Can't say it enough that we are doing better than most "Gurus" said we were going to do.
    I still think we will make the playoffs this year but we will be a one and out team.
    Offense just isn't getting it done nor will it with the current players we have.
    Hopefully we will draft wisely again next year and things will continue to get better.

    Sometimes your posts come back to make you look good ;D

  3. #23
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    What the article tells me is that a good running game makes the passing game better and vice versa.
    If the defense is playing back so they can triple team Randy, your average yards per rush attempt go up since there's not much resistance in the middle of the field.
    If your superstar RB draws 8 or 9 into the box, your average WRs should be able to get more open down field more often.
    I think that's why they call it a TEAM sport

    Couldn't agree more Marr.
    Seems to me nearly every personell move we've made since Wilf took over has leaned toward running the ball and playing defense.
    Our passing game has been on the back burner with rookies and castoffs at WR and QB, but we're about to see (hopefully!!) that youth come into their own, and the WCO people have been looking for finally come out of the closet.
    I think there's a strong possibility that we have only seen about 10% of the Chiller's KAO.
    So far, it looks to me, that our offensive game plan is similar to tried and true Steelers football...Defense, Running, and lots of cool trick/gadget plays to keep the defense guessing.

    That current ratio of 45 run/55 pass is somewhat due to all the rules leaning toward the passing game and scoring points on flashy plays to sell more NFL.
    With our personell, I'd like to see the opposite (55 run/45 pass) or closer to Marr's 60/40...

    IMHO it is usually a mistake to try and gear your entire game plan toward your opponent's weakness when your strength leans the other way...Case in point: @Detriot week2 2007.
    First of all, how dare you call it "Marr's 60/40." I am extremely angry about that comment. When Marr was arguing that the WCO uses the pass to set up the run, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was saying Bobby Wade was going to open up our passing game and surprise people, I was saying 60/40. When other posters were saying we ran too much, we were predictable, and the run game was becoming ineffective, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was suggesting Chilly was a good coach, I wanted Marty Schottenheimer (Martyball = 60/40). Even to this day Marr argues that 60/40 is a balanced offense (the simple fact that 60 does not equal 40 obviously means it is not balanced) when it is not. It is run heavy, which is the playbook I use when playing with the Vikings in Madden. It is not Marr's 60/40. It is MY 60/40.

    Anyways,

    Another fascinating part of the article is how strongly it supports the playaction pass. Passing against a Run Defense provides the greatest advantage for the offense. At the same time it explains why our pass defense is so bad. Maybe we key on the run too much and allow the offense to make use of the +9 advantage?

    I am beginning to think that we have finally found Childress' blueprint to offensive success.
    LOL, V is right.
    He is the one who said it, I just say its balanced and keep trying to convince him of it, however, I never argued that our scheme was to have the pass set up the run.


    Quite the contrary, I have always contended that we run to set up the pass and have hammered that home every chance I get......

    Good discussion (with lots of links) between me and Davike.

    Were has that guy been of late by the way?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...6613#msg746613

    Here is another one between me and Davike.....
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    Long story short, I think it would be pretty hard for you to find something were I said our scheme was a pass first offense.
    Heck, you can even find stuff were I argued that we needed a RB the year we drafted AD because CT broke down at the end of his first year, and a bunch of you argued that we needed a WR instead.

    ;D
    I think I have to have Marr's back on this one.


    16031

    Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: You're Brad Childress...what's your fix?

    on: November 01, 2006, 12:20:38 pm
    We need to fix the offense in the following areas:

    Offense
    a.
    Start with a balance offense (60 Run/40 Pass)
    or vice versa depending on other teams weakness.
    Childress needs to get a little more creative/agressive with his play calling.
    Even my 16 year old son can just about predict what they will call.
    b.
    Quit checking down 90 percent of the passing plays.
    Teams only have to defend 20 yards of the field because we can't/won't stretch the field.
    c.
    Move the pocket once in a while.
    I know Brad is slow, but he can still roll out.

    Defense
    a.
    If they are gonna blitz, blitz with more than 1.
    5 on 5 can be picked up.


    b.
    Throw in a couple of delayed blitzers
    c.
    Put a late hit on the QB as soon as you can.
    Take the 15 yards but put a hurting on him so he is a bit gunshy
    Grin

    Overall I am pretty happy with the team this year.
    Can't say it enough that we are doing better than most "Gurus" said we were going to do.
    I still think we will make the playoffs this year but we will be a one and out team.
    Offense just isn't getting it done nor will it with the current players we have.

    Hopefully we will draft wisely again next year and things will continue to get better.

    Sometimes your posts come back to make you look good ;D
    One post from a routine flip-flopper is not enough. I have been thirsting for a run heavy offense when Tice was still coach and standing by it, even in moments of failure, ever since.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  4. #24
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    What the article tells me is that a good running game makes the passing game better and vice versa.
    If the defense is playing back so they can triple team Randy, your average yards per rush attempt go up since there's not much resistance in the middle of the field.
    If your superstar RB draws 8 or 9 into the box, your average WRs should be able to get more open down field more often.
    I think that's why they call it a TEAM sport

    Couldn't agree more Marr.
    Seems to me nearly every personell move we've made since Wilf took over has leaned toward running the ball and playing defense.
    Our passing game has been on the back burner with rookies and castoffs at WR and QB, but we're about to see (hopefully!!) that youth come into their own, and the WCO people have been looking for finally come out of the closet.
    I think there's a strong possibility that we have only seen about 10% of the Chiller's KAO.
    So far, it looks to me, that our offensive game plan is similar to tried and true Steelers football...Defense, Running, and lots of cool trick/gadget plays to keep the defense guessing.

    That current ratio of 45 run/55 pass is somewhat due to all the rules leaning toward the passing game and scoring points on flashy plays to sell more NFL.
    With our personell, I'd like to see the opposite (55 run/45 pass) or closer to Marr's 60/40...

    IMHO it is usually a mistake to try and gear your entire game plan toward your opponent's weakness when your strength leans the other way...Case in point: @Detriot week2 2007.
    First of all, how dare you call it "Marr's 60/40." I am extremely angry about that comment. When Marr was arguing that the WCO uses the pass to set up the run, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was saying Bobby Wade was going to open up our passing game and surprise people, I was saying 60/40. When other posters were saying we ran too much, we were predictable, and the run game was becoming ineffective, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was suggesting Chilly was a good coach, I wanted Marty Schottenheimer (Martyball = 60/40). Even to this day Marr argues that 60/40 is a balanced offense (the simple fact that 60 does not equal 40 obviously means it is not balanced) when it is not. It is run heavy, which is the playbook I use when playing with the Vikings in Madden. It is not Marr's 60/40. It is MY 60/40.

    Anyways,

    Another fascinating part of the article is how strongly it supports the playaction pass. Passing against a Run Defense provides the greatest advantage for the offense. At the same time it explains why our pass defense is so bad. Maybe we key on the run too much and allow the offense to make use of the +9 advantage?

    I am beginning to think that we have finally found Childress' blueprint to offensive success.
    LOL, V is right.
    He is the one who said it, I just say its balanced and keep trying to convince him of it, however, I never argued that our scheme was to have the pass set up the run.


    Quite the contrary, I have always contended that we run to set up the pass and have hammered that home every chance I get......

    Good discussion (with lots of links) between me and Davike.
    Were has that guy been of late by the way?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...6613#msg746613

    Here is another one between me and Davike.....
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    Long story short, I think it would be pretty hard for you to find something were I said our scheme was a pass first offense.
    Heck, you can even find stuff were I argued that we needed a RB the year we drafted AD because CT broke down at the end of his first year, and a bunch of you argued that we needed a WR instead.
    ;D
    I think I have to have Marr's back on this one.


    16031

    Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: You're Brad Childress...what's your fix?
    on: November 01, 2006, 12:20:38 pm
    We need to fix the offense in the following areas:

    Offense
    a.
    Start with a balance offense (60 Run/40 Pass)
    or vice versa depending on other teams weakness.
    Childress needs to get a little more creative/agressive with his play calling.
    Even my 16 year old son can just about predict what they will call.
    b.
    Quit checking down 90 percent of the passing plays.
    Teams only have to defend 20 yards of the field because we can't/won't stretch the field.
    c.
    Move the pocket once in a while.
    I know Brad is slow, but he can still roll out.

    Defense
    a.
    If they are gonna blitz, blitz with more than 1.
    5 on 5 can be picked up.

    b.
    Throw in a couple of delayed blitzers
    c.
    Put a late hit on the QB as soon as you can.
    Take the 15 yards but put a hurting on him so he is a bit gunshy
    Grin

    Overall I am pretty happy with the team this year.
    Can't say it enough that we are doing better than most "Gurus" said we were going to do.
    I still think we will make the playoffs this year but we will be a one and out team.
    Offense just isn't getting it done nor will it with the current players we have.
    Hopefully we will draft wisely again next year and things will continue to get better.

    Sometimes your posts come back to make you look good ;D
    One post from a routine flip-flopper is not enough. I have been thirsting for a run heavy offense when Tice was still coach and standing by it, even in moments of failure, ever since.
    I know you have and I have been right there too.

  5. #25
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    Thank you for sharing, I have added this site to my favorites.
    Here is an objective, intellectual, and obviously passionate writer...vs many of the hacks published on the internet.
    His premise is factual, unbiased, and worthy of consideration.


    Cajun hit the nail on the head with the comment that the optimal ratio is the one that makes you win.
    Remember the game that Drew Bledsoe set the attempts and completions record vs the Vikes when Parcells was his coach?
    If memory serves me, Parcells is a "running game" coach, however, his running game sucked and the Vikes pass defense sucked worse...Bledsoe pitched the ball 73 times, Patriots won the game with an inferior Team and a superior game plan.


    Yes, we have Adrian Peterson.
    Yes, he is easily a top 3 back in today's game.
    Yes, against some teams, running the ball down their throats will break their will.
    Adrian Peterson, LTII, and Brian Westbrook (we are waiting, Reggie Bush), are three current running backs who can score from anywhere on the field, therefore, you need to put the ball in their hands anyway you can, anyway you can.


    I like this analysis from the article, and love Ron Jaworski's point..."you must be able to run.
    Scoring points comes from the passing game."
    Mathematically, over time, the optimal ratio is clearly irrefutable, after all, it's math.
    That said, further analysis, I hypothesize, would support Jaworski's point.
    It also points to the obvious, when, if TJack steps up, this Team is gonna be badass.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  6. #26
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "MaxVike" wrote:
    Thank you for sharing, I have added this site to my favorites.
    Here is an objective, intellectual, and obviously passionate writer...vs many of the hacks published on the internet.
    His premise is factual, unbiased, and worthy of consideration.


    Cajun hit the nail on the head with the comment that the optimal ratio is the one that makes you win.
    Remember the game that Drew Bledsoe set the attempts and completions record vs the Vikes when Parcells was his coach?
    If memory serves me, Parcells is a "running game" coach, however, his running game sucked and the Vikes pass defense sucked worse...Bledsoe pitched the ball 73 times, Patriots won the game with an inferior Team and a superior game plan.


    Yes, we have Adrian Peterson.
    Yes, he is easily a top 3 back in today's game.
    Yes, against some teams, running the ball down their throats will break their will.
    Adrian Peterson, LTII, and Brian Westbrook (we are waiting, Reggie Bush), are three current running backs who can score from anywhere on the field, therefore, you need to put the ball in their hands anyway you can, anyway you can.


    I like this analysis from the article, and love Ron Jaworski's point..."you must be able to run.
    Scoring points comes from the passing game."
    Mathematically, over time, the optimal ratio is clearly irrefutable, after all, it's math.
    That said, further analysis, I hypothesize, would support Jaworski's point.
    It also points to the obvious, when, if TJack steps up, this Team is gonna be badass.
    I remember that well. That game pissed me off for the rest of the season.

  7. #27
    HughC is offline Rookie
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    Thanks for finding that article V, that was very interesting - as have most of the comments on this thread.

    Just thought I'd throw this link out to anyone that's interested in another analysis.
    Unfortunately they come to the conclusion that right now it's better to have a great passing team than a great running team, but perhaps that may change somewhat with the rules changes regarding receivers being pushed out of bounds this year.
    They also dispute the theory about the importance of establishing the running game that is heard by announcers for five months starting with the first Sunday weekend in September.

    Unless I overlooked it, there was no mention of special teams.
    I feel that is a portion of the game that is far too often not taken in to account with stastical analysis such as this.
    Hopefully the Vikings will excel in this area of the game this season.

    My final analysis is that the most important ratio is that of wins to losses.

  8. #28
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    There is only ONE optimal run/pass ratio...the ratio that beats that day's opponent.
    Anything else is artificial.
    In-game adjustment of the ratio is what wins games...and if Chilly can master the in-game adjustment, we wont even care what the ratio ends up being.
    I think Caj has a point here..
    but. my 2 cents would say.

    1. The first 20 odd plays or how ever many scripted plays we run should have a basis % of each..

    2. from say mid 2nd qtr or begning 2nd half. based on score, team movement, and game time effects of those plays. each game will have it's own % of pass/run play selections. Here is were you can make the arguement over.. do we become re-active or pro-active.

    re-active would mean we adjust to what the D is giving us.. if they are stacking 9 in the box.. start passing more..
    if they are leaving the front open for runs.. let AD/CT eat um alive.

    if we want to remain Pro-active. then we make simple adjustments to our scheme's bsed on what was working.. come out in the 2nd half and run our plays.. and force the D to react to us.


    either way.
    I believe it will always be that the first half should be based on a solid standard. and then 2nd half is where the ratio's come into play.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "V" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    What the article tells me is that a good running game makes the passing game better and vice versa.
    If the defense is playing back so they can triple team Randy, your average yards per rush attempt go up since there's not much resistance in the middle of the field.
    If your superstar RB draws 8 or 9 into the box, your average WRs should be able to get more open down field more often.
    I think that's why they call it a TEAM sport

    Couldn't agree more Marr.
    Seems to me nearly every personell move we've made since Wilf took over has leaned toward running the ball and playing defense.
    Our passing game has been on the back burner with rookies and castoffs at WR and QB, but we're about to see (hopefully!!) that youth come into their own, and the WCO people have been looking for finally come out of the closet.
    I think there's a strong possibility that we have only seen about 10% of the Chiller's KAO.
    So far, it looks to me, that our offensive game plan is similar to tried and true Steelers football...Defense, Running, and lots of cool trick/gadget plays to keep the defense guessing.

    That current ratio of 45 run/55 pass is somewhat due to all the rules leaning toward the passing game and scoring points on flashy plays to sell more NFL.
    With our personell, I'd like to see the opposite (55 run/45 pass) or closer to Marr's 60/40...

    IMHO it is usually a mistake to try and gear your entire game plan toward your opponent's weakness when your strength leans the other way...Case in point: @Detriot week2 2007.
    First of all, how dare you call it "Marr's 60/40." I am extremely angry about that comment. When Marr was arguing that the WCO uses the pass to set up the run, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was saying Bobby Wade was going to open up our passing game and surprise people, I was saying 60/40. When other posters were saying we ran too much, we were predictable, and the run game was becoming ineffective, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was suggesting Chilly was a good coach, I wanted Marty Schottenheimer (Martyball = 60/40). Even to this day Marr argues that 60/40 is a balanced offense (the simple fact that 60 does not equal 40 obviously means it is not balanced) when it is not. It is run heavy, which is the playbook I use when playing with the Vikings in Madden. It is not Marr's 60/40. It is MY 60/40.

    Anyways,

    Another fascinating part of the article is how strongly it supports the playaction pass. Passing against a Run Defense provides the greatest advantage for the offense. At the same time it explains why our pass defense is so bad. Maybe we key on the run too much and allow the offense to make use of the +9 advantage?

    I am beginning to think that we have finally found Childress' blueprint to offensive success.
    LOL, V is right.
    He is the one who said it, I just say its balanced and keep trying to convince him of it, however, I never argued that our scheme was to have the pass set up the run.


    Quite the contrary, I have always contended that we run to set up the pass and have hammered that home every chance I get......

    Good discussion (with lots of links) between me and Davike.

    Were has that guy been of late by the way?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...6613#msg746613

    Here is another one between me and Davike.....
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    Long story short, I think it would be pretty hard for you to find something were I said our scheme was a pass first offense.
    Heck, you can even find stuff were I argued that we needed a RB the year we drafted AD because CT broke down at the end of his first year, and a bunch of you argued that we needed a WR instead.

    ;D
    I think I have to have Marr's back on this one.


    16031

    Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: You're Brad Childress...what's your fix?

    on: November 01, 2006, 12:20:38 pm
    We need to fix the offense in the following areas:

    Offense
    a.
    Start with a balance offense (60 Run/40 Pass)
    or vice versa depending on other teams weakness.
    Childress needs to get a little more creative/agressive with his play calling.
    Even my 16 year old son can just about predict what they will call.
    b.
    Quit checking down 90 percent of the passing plays.
    Teams only have to defend 20 yards of the field because we can't/won't stretch the field.
    c.
    Move the pocket once in a while.
    I know Brad is slow, but he can still roll out.

    Defense
    a.
    If they are gonna blitz, blitz with more than 1.
    5 on 5 can be picked up.


    b.
    Throw in a couple of delayed blitzers
    c.
    Put a late hit on the QB as soon as you can.
    Take the 15 yards but put a hurting on him so he is a bit gunshy
    Grin

    Overall I am pretty happy with the team this year.
    Can't say it enough that we are doing better than most "Gurus" said we were going to do.
    I still think we will make the playoffs this year but we will be a one and out team.
    Offense just isn't getting it done nor will it with the current players we have.

    Hopefully we will draft wisely again next year and things will continue to get better.

    Sometimes your posts come back to make you look good ;D
    One post from a routine flip-flopper is not enough. I have been thirsting for a run heavy offense when Tice was still coach and standing by it, even in moments of failure, ever since.
    One post my ass...... ;D

    I gave a couple of links to my posts and can give more.
    Just cause I like the WCO concept does not mean I want us to become a pass happy team.

    Gimme a balanced offense (60% run/40% pass) and I will be happy anyday.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: The Optimal Run-Pass Ratio (Marrdro and I go at it again).

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    What the article tells me is that a good running game makes the passing game better and vice versa.
    If the defense is playing back so they can triple team Randy, your average yards per rush attempt go up since there's not much resistance in the middle of the field.
    If your superstar RB draws 8 or 9 into the box, your average WRs should be able to get more open down field more often.
    I think that's why they call it a TEAM sport

    Couldn't agree more Marr.
    Seems to me nearly every personell move we've made since Wilf took over has leaned toward running the ball and playing defense.
    Our passing game has been on the back burner with rookies and castoffs at WR and QB, but we're about to see (hopefully!!) that youth come into their own, and the WCO people have been looking for finally come out of the closet.
    I think there's a strong possibility that we have only seen about 10% of the Chiller's KAO.
    So far, it looks to me, that our offensive game plan is similar to tried and true Steelers football...Defense, Running, and lots of cool trick/gadget plays to keep the defense guessing.

    That current ratio of 45 run/55 pass is somewhat due to all the rules leaning toward the passing game and scoring points on flashy plays to sell more NFL.
    With our personell, I'd like to see the opposite (55 run/45 pass) or closer to Marr's 60/40...

    IMHO it is usually a mistake to try and gear your entire game plan toward your opponent's weakness when your strength leans the other way...Case in point: @Detriot week2 2007.
    First of all, how dare you call it "Marr's 60/40." I am extremely angry about that comment. When Marr was arguing that the WCO uses the pass to set up the run, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was saying Bobby Wade was going to open up our passing game and surprise people, I was saying 60/40. When other posters were saying we ran too much, we were predictable, and the run game was becoming ineffective, I was saying 60/40. When Marr was suggesting Chilly was a good coach, I wanted Marty Schottenheimer (Martyball = 60/40). Even to this day Marr argues that 60/40 is a balanced offense (the simple fact that 60 does not equal 40 obviously means it is not balanced) when it is not. It is run heavy, which is the playbook I use when playing with the Vikings in Madden. It is not Marr's 60/40. It is MY 60/40.

    Anyways,

    Another fascinating part of the article is how strongly it supports the playaction pass. Passing against a Run Defense provides the greatest advantage for the offense. At the same time it explains why our pass defense is so bad. Maybe we key on the run too much and allow the offense to make use of the +9 advantage?

    I am beginning to think that we have finally found Childress' blueprint to offensive success.
    LOL, V is right.
    He is the one who said it, I just say its balanced and keep trying to convince him of it, however, I never argued that our scheme was to have the pass set up the run.


    Quite the contrary, I have always contended that we run to set up the pass and have hammered that home every chance I get......

    Good discussion (with lots of links) between me and Davike.

    Were has that guy been of late by the way?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...6613#msg746613

    Here is another one between me and Davike.....
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...7982#msg727982

    Long story short, I think it would be pretty hard for you to find something were I said our scheme was a pass first offense.
    Heck, you can even find stuff were I argued that we needed a RB the year we drafted AD because CT broke down at the end of his first year, and a bunch of you argued that we needed a WR instead.

    ;D
    I think I have to have Marr's back on this one.


    16031

    Vikings & Football Talk / Vikings Fan Forum / Re: You're Brad Childress...what's your fix?

    on: November 01, 2006, 12:20:38 pm
    We need to fix the offense in the following areas:

    Offense
    a.
    Start with a balance offense (60 Run/40 Pass)
    or vice versa depending on other teams weakness.
    Childress needs to get a little more creative/agressive with his play calling.
    Even my 16 year old son can just about predict what they will call.
    b.
    Quit checking down 90 percent of the passing plays.
    Teams only have to defend 20 yards of the field because we can't/won't stretch the field.
    c.
    Move the pocket once in a while.
    I know Brad is slow, but he can still roll out.

    Defense
    a.
    If they are gonna blitz, blitz with more than 1.
    5 on 5 can be picked up.


    b.
    Throw in a couple of delayed blitzers
    c.
    Put a late hit on the QB as soon as you can.
    Take the 15 yards but put a hurting on him so he is a bit gunshy
    Grin

    Overall I am pretty happy with the team this year.
    Can't say it enough that we are doing better than most "Gurus" said we were going to do.
    I still think we will make the playoffs this year but we will be a one and out team.
    Offense just isn't getting it done nor will it with the current players we have.

    Hopefully we will draft wisely again next year and things will continue to get better.

    Sometimes your posts come back to make you look good ;D
    I get lucky sometimes.
    Heck we all do, even V.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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