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  1. #501
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine


  2. #502
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine

    And yet this team continues to improve (even with those crappy QB's) each and every year.

    It is a bit disheartening that we are right back to were we were with Denny.
    A continuous parade of QB's that were developed elsewhere.

    I for one hope they strike gold in this years draft and we finally see a kid that can put a stop to that.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #503
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine

    Bellyfat was not doing okay before Brady.
    He was doing average with Drew Bledsoe.
    In fact he was fired from Cleveland prior to getting the Patriots job.
    Dungy was building a superbowl team just like Childress is building a superbowl team.
    By the way his QB in Tampa was Brad Johnson.
    In Indy, Mora was a big part of building that team prior to him getting there (not to take away from him because he is an awesome coach).
    Cowher also took a while to BUILD a superbowl team.


    You keep hitting the nail on the head when you use the phrase "build".
    That is what CHildress is doing now.
    He is building a superbowl calibur team.
    And you know what?
    He has built that calibur team.
    Now it's up to executing and winning one.


    No one is arguing the QB situation in the past.
    No one is arguing that we don't know what is oging to happen in the future.
    But please tell me what team knows what is happening in the future?
    Hell the Bears thought they were superbowl bound when they signed Cutler.
    The are below .500 with that FRANCHISE QB you believe is so important.
    Of course we all would want a QB that is going to be solid for many years.
    But look at today's game of football in the NFL and tell me how many teams have that luxury.
    Not very many do they?

    Since Chilly took over there have been many reasons why the team didn't succeed.
    You blame coaching and scheme and truth be told there has been mistakes by coaching.
    That happens.
    But many (most) times when things went wrong it wasn't because of coaching or schemes.
    It was because of lack of execution.
    Argue all you want but execution lies on the players.
    Penalties, turnovers is something coaches cannot control.
    They also can't control STs allowing TDs.

  4. #504
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine

    Bellyfat was not doing okay before Brady.
    He was doing average with Drew Bledsoe.
    In fact he was fired from Cleveland prior to getting the Patriots job.
    Dungy was building a superbowl team just like Childress is building a superbowl team.
    By the way his QB in Tampa was Brad Johnson.
    In Indy, Mora was a big part of building that team prior to him getting there (not to take away from him because he is an awesome coach).
    Cowher also took a while to BUILD a superbowl team.


    You keep hitting the nail on the head when you use the phrase "build".
    That is what CHildress is doing now.
    He is building a superbowl calibur team.
    And you know what?
    He has built that calibur team.
    Now it's up to executing and winning one.


    No one is arguing the QB situation in the past.
    No one is arguing that we don't know what is oging to happen in the future.
    But please tell me what team knows what is happening in the future?
    Hell the Bears thought they were superbowl bound when they signed Cutler.
    The are below .500 with that FRANCHISE QB you believe is so important.
    Of course we all would want a QB that is going to be solid for many years.
    But look at today's game of football in the NFL and tell me how many teams have that luxury.
    Not very many do they?

    Since Chilly took over there have been many reasons why the team didn't succeed.
    You blame coaching and scheme and truth be told there has been mistakes by coaching.
    That happens.
    But many (most) times when things went wrong it wasn't because of coaching or schemes.
    It was because of lack of execution.
    Argue all you want but execution lies on the players.
    Penalties, turnovers is something coaches cannot control.
    They also can't control STs allowing TDs.
    It's sort of funny - to me anyway - that you keep chasing your tail with this.


    Bottom line, I have AGREED that Chiller has brought in talent...of course, he's had an open check book to do so with, and he only gets partial credit in that regard because he's not the sole decision maker here.

    I have AGREED that it takes time to BUILD a winning franchise.
    I agreed that many of the coaches I mentioned did EXACTLY that.

    What I DISAGREE on, and what you continue to conveniently ignore - is the FACT that Childress' path to success has been hamstrung repeatedly by his INABILITY to bring in a quality QB (until he convinced Favre to come in) for the long term.
    His continued insistence on playing Jackson has resulted in some generaly pathetic results, with a couple of above average ones that are then lauded as pro-bowl worthy by a small handful of people here.

    I have also commented on several other Childress failings...all of which you ignore as you attempt to get me current on the standings of the NFCN and otehr notable coaches in the NFL (Thanks, but I have taht stuff down cold...appreciate the effort though).

    Bottom line, you like Chiller...I don't.
    I don't think what we're seeing NOW is resultant from Chiller so much as it is from Favre.
    And I very STRONGLY suspect - supported by the statistics of the past 3 years - that very soon we will be BACK to being a very talented under achieving team...much like last season.

    Finally, the excuse surrounding "what team knows what is happening in the future?" is flat out weak.
    Good coaches prepare for the future.
    They make moves designed to minimize the negative impacts of losing key players.
    In Chillers' case, he's done the OPPOSITE...he's sought out the Key player to minimize the negative impact of his crappy player selection at QB.
    Problem is, as I've also repeatedly stated, this is a temporary fix to a long term problem.

    And, even though we don't need to wory about it NOW, it will be an issue next season or the season after at the very latest.

    So, while I AM enjoying the ride currently, I - again - neither credit Chiller with it, nor do I believe that he can sustain it beyond the tenure of Favre.
    That means that I am NOT in favor of extending him...just as I was not in favor of retaining him last season.
    And none of your platitiudes will alter that one iota.

    Caine

  5. #505
    Zeus's Avatar
    Zeus is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.
    Belichick did fine before Brady?
    Really?
    Is that why he got fired in Cleveland?

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  6. #506
    snowinapril's Avatar
    snowinapril is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine

    Everyone (franchise) needs a player or players to get them over "the Hump."

    The Vikings haven't had a franchise QB since Tark.
    Kramer did well on and off.
    Culpepper was decent with the cast he was working with then did a SuperNova and exploded.
    We let go of Gannon prematurely, possibly.

    Salisbury
    Gannon
    Dils
    McMahon
    Johnson
    Cunningham
    Wilson
    George
    Moon

    How many of those guys were on the tail end when they played for us = old?

    Belichick was doing fine before Brady, but without him, they don't have a dynasty. Also, decision like the one in Indy would not be as favorable and would have put Belichick out of a job without those Rings.
    JMHO!

    Cowher was like Green was in Minny, they both got lots of wins and were dominant.
    It wasn't until Bill got Roth-less-burger that pushed him over the edge. JMHO!

    Dungy in Tampa got that team together.
    He brought on BJ and went 9-7 his last year.
    The next year Chucky takes over and they finish 12-4 and win a Title.
    Dungy goes to Indy and takes over a decent team with a franchise QB in place.
    He had to go out and get pieces to fill in the puzzle.
    Took five years to get to the Bowl and get that Title.
    JMHO!

    The common things here are stable coaches.
    They all provide solid structure to work around.
    All of these guys had a quality QB to run their offenses.
    Don't forget about ownership, they have proven that they were committed to these coaches.

    It is unfair to say that Chilly is where he is because of AD or BF.
    You can say the same thing about the other three coaches too.

    We won the North last year with T Jack!
    We have been improving our record year after year.



    Look on the bright side, I think that Chilly wants to pursue Orton when he retires.

  7. #507
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:

    It's sort of funny - to me anyway - that you keep chasing your tail with this.


    Bottom line, I have AGREED that Chiller has brought in talent...of course, he's had an open check book to do so with, and he only gets partial credit in that regard because he's not the sole decision maker here.

    I have AGREED that it takes time to BUILD a winning franchise.
    I agreed that many of the coaches I mentioned did EXACTLY that.

    What I DISAGREE on, and what you continue to conveniently ignore - is the FACT that Childress' path to success has been hamstrung repeatedly by his INABILITY to bring in a quality QB (until he convinced Favre to come in) for the long term.
    His continued insistence on playing Jackson has resulted in some generaly pathetic results, with a couple of above average ones that are then lauded as pro-bowl worthy by a small handful of people here.

    I have also commented on several other Childress failings...all of which you ignore as you attempt to get me current on the standings of the NFCN and otehr notable coaches in the NFL (Thanks, but I have taht stuff down cold...appreciate the effort though).

    Bottom line, you like Chiller...I don't.
    I don't think what we're seeing NOW is resultant from Chiller so much as it is from Favre.
    And I very STRONGLY suspect - supported by the statistics of the past 3 years - that very soon we will be BACK to being a very talented under achieving team...much like last season.

    Finally, the excuse surrounding "what team knows what is happening in the future?" is flat out weak.
    Good coaches prepare for the future.
    They make moves designed to minimize the negative impacts of losing key players.
    In Chillers' case, he's done the OPPOSITE...he's sought out the Key player to minimize the negative impact of his crappy player selection at QB.
    Problem is, as I've also repeatedly stated, this is a temporary fix to a long term problem.

    And, even though we don't need to wory about it NOW, it will be an issue next season or the season after at the very latest.

    So, while I AM enjoying the ride currently, I - again - neither credit Chiller with it, nor do I believe that he can sustain it beyond the tenure of Favre.
    That means that I am NOT in favor of extending him...just as I was not in favor of retaining him last season.
    And none of your platitiudes will alter that one iota.

    Caine
    Differing opinions here, that is key.

    Brad Johnson or T-Jack?
    Brad Johnson in his prime yes, Brad the guy that had a difficult time throwing on a rope at 20 yards then go with young inexperienced TJ.

    T-Jack or Frerote?
    You go with TJ if you want to let youth ride and have a guy readily willing to run.
    Frerote if you want a guy that will sit in the pocket and pass.

    T-Jack or Favre?
    Duh!

    I think that initially, Chilly wanted TJ to get a taste of the NFL by watching.
    He knew Johnson didn't have it but thought he could manage the game.
    Good choice.

    We all know about the about Bollinger and Holcomb.
    I think we all agree that they weren't high quality QBs.
    It always seemed like the Coaches were high enough on the practice TJ but once he got on the field, the game TJ just wasn't quite what they wanted.
    BB and KH were duct tape that knew the WCO at best. Bad choices!

    Frerote...... he was an upgrade on BB and KH.
    He pushed TJ a bit.
    Frerote played well on that stretch and helped us win the North.
    Good choice.
    Putting TJ back in late in the season and then the playoff game, questionable!

    Favre was a good choice. It proves that this team can win with a quality QB.
    It was the main piece of the puzzle that was missing.
    We know now that we have to go out and snag a quality QB if one comes available or draft one and get lucky like the Steelers did with Rothlisberger.
    There is a chance that TJ might be able to be a serviceable QB sitting behind BF for 2 years to possible patch a transition into a franchise QB over time.

    I don't think any team is afforded the luxury of a magic wand that makes players appear with a wave of the wand.
    If someone wants to go out and make a list of all QBs that were available and say we should have taken this guy or that guy, go for it.
    It is all hindsight.
    I am just glad that with TOA we have been improving year after year and the TOA along with Wilf(s) have made a commitment to improve.
    It is a good team to have.

    Side Note:
    McCarthy and Thompson can't make Rodgers throw the ball quicker so he doesn't get sacked.
    Is Rodger the 2005 Culpepper?
    Will Rodgers get better?
    If he does get better, the Packers will be a better team and they will be competitors for the North every year.

  8. #508
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Caine" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.

    Furthermore, there are HUGE differences in the people you cited and the QB’s you referenced.
    Primarily it is the fact that in EACH case, those are FRANCHISE QB’s who are or are going to be in place for a LONG time…not a 1-2 year shot in the tail to keep the ship afloat.
    Our HC has shown a nasty tendency towards favoring long shot QB’s and parading in crappy ones to validate his continued existence.
    THEN, with everyone saying his job is on the line, he FINALLY goes out and gets a quality QB….too bad it’s only a short-term fix.
    But you and the rest of the Chillerphiles seem to think we were ALWAYS headed this way.
    We weren’t.
    Take a look at the stats from last season..or the one before…and I will repeat what I have said before – IT ISN’T CHILLER MAKING THE DIFFERENCE!!!! Sometimes it’s the QB…sometimes it’s the coach…sometimes it’s both.
    I firmly believe that in THIS case, it is NOT the coach making this all happen.


    Look, I love the fact that we’re 8-1.
    I love the fact that we look like we can make a legitimate push for the Superbowl.
    Having been a Vikes fan for @ 40 years, I am thrilled at the prospect of “bringing one home” finally…

    But I don’t let my enthusiasm for what is happening BLIND me to WHY it is happening.
    It isn’t Chiller and his wonderful coaching, schemes, or play calling that’s getting it done.
    And I’m afraid that once Favre leaves, we’ll find that out painfully.

    Caine

    Bellyfat was not doing okay before Brady.
    He was doing average with Drew Bledsoe.
    In fact he was fired from Cleveland prior to getting the Patriots job.
    Dungy was building a superbowl team just like Childress is building a superbowl team.
    By the way his QB in Tampa was Brad Johnson.
    In Indy, Mora was a big part of building that team prior to him getting there (not to take away from him because he is an awesome coach).
    Cowher also took a while to BUILD a superbowl team.


    You keep hitting the nail on the head when you use the phrase "build".
    That is what CHildress is doing now.
    He is building a superbowl calibur team.
    And you know what?
    He has built that calibur team.
    Now it's up to executing and winning one.


    No one is arguing the QB situation in the past.
    No one is arguing that we don't know what is oging to happen in the future.
    But please tell me what team knows what is happening in the future?
    Hell the Bears thought they were superbowl bound when they signed Cutler.
    The are below .500 with that FRANCHISE QB you believe is so important.
    Of course we all would want a QB that is going to be solid for many years.
    But look at today's game of football in the NFL and tell me how many teams have that luxury.
    Not very many do they?

    Since Chilly took over there have been many reasons why the team didn't succeed.
    You blame coaching and scheme and truth be told there has been mistakes by coaching.
    That happens.
    But many (most) times when things went wrong it wasn't because of coaching or schemes.
    It was because of lack of execution.
    Argue all you want but execution lies on the players.
    Penalties, turnovers is something coaches cannot control.
    They also can't control STs allowing TDs.
    It's sort of funny - to me anyway - that you keep chasing your tail with this.


    Bottom line, I have AGREED that Chiller has brought in talent...of course, he's had an open check book to do so with, and he only gets partial credit in that regard because he's not the sole decision maker here.

    I have AGREED that it takes time to BUILD a winning franchise.
    I agreed that many of the coaches I mentioned did EXACTLY that.

    What I DISAGREE on, and what you continue to conveniently ignore - is the FACT that Childress' path to success has been hamstrung repeatedly by his INABILITY to bring in a quality QB (until he convinced Favre to come in) for the long term.
    His continued insistence on playing Jackson has resulted in some generaly pathetic results, with a couple of above average ones that are then lauded as pro-bowl worthy by a small handful of people here.

    I have also commented on several other Childress failings...all of which you ignore as you attempt to get me current on the standings of the NFCN and otehr notable coaches in the NFL (Thanks, but I have taht stuff down cold...appreciate the effort though).

    Bottom line, you like Chiller...I don't.
    I don't think what we're seeing NOW is resultant from Chiller so much as it is from Favre.
    And I very STRONGLY suspect - supported by the statistics of the past 3 years - that very soon we will be BACK to being a very talented under achieving team...much like last season.

    Finally, the excuse surrounding "what team knows what is happening in the future?" is flat out weak.
    Good coaches prepare for the future.
    They make moves designed to minimize the negative impacts of losing key players.
    In Chillers' case, he's done the OPPOSITE...he's sought out the Key player to minimize the negative impact of his crappy player selection at QB.
    Problem is, as I've also repeatedly stated, this is a temporary fix to a long term problem.

    And, even though we don't need to wory about it NOW, it will be an issue next season or the season after at the very latest.

    So, while I AM enjoying the ride currently, I - again - neither credit Chiller with it, nor do I believe that he can sustain it beyond the tenure of Favre.
    That means that I am NOT in favor of extending him...just as I was not in favor of retaining him last season.
    And none of your platitiudes will alter that one iota.

    Caine
    First, I am not trying to alter your thoughts at all.
    We disagree on this extension and I'm not saying you are wrong or I am wrong.


    Second, I haven't ignored a thing you have listed as you are claiming.
    I openly admitted the QB fiasco since he arrived till Favre arrived has been just that.
    A fiasco.
    Let me ask you, what do you consider succeeding?
    Because I consider succeeding a playoff birth in which he did just that BEFORE Favre got here.
    I have also stated many times in PPO threads that Favre has made a big difference so I'm not sure where you are reading otherwise.

    What you continue to ignore however is the fact he has helped build this team into a superbowl calibur team.
    You give him partial credit.
    I give him a lot of credit.
    Who was the one that pursued Favre?
    Who was the one that wanted and pursued Jared Allen.
    From what I read he had to convince Viking brass to go get these players that have helped this team tremendously.

    You call my "NOW" arguement weak.
    Well where are we RIGHT NOW?
    Who know's where we or any other team will be in the future?
    That is my point.
    You can ignore that aspect if you want but we are playing for a superbowl RIGHT NOW.
    Not two years from now.
    Will we be in a bad situation when Favre retires?
    How the hell do I know.
    Will the Colts be in a bad position if Manning retires or gets hurt?
    Will the Saints be in a bad position if Brees retires or gets hurt?
    Will the Pats be in a bad position if Brady retires or gets hurt?
    Yes they will.
    I will tell you this.
    The Vikings have better backups than all 3 of those teams and I would be more confident in TJ and Sage than I would with Sorgi, Brunell or Brian Hoyer/Isaiah Stanback .

    If you don't think this coaching staff and front office is preparing for the future I will beg to differ.
    They have a lot of young talented guys on this team that could be good for several years to come.
    Yes I will agree that some of that success is based on what QB will be there in the future.
    But again, look at the Vikings backups compared to the rest of the league.


    It is also funny you only give him partial credit when the team is doing well.
    Yet when the team wasn't doing to your expectations it was all Chilly's fault.
    Remember?
    Wasn't it you that stated everything falls on the HCs shoulders?
    He has the ultimate responsibility of the team?
    So now when they are playing well he is only partially responsible for that?

    I have stated several times what I like about Childress and what he has brought to the team.
    You ignore that by saying he has a open checkbook to do so.
    What difference does that make?
    The Vikes were capped out in the late 90s and that is why they had to let go of players such as Christie and McDaniel as well as others.

  9. #509
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "Braddock" wrote:
    Come on Caine, that kind of logic could extend to EVERY team in the NFL. Take Manning from the Colts, take Brees from NO. Hell, take Hasselback from SEA.

    EVERY team depends on their QB position. ANY team that loses that QB will be ~messed up~, with their head coach getting the blame. In the NFL, it's the talent of the players that gets more W's than the coach's abilities.

    So, i ask you.... seeing how many franchises there are in the NFL, and looking at the records of said teams, and analyzing any turn arounds on character (good or bad) on each team, and ability to draw players in to each team, how can Childress be considered anything but a top 5 coach in the NFL? You've got Belicheat, Tomlin, Wisenhunt's doing alright. Coughlin's players have gotten in trouble, and his team is now sliding, even with an NFL MVP QB. Who else would you rather have? I know a lot of team would like to have Childress.

    I suppose you don't know what you got, till it's gone. Will the Wilf's obviously knew what they have ahead of time and I think it's completely appropriate to tie him up.

    This team is in the best position to win it all that we've had in a long time. Childress has taken us from 6-10 to now competing with NO for 1st place NFC. HOW CAN YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE JOB HE'S DONE? You may not like him, or whatever facet of coaching he has, but look at the only things that matters: W's and improvement, and he's nailed it.

    So good for you Chilly. Go on and bring another Packer to Minn: Lombardi!
    Seriously?
    You now want to compare Chiller with Belichek?
    Are you kidding me?

    Here’s a tidbit for you, Belichek was doing fine BEFORE he got Brady, or Moss..so he’s not hiding behind anyone.
    Dungy was building a superbowl caliber team in Tampa, then did it again in Indy…but he was doing the first one without Manning.
    And Cowher and the Steelers were tought before Rothlesburger got there.
    Belichick did fine before Brady?
    Really?
    Is that why he got fired in Cleveland?

    =Z=
    Everybody gets fired in Cleveland.

    OTOH if not for him and his defensive coaching Parcells would have 0 SB wins.Funny how good of a coach Parcells looked like with Belechik as a DC and how far he went without him.

  10. #510
    scottishvike's Avatar
    scottishvike is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: The Official WILL Childress Gets a Contract Extension Thread

    I have never been really convinced by Childress ,I mean he is the inventor of the "punt to lose" strategy, so despite this years good start I would have waited to see how he does in the play-offs (touch wood) before giving him an extension. On reflection though maybe giving him it isn't the worst idea in the world. What it does is takes any speculation about his future away, leaving him feeling happy and concentrated on the job ahead. However on the other hand it doesn't make him unsackable if he does revert to bad Brad Zygi can still give him the boot, it just means he has to pay up for doing so.

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