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  1. #61
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Did we really call a timeout with 14 seconds to go in the first half back at our own 20 yard line? When I saw it live, I thought it had to be the Cardinals that called the timeout, but no, it appeared we did. Then, we call for a dump off pass to pick up the first down...for what? To have first and 10 at the 25 yard line with 10 seconds left. Regardless of the dumbass throw by Ponder, I really had a hard time figuring that sequence out.
    Yeah, that was dumb as hell... when we didn't get any yardage on 1st down and then let the time go down on 2nd down... just let the time run out.... why call a timeout with 14 seconds left at 3rd and 10... worst case we would have had to kick giving them a chance at a return or long field goal... that was one of the worst coaching decision i've ever seen.

    I thought Az called the time out as well... we got very lucky on that one.... We also should have challenged that first pick by ponder.. I think AP caused the fumble... not sure who got it back though but it looked like AP did....

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I agree... but also because we see so many other young Qb's like RG III, Newton, Luck, Russel Williams, Andy Dalton and even Brandon Weeden lately have had not to mention other QB's recently like Stafford (4th yr), Ryan, Flacco, and Freeman have done in their first few years... Ponder isn't even close. So when you look at those guys, the "he's still young and only in his 2nd year" arguments go out the window...

    BTW, wasn't he supposed to be the "MOST NFL READY" out of his draft class??? Sure doesn't look like it...
    I assume you mean Russel Wilson - and his game this week against San Fran was a LOT worse than Ponder's was this week.

    Flacco? Freeman? Newton? I think you need to go back and look at how these QBs have done early in their careers. Hell, look at how some of them are doing now. Ponder has the same number of TDs and INTs as Flacco. And his QB rating is higher. How about Newton? Oh yeah - he SUCKS this year. He's had two good games and the others have been average to poor.

    And Weeden? Are you kidding me? Have you watched any Cleveland games? Christ, Weeden had a 5.1 QB rating this year. 5.1!

    Ponder has actually been out performing most of the QBs you listed in every category except the deep ball. Luck and RGIII are great QBs, I won't take that away from them. But whether you like it or not (I suspect you don't), Ponder isn't actually playing as bad as you are making him out to be.

    He had a bad game. He does NOT get a pass for the game. But he doesn't get an automatic failure either - ESPECIALLY when we compare him to the other young QBs in the league, the majority of which he is still out performing.
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  3. #63
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I assume you mean Russel Wilson - and his game this week against San Fran was a LOT worse than Ponder's was this week.

    Flacco? Freeman? Newton? I think you need to go back and look at how these QBs have done early in their careers. Hell, look at how some of them are doing now. Ponder has the same number of TDs and INTs as Flacco. And his QB rating is higher. How about Newton? Oh yeah - he SUCKS this year. He's had two good games and the others have been average to poor.

    And Weeden? Are you kidding me? Have you watched any Cleveland games? Christ, Weeden had a 5.1 QB rating this year. 5.1!

    Ponder has actually been out performing most of the QBs you listed in every category except the deep ball. Luck and RGIII are great QBs, I won't take that away from them. But whether you like it or not (I suspect you don't), Ponder isn't actually playing as bad as you are making him out to be.

    He had a bad game. He does NOT get a pass for the game. But he doesn't get an automatic failure either - ESPECIALLY when we compare him to the other young QBs in the league, the majority of which he is still out performing.
    I'm sorry NOdak, but I HIGHLY disagree with you... First, regarding wilson, not even close... your stats first of all are contradictory... Wilson had a better QB rating that game and more yards than Ponder. . Additionally, Wilson has a better Yards per attempt than Ponder and similar stats... and he's a 5th round pick rookie versus Ponder being a first round pick in his second year...

    As for Weeden, I know he's an older rookie.. but aside from that abysmal first game, he's actually played pretty well over the last five/six games and has as many td's as ponder (4 more picks tho)... their defense is just awful... plus he's getting better... baased on your assessment using QB rating Alex Smith is a top 10 QB with a 94 QB rating... That aint right...

    RGIII and Luck... Not even in the same category... So that argument ends there...

    And as far as the other guys, Flacco and Newton... C'mon is it even a question whether you would trade either of those guys for Ponder?? I dont think so... Newton may have regressed some this year but so has Ponder... and Newton's best game far out performs Ponder's....

    A lot of Ponder's yards come after the catch from receivers.. because he dinks and dunks to death... he's played decent in some games, but this dink and dunk is not going to cut it and unless he can throw the ball more than 7 yards which he hardly ever does... it's going to get continually hard for us to score...

    He'd be a good backup but I don't think he's the answer IMO... He's on the cusp of a top 20 qb... that's not saying much...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reignman View Post
    '08? That was like 20 years ago. And that was one of Tjokes best games yardage wise at 236. Ponder had 58 for the game and was only 1 of 7 for 4 yards in the entire 2nd half. 4 YARDS!! 5 times we went 3 and out. You really can't do much worse and still win.

    Ok I'll concede that it was the ugliest 2nd half of football I've ever seen in a win. The 1st half was ok, well except those 2 ugly ass floater interceptions. We lose in OT if it weren't for Smiths pick 6.
    If the score was 14-7, the Vikings would have played differently in the 4th quarter, so you can't just assume the game would have been tied up.

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    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConnecticutViking View Post
    W!
    All that matters.

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    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I'm sorry NOdak, but I HIGHLY disagree with you... First, regarding wilson, not even close... your stats first of all are contradictory... Wilson had a better QB rating that game and more yards than Ponder. . Additionally, Wilson has a better Yards per attempt than Ponder and similar stats... and he's a 5th round pick rookie versus Ponder being a first round pick in his second year...

    As for Weeden, I know he's an older rookie.. but aside from that abysmal first game, he's actually played pretty well over the last five/six games and has as many td's as ponder (4 more picks tho)... their defense is just awful... plus he's getting better... baased on your assessment using QB rating Alex Smith is a top 10 QB with a 94 QB rating... That aint right...

    RGIII and Luck... Not even in the same category... So that argument ends there...

    And as far as the other guys, Flacco and Newton... C'mon is it even a question whether you would trade either of those guys for Ponder?? I dont think so... Newton may have regressed some this year but so has Ponder... and Newton's best game far out performs Ponder's....

    A lot of Ponder's yards come after the catch from receivers.. because he dinks and dunks to death... he's played decent in some games, but this dink and dunk is not going to cut it and unless he can throw the ball more than 7 yards which he hardly ever does... it's going to get continually hard for us to score...

    He'd be a good backup but I don't think he's the answer IMO... He's on the cusp of a top 20 qb... that's not saying much...
    Would I trade Ponder for Newton or Flacco? Not a chance. Would I trade Ponder for Weeden or Wilson? Nope, not at all. Now Luck and RGIII are different stories, but i don't think anyone here was putting Ponder at the same level.

    Even if you set QB ratings aside, I think Ponder has been better on the field. Yes, he "dinks and dunks" as you put it, but that is the game plan. I don't think it is a question of whether or not he CAN throw the ball more than 7 yards, I think it is a lack of open receivers 7+ yards out.

    You are right, it is going to get harder and harder for us to score relying solely on the short game. But I don't think Ponder is the one holding us back in that regard. He had a bad game, yes. But for now that is all it was.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    It is hard to say what Musgrave's confidence level is, but regarding the other issues...

    Pass Blocking has been good most games, but it was horrible yesterday. That being said, Ponder definitely was holding on to the ball longer than usual, so some of those were coverage sacks (although some were just blatant misses by the OL).

    I tried to watch Simpson as much as I could - hard to do since I wasn't at the game and had to rely on TV. But from what I saw of him he wasn't really creating separation. Even on the go route that he drew the PI call on, he was well covered - given his speed, how close the CB was against the line, and how fast that ball came out, he should have had a step on the defender.
    I'm not sure if I totally agree with your earlier statement that Ponder was spot on with his previous passes to Simpson, because he was interfered with 3? 4? times now. What it certainly validates was he didn't get separation because the defender was was close enough to interfere him. Was the lack of separation due to him being grabbed or lack of speed? If only some PP.Oers who were at the game could give us their insight. Like you said, can't tell a lot from TV.

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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    Nicely put Singer.

    Pretty similar to the points Tim Ryan made during the broadcast. I think you nailed it in describing how defenses are starting to adjust to take away the short passing game. I didn't think the Cards necessarily took Rudolph out, as much as I thought Ponder missed him virtually every single time.

    Re: defenses picking their poison...Williams obviously was hell bent to shut down Fitzgerald. They did just that.

    That was an abysmal performance by Ponder...my optimism is wearing down. We will go 0-4 vs Chicago and Green Bay unless he steps it up. NOTE to Ponder...throw the ball OUT OF BOUNDS!!!!!!! Also, we should give an assist to the dumbass Cardinals players that publicly stated Peterson isn't his old self...wonder what they are saying now

    That said...we are 5-2 and have lost two games to rookie QBs. I am particularly thrilled to see the defense FINALLY creating turnovers again.

    Actually that's Kingpin's quote you quoted, but I predicted & said that is exactly what was going to happen weeks ago, along with a couple of others.

    A deep threat receiver is only a deep threat if you actually use him as one. If you only target him once a game, defenses aren't going to stay back all game waiting for it. They're going to play the short game & give only the single coverage on Simpson.

    At this point, I'm not even sure Simpson is even a deep threat to begin with. He certainly isn't getting the separation that we believe he was going to get.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I agree... but also because we see so many other young Qb's like RG III, Newton, Luck, Russel Williams, Andy Dalton and even Brandon Weeden lately have had not to mention other QB's recently like Stafford (4th yr), Ryan, Flacco, and Freeman have done in their first few years... Ponder isn't even close. So when you look at those guys, the "he's still young and only in his 2nd year" arguments go out the window...

    BTW, wasn't he supposed to be the "MOST NFL READY" out of his draft class??? Sure doesn't look like it...
    Just out of curiosity, how well did the the "He's still young and only in his 2nd year" arguments go around here in 2008 by the majority of the fans?

    He is still young & has a lot more to learn & we should give him the year to iron it out. Contrary to what many here believed in the past, I don't believe 17 starts is a lot of time. What I do have a problem with is that 17 starts in we're talking about mechanic issues. IMO, those shouldn't be cropping up at this point.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #70
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    A deep threat is what we are missing in this offense which we all know. To think Ponder sucks as Bleedpurple puts it is just silly. Give some credit to the Cardinals defense. Arizona has a good secondary if you havn't noticed. The Cardinals only allowed 18 points to the New England Patriots.

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