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  1. #501
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    i couldnt find that, but i got our passing comparisons for the debate.
    some of this is through ferrottes 2 games and some through all 3.
    That means you are picking and choosing stats that pad your opinion.
    If you are going to post stats, post them all, not just the ones that support your view.
    no asshole, it means some of the stats have not been added to the splits on the statistics of players since the game ended about 11 hours ago.
    but if you added them the averages are basically the same anyone if you did any math in your own head.
    we were 5-15 on third downs and he completed whatever pct he did last night which is not much different from his 56 percent.
    you can use all the stats from last night once their in, they are not going to skew anything in some drastic way to prove my point one way or the other.
    but thanx for trying.


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  2. #502
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I have noticed that Shank has gotten much, much better now that Gus is driving.
    In fact, all of the WRs are too.
    I am not sure what it is that makes Gus's passes easier to catch than TJack's - may he has a lighter touch on the ball.
    Maybe the WRs and TEs are finally on the same page as the QB.
    Maybe we are just playing poorer defenses (although I would argue that we are not).

    Regardless of the reason, we have a better passing attack with Gus.
    Not amazing, but better.
    i dont think its the defenses, though the saints have sucked.
    it has to do with what we are doing with the offense.
    its still not being efficient but we are spreading the field more, and getting the balls down the field.
    you still see us fall into this dumping balls short of the first down mode for periods but we are taking more shots down the field, at least it seems so.
    i still say the way we are calling plays and the fact that there has been more oppurtunity to throw for him is the biggest of differences.
    but 2-1 record or not, it is not going to be good enough to win if we dont keep getting defensive tds.
    then again if we keep doing so it will work.
    maybe as they work more and more together it will get more and more efficient.
    I agree that it is the way that we are calling plays.
    I also think that who we have under center as an effect on the way we call plays.
    Our offense still put up 23 points yesterday - with our defense that should be enough to win.
    i would agree with the idea of who is under center except for the fact that it has been a forgone conclusion for a long time childress had to start calling plays further down the field to give us any shot.
    like i've said before, if it took the change at qb for childress to do it thats fine, but either way it had to be changed.
    and we have to be fair and put the 23 points into context.
    7 came on winfields sack and fumble recovery.
    so we went 5 yards for a td the offense gets credit for.
    another came off a turnover where we went 3 and out and had to kick the 53 yard field goal, and another 3 came on teh long pass interfernce.
    i'm not saying he gets no credit for the pass interference, but i wouldnt exactly call taht a drive for a score.
    so anyway you twist it at best the offense really should get credit for 13 at the most.
    if you are gonna be fair.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
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  3. #503
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "ragz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    i couldnt find that, but i got our passing comparisons for the debate.
    some of this is through ferrottes 2 games and some through all 3.
    That means you are picking and choosing stats that pad your opinion.
    If you are going to post stats, post them all, not just the ones that support your view.
    no donkey butt, it means some of the stats have not been added to the splits on the statistics of players since the game ended about 11 hours ago.
    but if you added them the averages are basically the same anyone if you did any math in your own head.
    we were 5-15 on third downs and he completed whatever pct he did last night which is not much different from his 56 percent.
    you can use all the stats from last night once their in, they are not going to skew anything in some drastic way to prove my point one way or the other.
    but thanx for trying.


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  4. #504
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    LOL at Ragz in this thread

    We improved from the Titans game

    Lowered our penelties.. No turnovers.. And had a passing game

    If Gus is just as good as Tjack then why wouldn't we put in the guy with potential?

    If they are on par with eachother then why would we have benched Jackson?

    What's the point in yanking Gus if we are winning?

    Gus's numbers are better.. He can throw deeper passes which Jackson can't.. And he can read a defense.. You can just see Jackson not making progressions


  5. #505
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "ragz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I have noticed that Shank has gotten much, much better now that Gus is driving.
    In fact, all of the WRs are too.
    I am not sure what it is that makes Gus's passes easier to catch than TJack's - may he has a lighter touch on the ball.
    Maybe the WRs and TEs are finally on the same page as the QB.
    Maybe we are just playing poorer defenses (although I would argue that we are not).

    Regardless of the reason, we have a better passing attack with Gus.
    Not amazing, but better.
    i dont think its the defenses, though the saints have sucked.
    it has to do with what we are doing with the offense.
    its still not being efficient but we are spreading the field more, and getting the balls down the field.
    you still see us fall into this dumping balls short of the first down mode for periods but we are taking more shots down the field, at least it seems so.
    i still say the way we are calling plays and the fact that there has been more oppurtunity to throw for him is the biggest of differences.
    but 2-1 record or not, it is not going to be good enough to win if we dont keep getting defensive tds.
    then again if we keep doing so it will work.
    maybe as they work more and more together it will get more and more efficient.
    I agree that it is the way that we are calling plays.
    I also think that who we have under center as an effect on the way we call plays.
    Our offense still put up 23 points yesterday - with our defense that should be enough to win.
    i would agree with the idea of who is under center except for the fact that it has been a forgone conclusion for a long time childress had to start calling plays further down the field to give us any shot.
    like i've said before, if it took the change at qb for childress to do it thats fine, but either way it had to be changed.
    and we have to be fair and put the 23 points into context.
    7 came on winfields sack and fumble recovery.
    so we went 5 yards for a td the offense gets credit for.
    another came off a turnover where we went 3 and out and had to kick the 53 yard field goal, and another 3 came on teh long pass interfernce.
    i'm not saying he gets no credit for the pass interference, but i wouldnt exactly call taht a drive for a score.
    so anyway you twist it at best the offense really should get credit for 13 at the most.
    if you are gonna be fair.
    You are just making excuses.

    OK, so if you only credit the offense with 13 points, then you can only credit the Saints offense with 13 points, since 14 came off from punt returns.
    So we would still be fine.

    But it doesn't work that way in football.
    You can definately give Gus credit for that PI call.
    He put the ball deep and right on target, and the saints player had to commit PI in order to prevent the catch.
    That is part of the game.
    It was a good throw at the right time, and it helped us win the game.
    The offense gets credit for the points they put up, regardless of the circumstances that get them into it.
    We have seen us at the 5 yard line before without putting points on the board.
    SO when the offense capitolized on a turnover and puts points up on the board, both the O and D get credit.

    You need to give credit where credit is due.
    And the offense deserves credit for putting 23 points up on the board.
    And the defense deserves credit for putting another 7 and keeping the Saints O to 13 points.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #506
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    Lets ignore the fact we won and complain about a back up horrible QB

    BRILLIANT

  7. #507
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    i couldnt find that, but i got our passing comparisons for the debate.
    some of this is through ferrottes 2 games and some through all 3.
    That means you are picking and choosing stats that pad your opinion.
    If you are going to post stats, post them all, not just the ones that support your view.
    no donkey butt, it means some of the stats have not been added to the splits on the statistics of players since the game ended about 11 hours ago.
    but if you added them the averages are basically the same anyone if you did any math in your own head.
    we were 5-15 on third downs and he completed whatever pct he did last night which is not much different from his 56 percent.
    you can use all the stats from last night once their in, they are not going to skew anything in some drastic way to prove my point one way or the other.
    but thanx for trying.

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    Relax son.
    oh the sensativity police are out.
    i know, how offensive calling someone a bad word when they question your credibility.
    oh well.
    i think you see what i'm saying nodak, i'm not padding any stats in one way or another.
    its not like ferrottes game last night was some stellar statistical peformance to change everything.
    it wasnt added on some of the stuff i didnt have to do detailed math for a half an hour on, i figured like 3rd down conversions and such.
    the point is clear though, the difference is not really being shown in play, as it is how we are running things.
    now people can have all the theories they want on why that is happening.
    ive stated mine about childress, but it doesnt change my point that with more oppurtunities we are getting similar results.
    such as the case was with holcomb, bollinger, b.johnson.
    but somehow this is a tjack vs ferrotte thing.
    no, this is a childress vs helping our qb play well thing.
    and i dont give a crap what you say nodak, if an offense gets teh ball on teh 5 yard line and actually scores i'm not exactly thinking the offense did something special.
    and if they get the ball on the the 35 yard line and get no yards and we kick a field goal how does that add up to them contributing.
    thats just ridiculous logic.

    V4L
    how much did we lower our pentalties cuz i thought i saw a fair share?

    if you consider a passing game one drive throughout 4 quarters you are right but if you evaluate the whole game which i have been doing we did not have a passing game otherwise.

    i've given my opinion on ferrotte being put in, cuz of childress's desperation to do anything.
    not exactly breaking news that coaches make quick drastic changes to save their jobs; scott linehan anyone?

    i think the last part just answered your other redundant question.

    and now one has ever said yank gus, but you've gotten pretty good in putting words in my mouth so why not.
    what i have consistently said is that if jackson is going to be used the way childress is using him there is no point of having him on the field.


    and your final point holds little creditability when the way we are calling games are giving ferrotte more of an oppurtunity to be successful.
    i would agree with you if i honestly felt jackson was getting the same oppurtunites to get plays more down field and not just dump the ball off.
    that would be teh point i made backed up by first half pass attempts.
    but again that is dismissed cuz it would make way too much sense.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  8. #508
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    "V4L" wrote:
    LOL at Ragz in this thread

    We improved from the Titans game

    Lowered our penelties.. No turnovers.. And had a passing game

    If Gus is just as good as Tjack then why wouldn't we put in the guy with potential?

    If they are on par with eachother then why would we have benched Jackson?

    What's the point in yanking Gus if we are winning?

    Gus's numbers are better.. He can throw deeper passes which Jackson can't.. And he can read a defense.. You can just see Jackson not making progressions
    See, I think Jackson DOES make his reads, but he's just far slower than ol' Gus.
    That being said, he is buying time with his feet so that he seems to make most of the reads, it's just taking another second... There are times I saw him pull the ball down and run... for better or worse.

    I don't know, personally I am thinking we're at a wash as far as QB is concerned.
    They both have things they do better and worse than the other; I do not think we're overly better off with Gus, though he's better with the quick reads and I think it gave us SOMETHING.

    I would not be opposed to seeing them both play a bit to see how they do, but I just don't think that would work... Arizona tried it


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  9. #509
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    I see it as would you rather have 55 cents

    Or 50 cents?

    That 5 cents won't do too much but it's still better

  10. #510
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    Re: The Official Tarvaris Jackson Thread

    Neither QB has what it takes to go anywhere in the playoffs. I doubt this team even makes the playoffs.
    But I will take a 2-1 record over a 0-2 record every time.
    I'll stick with Gus, for now.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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