Thread: THE OFFICIAL PPO Vikes vs. Cardinals Postgame Thread

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

It is hard to say what Musgrave's confidence level is, but regarding the other issues...

Pass Blocking has been good most games, but it was horrible yesterday. That being said, Ponder definitely was holding on to the ball longer than usual, so some of those were coverage sacks (although some were just blatant misses by the OL).

I tried to watch Simpson as much as I could - hard to do since I wasn't at the game and had to rely on TV. But from what I saw of him he wasn't really creating separation. Even on the go route that he drew the PI call on, he was well covered - given his speed, how close the CB was against the line, and how fast that ball came out, he should have had a step on the defender.

I've gotta wonder if his leg is actually 100% yet?

Originally Posted by singersp

The offense needs to take control & put the game away before the 4th quarter. Seems like every time we have a lead, we end up playing a nail-bitting, edge of your seat 4th quarter where we give our opponents opportunities to come back & win the game.

We have two of the most prolific offensive weapons in our arsenal in Harvin & AD & a supposed deep threat with Simpson, yet we have a hard time scoring TD's. Only twice did we put up more than 2 offensive TD's this year. People here are always quick to point out our losses when they are by 7 points or less, but there isn't much talk about 3 of our 5 wins coming by 7 points or more.

Either Musgrave has a lack of confidence in Ponder throwing deep, a lack of confidence in our OL to pass block a deeper passing game, a lack of confidence in Simpson's ability to get open, a combination of the 3 or he feels having a deep threat receiver in the lineup is enough to keep defenses back.

A "deep threat" receiver becomes a "deep threat" receiver only when you make good on that threat.

What I believe is going on with Ponder is that defenses adjust, and the adjustment defenses are making with Ponder is to take away his short passing game which he has thrived on for the first 4 weeks. They I believe are daring him to throw the ball donw the field and he is hesitant to do it. You will see more of the same until this guy decides to take a drop , set his feet , and actually throw a ball down the field on time. Defenses will always pick their poison and right now it's stack the box, take away the simple dumps, and make Ponder throw the ball down the field. When is the last time you saw him actually take a 5 step drop, set his feet and throw? He holds the ball constantly and looks for the check down which just is not there because defenses are taking it away. His confidence looks shot and until he decides to just wing it he's going to struggle. I really believe with our improved defense and the way our Williams is orchestrating it, our strong running game with a beast in Peterson, and very good special teams that this team can compete in a league of great today , crap tomorrow teams , we can beat anyone. There is no way they compete with the way Ponder is playing especially against decent teams which Arizona is not right now.

Some of you may give Ponder a pass on the recent "pic-itis" but I don't. First, he's supposed to be smart and those are some of the dumbest throws I've seen. Throws that can get you beat. Second, it's not like the guy hasn't been playing football all his life. How hard is it to figure out not to press a bad situation, throw the ball away, and play the next down? That's QB 101 and everybody acts like it takes years to figure out. Bull! Just don't throw the damn ball to the other team son! Thank goodness for Peterson and Harvin- without them we'd be in trouble. We've got some stern tests coming up- Green Bay twice, Chicago twice, Seattle and Houston. Ponder needs to get it together.

Originally Posted by kingpin9995

What I believe is going on with Ponder is that defenses adjust, and the adjustment defenses are making with Ponder is to take away his short passing game which he has thrived on for the first 4 weeks. They I believe are daring him to throw the ball donw the field and he is hesitant to do it. You will see more of the same until this guy decides to take a drop , set his feet , and actually throw a ball down the field on time. Defenses will always pick their poison and right now it's stack the box, take away the simple dumps, and make Ponder throw the ball down the field. When is the last time you saw him actually take a 5 step drop, set his feet and throw? He holds the ball constantly and looks for the check down which just is not there because defenses are taking it away. His confidence looks shot and until he decides to just wing it he's going to struggle. I really believe with our improved defense and the way our Williams is orchestrating it, our strong running game with a beast in Peterson, and very good special teams that this team can compete in a league of great today , crap tomorrow teams , we can beat anyone. There is no way they compete with the way Ponder is playing especially against decent teams which Arizona is not right now.

Nicely put Singer.

Pretty similar to the points Tim Ryan made during the broadcast. I think you nailed it in describing how defenses are starting to adjust to take away the short passing game. I didn't think the Cards necessarily took Rudolph out, as much as I thought Ponder missed him virtually every single time.

Re: defenses picking their poison...Williams obviously was hell bent to shut down Fitzgerald. They did just that.

That was an abysmal performance by Ponder...my optimism is wearing down. We will go 0-4 vs Chicago and Green Bay unless he steps it up. NOTE to Ponder...throw the ball OUT OF BOUNDS!!!!!!! Also, we should give an assist to the dumbass Cardinals players that publicly stated Peterson isn't his old self...wonder what they are saying now

That said...we are 5-2 and have lost two games to rookie QBs. I am particularly thrilled to see the defense FINALLY creating turnovers again.

Originally Posted by MulletMullitia

I'm taking partial credit for the pick 6 since I was wearing my new Eraser jersey! All credit goes to the D and obviously Adrian. A+ for both. I've never seen a defense improve and develop so much in one year. Is Alan Williams THAT good, or was Pagac THAT bad?

I think that Harrison Smith is THAT GOOD! AND, so far, Winfield and Cook have stayed on the field, AND the CBs behind them have also made plays. Wow, DEFENSE!!!

We could still use some depth on the DL as our stars are aging, and perhaps, a bad-ass, sideline-to-sideline LB who can cover better...but, for the most part, the defense and running game are keeping us in games many thought we'd lose.

Ponder needs to get better, but we still aren't seeing much in the way of WRs open deep. The OL is better, but still developing and gelling, as evidenced by all the pressure in CP's face all game long. I wouldn't be in such a hurry to throw Ponder under the bus...he's still young and has questionable/still developing talent at a few key positions around him.

Really, so far the season, I'd say we're beating the teams we should beat (home at the Dome) and losing to teams with top-notch QB talent on the road. The real shit will hit the fan weeks 10-14 when we play 4 Divisional games (and our Bye) in a row with 2 on the road.

Originally Posted by digital420

just a reminder.. the Cards D has shut down qb's before.

Frustrating Day Against The Vikings
from the cards official site.

not saying i let ponder escape the blame. but give credit as well to a solid D.


DiGiTaL

A "deep threat" receiver becomes a "deep threat" receiver only when you make good on that threat.

Both good points. The Cards D does deserve some credit, they were all over our improved/improving OL making things hard on everyone but Adrian "The BEAST" Peterson.

So far this season is unfolding as I had hoped...we have an easier schedule early, but will be facing much stiffer competition shortly. The same old zone blitz that was beating Chiller's KAO is still going to be effective vs. this team if we don't come up with a deep threat we can make good on.

Originally Posted by singersp

The offense needs to take control & put the game away before the 4th quarter. Seems like every time we have a lead, we end up playing a nail-bitting, edge of your seat 4th quarter where we give our opponents opportunities to come back & win the game.

We have two of the most prolific offensive weapons in our arsenal in Harvin & AD & a supposed deep threat with Simpson, yet we have a hard time scoring TD's. Only twice did we put up more than 2 offensive TD's this year. People here are always quick to point out our losses when they are by 7 points or less, but there isn't much talk about 3 of our 5 wins coming by 7 points or more.

Either Musgrave has a lack of confidence in Ponder throwing deep, a lack of confidence in our OL to pass block a deeper passing game, a lack of confidence in Simpson's ability to get open, a combination of the 3 or he feels having a deep threat receiver in the lineup is enough to keep defenses back.

A "deep threat" receiver becomes a "deep threat" receiver only when you make good on that threat.

How about:

1. Dumbgrave taking out our 2 best players repeatedly in the red zone....
2. taking out peterson and running Gerhart on 3rd and 2
3. the Run, Run, Pass for 3 yards repeatedly in the red zone...

Can someone PLEASE tell Ponder the throw the ball into the end zone and stop checking down in the red zone... it's so frustrating...

Originally Posted by purplehelmut

Some of you may give Ponder a pass on the recent "pic-itis" but I don't. First, he's supposed to be smart and those are some of the dumbest throws I've seen. Throws that can get you beat. Second, it's not like the guy hasn't been playing football all his life. How hard is it to figure out not to press a bad situation, throw the ball away, and play the next down? That's QB 101 and everybody acts like it takes years to figure out. Bull! Just don't throw the damn ball to the other team son! Thank goodness for Peterson and Harvin- without them we'd be in trouble. We've got some stern tests coming up- Green Bay twice, Chicago twice, Seattle and Houston. Ponder needs to get it together.

I agree... but also because we see so many other young Qb's like RG III, Newton, Luck, Russel Williams, Andy Dalton and even Brandon Weeden lately have had not to mention other QB's recently like Stafford (4th yr), Ryan, Flacco, and Freeman have done in their first few years... Ponder isn't even close. So when you look at those guys, the "he's still young and only in his 2nd year" arguments go out the window...

BTW, wasn't he supposed to be the "MOST NFL READY" out of his draft class??? Sure doesn't look like it...

Did we really call a timeout with 14 seconds to go in the first half back at our own 20 yard line? When I saw it live, I thought it had to be the Cardinals that called the timeout, but no, it appeared we did. Then, we call for a dump off pass to pick up the first down...for what? To have first and 10 at the 25 yard line with 10 seconds left. Regardless of the dumbass throw by Ponder, I really had a hard time figuring that sequence out.

Originally Posted by bleedpurple

I agree... but also because we see so many other young Qb's like RG III, Newton, Luck, Russel Williams, Andy Dalton and even Brandon Weeden lately have had not to mention other QB's recently like Stafford (4th yr), Ryan, Flacco, and Freeman have done in their first few years... Ponder isn't even close. So when you look at those guys, the "he's still young and only in his 2nd year" arguments go out the window...

BTW, wasn't he supposed to be the "MOST NFL READY" out of his draft class??? Sure doesn't look like it...

Let's see if he comes out of it in the next few games. Every QB is going to have their ups and downs, especially in their first few years. Cam blew the league away last year, and now looks like a shadow of himself. Freeman has had many sub par games and doesn't appear to be progressing. Russell Williams has a long ways to go before anybody is going to be crowning him a long term starter. Weeden has had a lot of lumps this year, with plenty of excuses to back it up. Flacco looks like a hero in one game, then a complete dud in the next. Matty Ice hasn't won anything of significance and Dalton looks pretty middle of the road.

I think you just need to sit back and let the next few weeks unfold to see if he can bounce back or if this is a digression for Ponder. QB's development from their rookie year is mostly mental, either Ponder has it, or he doesn't. His poor throws over the last few games IMO is mental, let's see how strong he is upstairs to fix it.