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  1. #141
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Onterrio and NFL Hypocrisy

    ColoradoVike:

    POST 1: I loved it. Had the issue been approached from THAT direction initially, I doubt we'd be debating now.

    POST 2: THC in the blood was used to prove possession (You have to possess it to smoke it, right?). Wisonsin law is sort of tricky. Your first offense is a misdemeanor, but your second is actually a Felony. The City of Madison actually allows the first offense to be a city ordinance violation (Like a parking ticket), but the second is still a felony.

    Since Wisconsin has no minimum, proving simple possession (by use of blood samples) suffices. I'm not sure that would work quite so well in states with a measurable minimum...but then I'm fairly certain that those states have measurable minimums to determine severity of penalty, and that possession of even a seed would suffice to get a charge (If the law were read closely).

    I noticed that the NORML site wasn't 100% accurate on Wisconsin's law. Because it seems to me that states with a minimum measurable amount requirement would - in essence - be legalizing all quantities below said amount. It would be interesting to see if there is more to some of those State's laws than what is on the NORML site.

    Even in Minnesota, possession of "Less than 42.5g" is a misdemeanor, and THC in the blood would prove at least that, so it could likely be used there as well.

    Caine

  2. #142
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Onterrio and NFL Hypocrisy

    Oh, yeah, I forgot...

    The underage marriage thing was not used to show any type of connection between that and weed, it was used to illustraite the fact that what is legal and acceptable in one location isn't so here. I grabbed that one because it was the first to spring to mind that was really easy to show a significant difference between foreign and Domestic laws.

    I apologize to any who believed that I was drawing a connection between users of weed and child molesters...such was not my intent.

    Caine

  3. #143
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Onterrio and NFL Hypocrisy

    "Caine" wrote:
    Oh, yeah, I forgot...

    The underage marriage thing was not used to show any type of connection between that and weed, it was used to illustraite the fact that what is legal and acceptable in one location isn't so here. I grabbed that one because it was the first to spring to mind that was really easy to show a significant difference between foreign and Domestic laws.

    I apologize to any who believed that I was drawing a connection between users of weed and child molesters...such was not my intent.

    Caine
    As one alleged child molester would say, "That's not weed, it's Jesus herb!"
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  4. #144
    nsavarirayan is offline Rookie
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    Re: Onterrio and NFL Hypocrisy

    "ColoradoVike" wrote:
    yep, it's a fine mess indeed.

    While it would be interesting to experiment with a society based on the "i have a right to do whatever i want to my body" quasi-Libertarian philosophy, that is not the case in the US. In fact, you dont, de facto, have a right to take your own life. Those who attempt suicide, but fail, are institutionalized to prevent further attempts. Is this Unfair? In some cases, sure. But, the history of "freedom" in the US is a history of tension between balancing the right of the individual to act freely and concern for the common good. At different political moments, policies are often made that weigh one more heavily than the other. For instance, the Patriot Act definitely sacrifices individual rights in favor of benefitting the common good -- i.e., preventing mass death and terror in the future. So in the case of marihuana, it has been so villified --deservedly or not-- such that at different moments over the past 70 years it has been deemed politically appropriate to outlaw the substance and restrict individual freedoms in the process. C'est la vie.

    The rights angle as support for marijuana gets pretty tricky and can traverse a slippery slope for reasons Caine outlines.

    I think the societal/medical, environmental, and economic benefits that marijuana offers are probably better platforms on which to rest the legalization argument. Most of all, I think it makes more sense to serve the common good by legalizing it and regulating it, just like gambling has been.

    Moreoever, the presence of marihuana in the (informal) economy has never ceased. It's an important medicine and it is a popularly used recreational substance. And it could be a valuable renewable resource in the production of textiles and paper, and the oil from its seeds have many industrial and nutritional applications. For many reasons, the marihuana issue likely wont go away. Keeping it illegal does more harm to society than legalizing it. I understand that as a drug, it is abused by some folks, and has facilitated destructive relationships. But, part of that issue is psychological/biological--some individuals who abuse it would have abused another drug, marihuana is not the causal factor, but an enabler in this case. And part of the issue is social, since one has to turn to the black market to get marihuana, one can be (unnecessarily) exposed to behaviors that are violent and destructive (e.g., gangs). Legalizing it would help to address, much more directly and effectively, these social and psychological ills of the drug. For instance, if it were legal, finding and receiving help from a professional trained to assist you would be much easier and can be made affordable, that is insurance companies can cover treatment.

    To be clear, I'm not advocating the tobacco and alcohol are legal so make pot legal too argument. That is more rhetoric than substance. I believe it sould be regulated like those drugs because marihuana use, like tobacco, gambling, and alcohol, will not go away. To the extent that it is abused, its negative effects can be mitigated if it were legalized and taxed based on user fees (e.g., only tobacco users pay tobacco taxes). And unlike tobacco, cannibas actually has some very productive and socially benefitial uses.

    To sum what has become a very lengthy post, and I thank you for staying with me, I feel that criminalizing cannibas causes more harm to society than it supposedly prevents.
    Wow that was a very well said post! I missed a lot of good discussion over the last few days. Well I guess since I started this discussion maybe its time to end it and move on to pure football. But I really liked Co Vikes last post and think it is an excellent way to end this discussion. I hope to be discussing a lot of topics with you guys in the near future when the season gets closer - a lot of smart intelligent people are on these boards!!
    Go Vikes! And I can't wait for this season to start!!! I'm Outta Here!

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