The Official Fire Leslie Frazier Thread

**pack93z** · 11-22-2010, 01:56 PM

Marrdro wrote:

I don't think there have been any leaks. One article by a Bores hack doesn't constitute a leak.

Your right.. they have been playing it out in front for the world to see.

Basically.. keep your warts within the walls of the locker room.. not on the lead video of ESPN and every other show making the Vikings the mockery of the NFL.

IMO, with little emotional investment.

**Marrdro** · 11-22-2010, 02:01 PM

Caine wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

pack93z wrote:

Now.. in the following of the thread.. if he can't do that by Sunday.

Might as well fire him. :silly:

I haven't been to the PUKER site all year. Bet you guys/gals are in heaven right now.

I might stop in for a chat later this week.

Hey, try telling them that Rodgers is ruining their team, and that they need to get Flynn in there to find out "what they've got" with him...

You might have better luck convincing them...

:blink:

Caine

Why would I try to tell them that Rodgers is ruining thier team.

He can move in the pocket and read a defense and by the way, he can hit a reciever when he is WIDE FRICKEN OPEN......

**Marrdro** · 11-22-2010, 02:02 PM

pack93z wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

I don't think there have been any leaks. One article by a Bores hack doesn't constitute a leak.

Your right.. they have been playing it out in front for the world to see.

Basically.. keep your warts within the walls of the locker room.. not on the lead video of ESPN and every other show making the Vikings the mockery of the NFL.

IMO, with little emotional investment.

Comeon, you know the game better than that. Every team could get caught with sideline skirmashes in the heat of battle.. Everyteam.

My guess, Disney has been trying to get some of that for weeks and finally got some. Doesn't mean anything.

**pack93z** · 11-22-2010, 02:13 PM

Marrdro wrote:

pack93z wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

I don't think there have been any leaks. One article by a Bores hack doesn't constitute a leak.

Your right.. they have been playing it out in front for the world to see.

Basically.. keep your warts within the walls of the locker room.. not on the lead video of ESPN and every other show making the Vikings the mockery of the NFL.

IMO, with little emotional investment.

Comeon, you know the game better than that. Every team could get caught with sideline skirmashes in the heat of battle.. Everyteam.

My guess, Disney has been trying to get some of that for weeks and finally got some. Doesn't mean anything.

My comments have very little to do with yesterday.. that was just a breaking point yesterday as the window on the season was officially closing.

My comments are directed at the weeks and weeks before yesterday, where Chilly and Brett banged heads weekly.. dragging the rest of the team into it.

Or letting Brett set an example of what the Franchise is willing to accept in terms of commitment to the team by yanking them around, coming in to camp whenever he wanted and then driving to pick him up personally from the airport.

I think a correlation can be made directly to the latitude Brett received to players skipping off season work, where the relationship and team chemistry is formed.

The surprise is that it worked last season.. but not shocking that it faltered this season.

Many of the Packers players respect Brett the player, but not many of them respect Brett the person. Some of the older guys did, but many of the younger guys didn't because of his special treatment.

IMO... Childress started to lose the team when he gushed over Brett early.. then as the conflicts built between Brett and Chilly, still didn't have the nads to correct the issues in house.. instead took it out to the pressers and it was over at that point.

Trust in a locker room is underrated.. and from the outside looking in.. the trust was disappearing as early as camp last year.. winning masks it well.. but I would bet that schism was dead on last season.

As a coach, you can't treat one guy like royalty and expect all the troops to buy in.. then turn around and crap on the princes crown.

**Caine** · 11-22-2010, 03:01 PM

pack93z wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

pack93z wrote:

Marrdro wrote:

I don't think there have been any leaks. One article by a Bores hack doesn't constitute a leak.

Your right.. they have been playing it out in front for the world to see.

Basically.. keep your warts within the walls of the locker room.. not on the lead video of ESPN and every other show making the Vikings the mockery of the NFL.

IMO, with little emotional investment.

Comeon, you know the game better than that. Every team could get caught with sideline skirmashes in the heat of battle.. Everyteam.

My guess, Disney has been trying to get some of that for weeks and finally got some. Doesn't mean anything.

My comments have very little to do with yesterday.. that was just a breaking point yesterday as the window on the season was officially closing.

My comments are directed at the weeks and weeks before yesterday, where Chilly and Brett banged heads weekly.. dragging the rest of the team into it.

Or letting Brett set an example of what the Franchise is willing to accept in terms of commitment to the team by yanking them around, coming in to camp whenever he wanted and then driving to pick him up personally from the airport.

I think a correlation can be made directly to the latitude Brett received to players skipping off season work, where the relationship and team chemistry is formed.

The surprise is that it worked last season.. but not shocking that it faltered this season.

Many of the Packers players respect Brett the player, but not many of them respect Brett the person. Some of the older guys did, but many of the younger guys didn't because of his special treatment.

IMO... Childress started to lose the team when he gushed over Brett early.. then as the conflicts built between Brett and Chilly, still didn't have the nads to correct the issues in house.. instead took it out to the pressers and it was over at that point.

Trust in a locker room is underrated.. and from the outside looking in.. the trust was disappearing as early as camp last year.. winning masks it well.. but I would bet that schism was dead on last season.

As a coach, you can't treat one guy like royalty and expect all the troops to buy in.. then turn around and crap on the princes crown.

You're partially right...but who is to blame for that "Special Treatment"?

According to Marrdro, It's Favre.

According to me, it the Coach.

Chiller had a choice to make - twice. Both times he chose to take Favre on whatever terms Favre offered.

Now, IMO, had Childress been better prepared at the QB position, this wouldn't have happened. But - as I have stated MANY times - Chiller hitched his wagon to Jackson, and had nowhere to turn BUT Favre to salvage his job last season.

And it worked. For awhile.

But Childress didn't learn, so he was forced to go to Favre AGAIN...and allowed Favre to waffle AGAIN.

Why? Because Favre was STILL a better option than Jackson...and Chiller knew it.

So, whose fault is it, ultimately?

Chiller's.

And he - CORRECTLY - got fired for it.

Caine

**pack93z** · 11-22-2010, 03:28 PM

Agreed.. the coach sets the tone for the team on the team.

He got down on his knees and married Brett.. and allowed things to happen on Brett's terms last season.

How could he enforce anything this season? He couldn't.

And when he started pushing back.. Brett played the same card he did toward the end in Green Bay, my way or I am out.

The Packers called his bluff and let him walk.. Chilly, didn't and was forever under his thumb.

IMO, Childress wasn't all at fault for the Vikes position, but he set the tone for the Favre antics... and he has no one else to blame but himself for that.

**jargomcfargo** · 11-22-2010, 03:48 PM

pack93z wrote:

Agreed.. the coach sets the tone for the team on the team.

He got down on his knees and married Brett.. and allowed things to happen on Brett's terms last season.

How could he enforce anything this season? He couldn't.

And when he started pushing back.. Brett played the same card he did toward the end in Green Bay, my way or I am out.

The Packers called his bluff and let him walk.. Chilly, didn't and was forever under his thumb.

IMO, Childress wasn't all at fault for the Vikes position, but he set the tone for the Favre antics... and he has no one else to blame but himself for that.

Probably correct but past history. Time to move on.
PP.O is so forward thinking that it already has a fire Frazier thread before he even becomes head coach.

Fire Frazier!

**Freya** · 11-22-2010, 03:52 PM

Caine wrote:

Minniman wrote:

Mr Anderson wrote:

ultravikingfan wrote:

Mr Anderson wrote:

This is in no way Frazier's fault.

His guy's have been awesome all season up until the second half today.

I'm surprised they hung in as long as they did.

This team has no heart, it's allergic to winning. And it all traces back to Childress.

Yup, awesome all year. All that QB pressure. Giving the Pack yards and 1st Downs at the end of the game when we needed a stop. AWESOME!

I see the logic. Blame Chiller (who BTW blows) but do not blame Frazier for his Defense.

They are paid big $$$ to hang in there.

Say you're a carpenter:

You create beautiful pieces of woodwork for weeks despite having some broken tools, but you're continually given shitty wood with lots of flaws, knots, and rot you can't see.

The work you do looks nice for a while, then after a few hours crumbles in front of your eyes.

You go to your wood supplier and say something, and they promise you the quality of their product would improve. You have no real power what you do, but rely on them for what you produce to be of any significance.

Eventually start to carve your most difficult task yet. A really tricky piece. And it's going great for the first half of the project, and it starts to crumble again.

How would that make you feel? Pretty pissed off, no? There's nothing you can do to create a lasting piece for others to see. It would be mentally crippling. It would be crushing. Knowing that no matter how well you do, the other person you rely on will let you down.

But back to reality: It's ridiculous to call for Frazier's firing. The best coach and arguably the best QB in the league beat us. We turned the ball over and they capitalized, they made a big play out of a scramble, they stuffed us on a 4th down. A handful of plays shaped this game.

No we're not getting pressure, but I've said this a few times, with our banged up corners and total lack of talent at safety combined with our zone system we can't afford to blitz. As good as our front 4 is, it's going to take time for them to get to the QB.

There's no doubt we have to improve, but calling for Frazier's head is stupid, but I guess it's also stupid of me to say it's in no way his fault.

The problem with the analogy is that Frazier has been given the best wood available, but he does not dare to carve anything but the most simple items available at any shop. The fine wood is, in effect, wasted.

The Vikings do not scheme to pressure the quarterback or jam the receivers. Too often, the Vikings defenders are defending space with no offensive players in them; that negates the advantage the defense has in the number of players without the football.

The Vikings blitz, but they do not do it with angles and effective edge overloads. The Vikings pressure, but they do not bump the hot receiver at the line. The Vikings have mobile defensive ends, but the do not stunt them or move them around much.

The Vikings will zone blitz, which allows a linebacker to overload, but it takes pressure off the other side with the lineman dropping back and often allows mismatched coverage. A zone blitz needs overwhelming pressure at the snap.

It would be better to allow a defensive end to pin his ears back for the pass rush and force a linebacker to contain against the run or cover the zone after a pass read, but I do not see much of that. I do see defensive ends that stutter step up to the offensive tackle and negate their own pass rushes.

Leslie Frazier plays it safe. With the players he has, he can make a game out of it with most teams, but I would not say he is a great defensive coordinator.

Very nice. +1

Caine

I second that.

Frazier won't be a great head coach either.

**jrjohn** · 11-22-2010, 07:02 PM

pack93z wrote:

Agreed.. the coach sets the tone for the team on the team.

He got down on his knees and married Brett.. and allowed things to happen on Brett's terms last season.

How could he enforce anything this season? He couldn't.

And when he started pushing back.. Brett played the same card he did toward the end in Green Bay, my way or I am out.

The Packers called his bluff and let him walk.. Chilly, didn't and was forever under his thumb.

IMO, Childress wasn't all at fault for the Vikes position, but he set the tone for the Favre antics... and he has no one else to blame but himself for that.

+1

**stjmnsota** · 11-24-2010, 12:03 AM

I am trying to find reasons why Frazier is such a great defensive coach? This defense is built on one thing. Pressure by the front four. Vikings blitz like crap, cover passes like crap and this year getting pressure by the front four like crap. How many times have we seen the defense get to 3 and long only to see a pass to a wide open receiver for a first down? Didn't anyone think that after last year, teams were going to focus on blocking the front four? Of course they do. The same way teams study any opponents strengths and make adjustments.

So Frazier comes in and takes over the defense that is essentially already established by Tomlin and others. Has it gotten any better? Have we seen any great play calling or schemes to help out? I respect Frazier and hope he can become a head coach one day but unfortunately the Vikings need to clean house. And that means Frazier, too.