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  1. #21
    Freya's Avatar
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    Re:The Official

    Prophet wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    Leslie Frazier is not who I thought he was.
    And neither is Jared Allen.

    =Z=
    Or Kevin Williams. Almost pissed that I spent money on his jersey.
    Never underestimate the power that Phat Pat brings to the field. They are a unit.
    Truth! I knew we were in trouble when they announced that PWill wasn't in the game.


    Personally, I don't think there is intelligent life on other planets. Why should other planets be any different from this one?

  2. #22
    ThorSPL's Avatar
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    Re:The Official

    Marrdro wrote:
    marstc09 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    #4kicksA$$ wrote:
    I don't know if you caught it or not but Chilly made the excuse that Winfield wasn't back in football shape yet in his press confrence.
    if he's not in football shape, then WHY IN THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?
    A few of us have been trying to say this for quite some time. Whinny (and Griff to some degree) is not a cover corner. He is best used in a Cover 2 scheme were he has the lattitude to hand his guy off and crash down in run support.
    Hard to do when your safeties are terrible about being in the right position. I think we need to make Winfield a safety next year and find a couple CBs. Should be our main focus in the 1st round or FA.
    LOL, you crack me up. Weren't you one of the cats who called me a chucklehead for thinking about moving Whinny to S last year?

    No way we go Rookie at CB. We need to get a FA, but I'm not sure how the staff will justify that seeings how they just spent on both Whinny and Griff.

    Besides, 1rst round is going to have to go to DT so that we can get someone in that can make our DL effective again. Like it or not, JK is a good backup at best and K-dub and JA are pretty much non factors when he isn't at least in the rotation.


    When do you propose we address QB???


    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

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  3. #23
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    Re:The Official

    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    #4kicksA$$ wrote:
    I don't know if you caught it or not but Chilly made the excuse that Winfield wasn't back in football shape yet in his press confrence.
    if he's not in football shape, then WHY IN THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?
    I think the whole "Ankle" limitation is crap. He wouldn't be out there if he wasn't healthy.

    A few of us have been trying to say this for quite some time. Whinny (and Griff to some degree) is not a cover corner. He is best used in a Cover 2 scheme were he has the lattitude to hand his guy off and crash down in run support.

    Why Leslie continues to dial up blitz schemes that expose our secondary instead of fixing the DL inability to get pressure on teh QB is beyond me.

    I'll know I sound a bit [strike]repetitive[/strike]Holmstrom here but I really think we need to revisit our scheme, especially our CB's.

    Griff might be serviceable as a cover corner if he doens't have to worry about the underneath stuff and is allowed just to stick with one guy, but Whinny won't do.

    Someone might just have to bump the "Whinny to S" idea when he does his "Roster Analysis" thread.
    When is the last time you saw him get burnt that bad? (not counting the panthers game) He's no shutdown corner, but he can usually hold his own. He was making poor mental mistakes, biting on routes that weren't there. It wasn't how he normally plays. I think somethings up.

    I've seen him get beat by a step, or lose jumpballs, its going to happen, as he's not the fastest or tallest, but the past two games were just embarassing. Was watching the game with my dad, and when he gave up that big comeback route in the 4th quarter, I recall the old man saying "I thought he was supposed to be good?", followed by "Was taht Winfield again?" on the long td in OT. Its not his norm.
    I tend to lean towards what Chucky thought on that play......

    All of the Vikes thought run, no one was playing the pass, ......My guess...... With everyone crashing down on the run, I think he wanted a little piece of it and got caught cheating a bit.
    We got all over Paymah's ass when he got beat on similar one on one coverage earlier in the year. Paymah was at least close to his man, although he didn't really know what to do when the ball came at him. As Marrdro stated, AW is not the fastest or the tallest and a 30 yard sprint to the end zone against a taller faster receiver will always go to the receiver. Frazier just simply should not let this happen, especially in the situation they were in...much more to lose than gain by selling out on a blitz.

    Griffin stands a much better chance of covering a guy for any distance, but even then, you better bring heat on the QB. Anytime we show this coverage, the QB will be licking his chops.

    Use AW for what he is best at, short zone coverage and run support. Same with Brinkley, use him for what he is best at, stopping the run, or possibly going after the QB. Brinkley will have more impact in putting pressure on the QB than trying to stay with a TE.
    I actually don't think that the call is that weird. You're all looking at this from a Vikings personel stand point, but the Bears had Aromashodu out there. Do you really want to blame Frazier for leaving Winfield, his best corner, one on one with Aromashodu, a practice squad hopper who has been nothing more than decent this year?

    You try to be aggressive, as Gould is one hell of a kicker and you don't want them to get any closer. Conventional wisdom has it that, with a QB who throws that much interceptions and some very mediocre receiver, they run it 3 times and just kick it. Especially Lovie's team. Of course you go with a blitz and hope that you guys can shut down the receivers. The thing that amazed me was that there wasn't more press coverage on that play. Especially with that Bears O-line.

    That said, I do agree that Winfield could use some safety help on regular plays, but this was a good call. Winfield just shouldn't have his eyes in the backfield when he's 1 on 1 in cover 0 (OR\r was it cover 1?).
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:The Official

    Freya wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    Leslie Frazier is not who I thought he was.
    And neither is Jared Allen.

    =Z=
    Or Kevin Williams. Almost pissed that I spent money on his jersey.
    Never underestimate the power that Phat Pat brings to the field. They are a unit.
    Truth! I knew we were in trouble when they announced that PWill wasn't in the game.
    Thats why we need to look at cats like this as our number one pick this year.......

    Dan Williams
    Gerald McCoy

    Or one of these in the second.....

    Jared Odrick
    Mike Neal
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:The Official

    ThorSPL wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    marstc09 wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    #4kicksA$$ wrote:
    I don't know if you caught it or not but Chilly made the excuse that Winfield wasn't back in football shape yet in his press confrence.
    if he's not in football shape, then WHY IN THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?
    A few of us have been trying to say this for quite some time. Whinny (and Griff to some degree) is not a cover corner. He is best used in a Cover 2 scheme were he has the lattitude to hand his guy off and crash down in run support.
    Hard to do when your safeties are terrible about being in the right position. I think we need to make Winfield a safety next year and find a couple CBs. Should be our main focus in the 1st round or FA.
    LOL, you crack me up. Weren't you one of the cats who called me a chucklehead for thinking about moving Whinny to S last year?

    No way we go Rookie at CB. We need to get a FA, but I'm not sure how the staff will justify that seeings how they just spent on both Whinny and Griff.

    Besides, 1rst round is going to have to go to DT so that we can get someone in that can make our DL effective again. Like it or not, JK is a good backup at best and K-dub and JA are pretty much non factors when he isn't at least in the rotation.


    When do you propose we address QB???
    We already did when we signed the Noodle to a two year contract.

    Aside from that, I currently am on the TJ bandwagon (again) and think we can go for a kid like Tim Hiller, Zac Robinson, Dan LeFevour, or Daryll Clark as a 2 year project.

    Shitcan Sage and JDB and hope the noodle gets you another year or the light comes on for TJ like it did for VY this year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Suick's Avatar
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    Re:The Official

    AW is one of the reasons our run defenses has been top tier for the past few years, and one of the reason our pass D has sucked $hit for the past few years.

    Also................

    Giving Cutler a day and a half to pick out a target doesn't help either
    I've been a Viking fan since I was just out of diapers, hopefully we get Super Bowl win before I go back in 'em.

  7. #27
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Re:The Official

    Yeah guys but I want to point out that when you depend on 4 d linemen to get past 6-7 guys in about 3 seconds, it ain't gonna happen. what will usually happen is K.W. gets doubled and J.A. does to. why else is ray edwards having such a good season. they need to blitz weakside more where the quarterback is exposed... may I add that in the NFL today... teams have become pass happy.. ex. steelers, ravens, broncos w/ orton. there aren't many true run first teams anymore and if there are, they are no where near the playoffs or a threat. Think about it. Cincy is a run first team and we raped them. arizona is a pass team, they raped us. Carolina I have no comment to for our Run D couldn't stop stewart. i wish we had EJ so badly.
    None

  8. #28
    Suick's Avatar
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    Re:The Official

    Rockmolder wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    #4kicksA$$ wrote:
    I don't know if you caught it or not but Chilly made the excuse that Winfield wasn't back in football shape yet in his press confrence.
    if he's not in football shape, then WHY IN THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?
    I think the whole "Ankle" limitation is crap. He wouldn't be out there if he wasn't healthy.

    A few of us have been trying to say this for quite some time. Whinny (and Griff to some degree) is not a cover corner. He is best used in a Cover 2 scheme were he has the lattitude to hand his guy off and crash down in run support.

    Why Leslie continues to dial up blitz schemes that expose our secondary instead of fixing the DL inability to get pressure on teh QB is beyond me.

    I'll know I sound a bit [strike]repetitive[/strike]Holmstrom here but I really think we need to revisit our scheme, especially our CB's.

    Griff might be serviceable as a cover corner if he doens't have to worry about the underneath stuff and is allowed just to stick with one guy, but Whinny won't do.

    Someone might just have to bump the "Whinny to S" idea when he does his "Roster Analysis" thread.
    When is the last time you saw him get burnt that bad? (not counting the panthers game) He's no shutdown corner, but he can usually hold his own. He was making poor mental mistakes, biting on routes that weren't there. It wasn't how he normally plays. I think somethings up.

    I've seen him get beat by a step, or lose jumpballs, its going to happen, as he's not the fastest or tallest, but the past two games were just embarassing. Was watching the game with my dad, and when he gave up that big comeback route in the 4th quarter, I recall the old man saying "I thought he was supposed to be good?", followed by "Was taht Winfield again?" on the long td in OT. Its not his norm.
    I tend to lean towards what Chucky thought on that play......

    All of the Vikes thought run, no one was playing the pass, ......My guess...... With everyone crashing down on the run, I think he wanted a little piece of it and got caught cheating a bit.
    We got all over Paymah's ass when he got beat on similar one on one coverage earlier in the year. Paymah was at least close to his man, although he didn't really know what to do when the ball came at him. As Marrdro stated, AW is not the fastest or the tallest and a 30 yard sprint to the end zone against a taller faster receiver will always go to the receiver. Frazier just simply should not let this happen, especially in the situation they were in...much more to lose than gain by selling out on a blitz.

    Griffin stands a much better chance of covering a guy for any distance, but even then, you better bring heat on the QB. Anytime we show this coverage, the QB will be licking his chops.

    Use AW for what he is best at, short zone coverage and run support. Same with Brinkley, use him for what he is best at, stopping the run, or possibly going after the QB. Brinkley will have more impact in putting pressure on the QB than trying to stay with a TE.
    I actually don't think that the call is that weird. You're all looking at this from a Vikings personel stand point, but the Bears had Aromashodu out there. Do you really want to blame Frazier for leaving Winfield, his best corner, one on one with Aromashodu, a practice squad hopper who has been nothing more than decent this year?

    You try to be aggressive, as Gould is one hell of a kicker and you don't want them to get any closer. Conventional wisdom has it that, with a QB who throws that much interceptions and some very mediocre receiver, they run it 3 times and just kick it. Especially Lovie's team. Of course you go with a blitz and hope that you guys can shut down the receivers. The thing that amazed me was that there wasn't more press coverage on that play. Especially with that Bears O-line.

    That said, I do agree that Winfield could use some safety help on regular plays, but this was a good call. Winfield just shouldn't have his eyes in the backfield when he's 1 on 1 in cover 0 (OR\r was it cover 1?).


    I'll rate Griffin a better pass defender
    I've been a Viking fan since I was just out of diapers, hopefully we get Super Bowl win before I go back in 'em.

  9. #29
    Join Date
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    Re:The Official

    Suick wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    #4kicksA$$ wrote:
    I don't know if you caught it or not but Chilly made the excuse that Winfield wasn't back in football shape yet in his press confrence.
    if he's not in football shape, then WHY IN THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?
    I think the whole "Ankle" limitation is crap. He wouldn't be out there if he wasn't healthy.

    A few of us have been trying to say this for quite some time. Whinny (and Griff to some degree) is not a cover corner. He is best used in a Cover 2 scheme were he has the lattitude to hand his guy off and crash down in run support.

    Why Leslie continues to dial up blitz schemes that expose our secondary instead of fixing the DL inability to get pressure on teh QB is beyond me.

    I'll know I sound a bit [strike]repetitive[/strike]Holmstrom here but I really think we need to revisit our scheme, especially our CB's.

    Griff might be serviceable as a cover corner if he doens't have to worry about the underneath stuff and is allowed just to stick with one guy, but Whinny won't do.

    Someone might just have to bump the "Whinny to S" idea when he does his "Roster Analysis" thread.
    When is the last time you saw him get burnt that bad? (not counting the panthers game) He's no shutdown corner, but he can usually hold his own. He was making poor mental mistakes, biting on routes that weren't there. It wasn't how he normally plays. I think somethings up.

    I've seen him get beat by a step, or lose jumpballs, its going to happen, as he's not the fastest or tallest, but the past two games were just embarassing. Was watching the game with my dad, and when he gave up that big comeback route in the 4th quarter, I recall the old man saying "I thought he was supposed to be good?", followed by "Was taht Winfield again?" on the long td in OT. Its not his norm.
    I tend to lean towards what Chucky thought on that play......

    All of the Vikes thought run, no one was playing the pass, ......My guess...... With everyone crashing down on the run, I think he wanted a little piece of it and got caught cheating a bit.
    We got all over Paymah's ass when he got beat on similar one on one coverage earlier in the year. Paymah was at least close to his man, although he didn't really know what to do when the ball came at him. As Marrdro stated, AW is not the fastest or the tallest and a 30 yard sprint to the end zone against a taller faster receiver will always go to the receiver. Frazier just simply should not let this happen, especially in the situation they were in...much more to lose than gain by selling out on a blitz.

    Griffin stands a much better chance of covering a guy for any distance, but even then, you better bring heat on the QB. Anytime we show this coverage, the QB will be licking his chops.

    Use AW for what he is best at, short zone coverage and run support. Same with Brinkley, use him for what he is best at, stopping the run, or possibly going after the QB. Brinkley will have more impact in putting pressure on the QB than trying to stay with a TE.
    I actually don't think that the call is that weird. You're all looking at this from a Vikings personel stand point, but the Bears had Aromashodu out there. Do you really want to blame Frazier for leaving Winfield, his best corner, one on one with Aromashodu, a practice squad hopper who has been nothing more than decent this year?

    You try to be aggressive, as Gould is one hell of a kicker and you don't want them to get any closer. Conventional wisdom has it that, with a QB who throws that much interceptions and some very mediocre receiver, they run it 3 times and just kick it. Especially Lovie's team. Of course you go with a blitz and hope that you guys can shut down the receivers. The thing that amazed me was that there wasn't more press coverage on that play. Especially with that Bears O-line.

    That said, I do agree that Winfield could use some safety help on regular plays, but this was a good call. Winfield just shouldn't have his eyes in the backfield when he's 1 on 1 in cover 0 (Or was it cover 1?).


    I'll rate Griffin a better pass defender
    Well, okay, I'm not that into the Vikes, but still. Winfield on Aromashodu is a match up I'd like as the Vikings. Griffen on Bennett, or who ever he was on on the other side of the field, as well.

    Point still is, I liked the call.
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  10. #30
    Formo's Avatar
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    Re:The Official

    I'm becoming more and more a Griff fan. No hard knocks on Winny.. He's a stud. When he's stopping the run. I like the idea that someone stated to use him on short coverage.. Let someone else pick up the WR. One on one, it looks too lopsided. Winfield isn't playing himself.. What it is.. I have no clue. I like the idea of using him as a run stopping SS. Allen/Sapp can take over his CB position. Let Tyrell/Williams run deep single zone coverage. We need our OLBs to get to the short route zones faster.. Opposing offenses are realizing that to counter our pass rush they need quick pass plays/routes. We need to counter that with a more disguised coverage (or better coverage) to force the QBs to hold on the ball longer than they want to.

    I second the notion that Phat Pat may be underrated in a game.. but he was active against the Panthers. No doubt he would have helped last night, though.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

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