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  1. #31
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    I certainly don't see the problem with the offense of Musgrave whether or not deep passes are called or not. In the plays that are in the playbook there are deep routes on a large number of the calls that are played. But to get to those you have to have protection. So we invested heavily in the line to give the QB the time to accomplish that. Then you need WR's who can run the routes, get open and give the QB a target to hit. We did that by drafting a few guys and getting a few guys in FA. Then you need a QB who can stand tall, go through the progressions, read the defense to know where the opportunities are, and have the physical ability to put the ball where it needs to be to make those plays happen.

    I believe that we have the OL and WR situations taken care of to the point where you can rule them out as the limiting factors. I also have seen enough WR's out in medium to deep routes to know that those options are there in the plays that are called. That leaves one person who seems to be the common denominator in all of this. Ponder.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I certainly don't see the problem with the offense of Musgrave whether or not deep passes are called or not. In the plays that are in the playbook there are deep routes on a large number of the calls that are played. But to get to those you have to have protection. So we invested heavily in the line to give the QB the time to accomplish that. Then you need WR's who can run the routes, get open and give the QB a target to hit. We did that by drafting a few guys and getting a few guys in FA. Then you need a QB who can stand tall, go through the progressions, read the defense to know where the opportunities are, and have the physical ability to put the ball where it needs to be to make those plays happen.

    I believe that we have the OL and WR situations taken care of to the point where you can rule them out as the limiting factors. I also have seen enough WR's out in medium to deep routes to know that those options are there in the plays that are called. That leaves one person who seems to be the common denominator in all of this. Ponder.
    Yup. The OLine made AD look unstoppable. Oh snap!
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Yup. The OLine made AD look unstoppable. Oh snap!
    In addition to the OL, we are used to seeing Felton in there. Felton wasn't in there.

    Years ago, we saw similar play out of Michael Bennett. He'd hit the line & get stuffed if there wasn't a hole. He was constantly criticized, not the OL, for not being able to bust his own hole if one was not there.

    Now we see the opposite with AD. No hole & AD gets stuffed. Blame the OL.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Yup. The OLine made AD look unstoppable. Oh snap!
    How many defenders do you expect each of them to be able to block when they have the whole defense compressed towards the line?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I certainly don't see the problem with the offense of Musgrave whether or not deep passes are called or not. In the plays that are in the playbook there are deep routes on a large number of the calls that are played. But to get to those you have to have protection. So we invested heavily in the line to give the QB the time to accomplish that. Then you need WR's who can run the routes, get open and give the QB a target to hit. We did that by drafting a few guys and getting a few guys in FA. Then you need a QB who can stand tall, go through the progressions, read the defense to know where the opportunities are, and have the physical ability to put the ball where it needs to be to make those plays happen.

    I believe that we have the OL and WR situations taken care of to the point where you can rule them out as the limiting factors. I also have seen enough WR's out in medium to deep routes to know that those options are there in the plays that are called. That leaves one person who seems to be the common denominator in all of this. Ponder.
    Yup. The OLine made AD look unstoppable. Oh snap!
    Have you watched the film enough to know it was the OL that wasn't doing their jobs right or could it have been that the defense did a great job of stopping the run with their scheme and we did a poor job of countering that by passing? Was Peterson recognizing and hitting the right gaps?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Have you watched the film enough to know it was the OL that wasn't doing their jobs right or could it have been that the defense did a great job of stopping the run with their scheme and we did a poor job of countering that by passing? Was Peterson recognizing and hitting the right gaps?
    *cough* Also, no Felton

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Years ago, we saw similar play out of Michael Bennett. He'd hit the line & get stuffed if there wasn't a hole. He was constantly criticized, not the OL, for not being able to bust his own hole if one was not there.
    Well Bennett did go on to prove he had problems with 4 other teams in the league for 5-6 years not being able to bounce a run to the outside and after bounce from team to team he went on to bounce cheques before becoming a true bust with the police.
    After Bennett left the Vikings I think there have been 6 1000 rushing seasons out of the 7....oh and Bennett's last 3 season with the Vikings he was out rushed by the whiz, Moore and Moe

  8. #38
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    Some brutally honest analysis of Musgrave's playcalling on NBC's Rotoworld site... and I agree with every word:

    Matchups: The Antidote, Cleveland @ Minnesota

    Matchups: The Antidote - Matchups - Rotoworld.com

    Jerome Simpson was predictably exposed as this year's Frisman Jackson/Kevin Ogletree: A Week 1 box-score star (7-140) who flopped in Week 2 (2-49 on five targets) and probably will continue to flop the rest of the way. The Vikings' superior X receiver option is Cordarrelle Patterson, whom OC Bill Musgrave can't figure out how to involve in the offense. Musgrave once had the same perplexing problems keeping Percy Harvin on the field. Musgrave is one of the least imaginative playcallers in football. So far, Patterson has played 11-of-121 offensive snaps (9.1%).
    Last edited by C Mac D; 09-20-2013 at 12:53 PM.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  9. #39
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    Patterson will get more snaps, and Simpson cannot catch balls that are not thrown his way.

    My problem with Musgrave is that his playbook looks like he copied plays from "Football for Dummies". There are too many routes that are just fly or hitch, and I do not see many clearing patterns and passes into the mid-center of the field. The passes are easy to defend.

    Musgrave also does not know how to mass protect. He puts two tight ends on the field and sends them both out, or he sends both backs out in the "I". Musgrave does not use the three receiver set to spread the defense and force open holes for Adrian Peterson.

    Musgrave uses Peterson for the play-action fake, but Ponder does not sell the fake. Ponder has trouble reacquiring his receivers after a fake or catching the ball on a shotgun snap.

    I do not see more than a generic offense that is neither gameplanned well against expected defenses nor makes needed adjustments during the game. The Vikings will see more eight men in the box in a 44 defense that run blitzes at least one player from the second level on each play until Musgrave can defeat it consistently. I do not know if Musgrave and Ponder can do that. Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, or Steve Young would eat that defense up, as would Brett Favre with these receivers.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Patterson will get more snaps, and Simpson cannot catch balls that are not thrown his way.

    My problem with Musgrave is that his playbook looks like he copied plays from "Football for Dummies". There are too many routes that are just fly or hitch, and I do not see many clearing patterns and passes into the mid-center of the field. The passes are easy to defend.

    Musgrave also does not know how to mass protect. He puts two tight ends on the field and sends them both out, or he sends both backs out in the "I". Musgrave does not use the three receiver set to spread the defense and force open holes for Adrian Peterson.

    Musgrave uses Peterson for the play-action fake, but Ponder does not sell the fake. Ponder has trouble reacquiring his receivers after a fake or catching the ball on a shotgun snap.

    I do not see more than a generic offense that is neither gameplanned well against expected defenses nor makes needed adjustments during the game. The Vikings will see more eight men in the box in a 44 defense that run blitzes at least one player from the second level on each play until Musgrave can defeat it consistently. I do not know if Musgrave and Ponder can do that. Bill Walsh, Joe Montana, or Steve Young would eat that defense up, as would Brett Favre with these receivers.
    Perhaps Ponder hasn't grasped the playbook yet or just can't handle the more difficult plays other than the vanilla ones.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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