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  1. #261
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "ThorSPL" #1096129
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096127
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096124
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096122
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096020
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096016
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096013
    He may work out and he might be a bust but when looking at what we needed and what was available I like the pick more and more all the time.
    And you should be able to tell us which after how many games? 6? 12?
    Sooner than the 5 it takes you.:P
    5? I never take that few. I was always an advocate of giving a player several starts & not knee-jerking & pulling him if he makes a mistake. That is what's been debated for a few years.
    OK, so you are going to take ten before you make your decision?

    There was nothing I did that was knee jerk. It doesn't take years and years to know what you have in a QB especially if you can separate what you see in them from the record they have whether it inflates or deflates their actual contribution.

    The TJ experiment is over, the childress debacle is over and now we can get back to the reality that you know pretty quickly what you have in a QB.
    Childress is the one that knee jerked and not you. History has shown us that you simply can't quickly judge a QB

    You tell me bust or keeper......

    GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    14 157 280 56.1 1,997 7.1 18 17 0 416 74.7 56 308 5.5 5 -- --

    W-L record: 3-11
    That would be "bust" but I know it's not. Probably Manning....
    Manning played when the season was 16 games not 14. Its tark
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  2. #262
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096127
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096124
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096122
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096020
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096016
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096013
    He may work out and he might be a bust but when looking at what we needed and what was available I like the pick more and more all the time.
    And you should be able to tell us which after how many games? 6? 12?
    Sooner than the 5 it takes you.:P
    5? I never take that few. I was always an advocate of giving a player several starts & not knee-jerking & pulling him if he makes a mistake. That is what's been debated for a few years.
    OK, so you are going to take ten before you make your decision?

    There was nothing I did that was knee jerk. It doesn't take years and years to know what you have in a QB especially if you can separate what you see in them from the record they have whether it inflates or deflates their actual contribution.

    The TJ experiment is over, the childress debacle is over and now we can get back to the reality that you know pretty quickly what you have in a QB.
    Childress is the one that knee jerked and not you. History has shown us that you simply can't quickly judge a QB

    You tell me bust or keeper......

    GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    14 157 280 56.1 1,997 7.1 18 17 0 416 74.7 56 308 5.5 5 -- --

    W-L record: 3-11
    So exactly what part of
    especially if you can separate what you see in them from the record they have whether it inflates or deflates their actual contribution.
    did you not understand?

    Let me try to make it a little simpler this time.

    You cannot use stats alone in order to make a decision whether a particular QB is going to pan out or not. I know it was fashionable to take selective stats for TJ in a few game stretch one year to support the claim he would be a great QB, but by the same token we could also take the stats from Gus when he was here the first time and filled in for Culpepper when he went down and get much the same picture, however you failed to bring them out as support that he was better than TJ based on those games.


    As far as the player you posted stats is concerned, do you have game film for those games that I could look at so I can see the whole picture of what happened as those stats were compiled? If not then the stats by themselves are worth precisely dick.

  3. #263
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096127
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096124
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096122
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096020
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096016
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096013
    He may work out and he might be a bust but when looking at what we needed and what was available I like the pick more and more all the time.
    And you should be able to tell us which after how many games? 6? 12?
    Sooner than the 5 it takes you.:P
    5? I never take that few. I was always an advocate of giving a player several starts & not knee-jerking & pulling him if he makes a mistake. That is what's been debated for a few years.
    OK, so you are going to take ten before you make your decision?

    There was nothing I did that was knee jerk. It doesn't take years and years to know what you have in a QB especially if you can separate what you see in them from the record they have whether it inflates or deflates their actual contribution.

    The TJ experiment is over, the childress debacle is over and now we can get back to the reality that you know pretty quickly what you have in a QB.
    Childress is the one that knee jerked and not you. History has shown us that you simply can't quickly judge a QB

    You tell me bust or keeper......

    GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    14 157 280 56.1 1,997 7.1 18 17 0 416 74.7 56 308 5.5 5 -- --

    W-L record: 3-11
    That definitely is not a bust at that point. 18 TDs and 17 INTs is not bad at all for a rook. Could definitely be a bust later, but at that point ... definitely not.
    Oh ... and I am pretty sure that is Tarkenton. His win-loss record his rookie year was actually 2-8 because he only started 10 games.

  4. #264
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Several? List those teams that did and didn't have at least one veteran (whose had several starts) on their roster when they did.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #265
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096134
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Several? List those teams that did and didn't have at least one veteran (whose had several starts) on their roster when they did.
    Joe Flacco started for the Ravens with backup Troy Smith and two whole starts to his credit (2nd year player) ... Mark Sanchez started for the Jets with backup Kellen Clemens (8 whole starts to his credit) ... Matt Ryan started with backup Chris Redman (a whole six starts).

    Hardly a list of venerable veterans.

  6. #266
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096134
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Several? List those teams that did and didn't have at least one veteran (whose had several starts) on their roster when they did.
    Off the top of my head I would look at the Packers the first year brett left and AR took over. Next I would look at the Jets in 2009 and the Falcons in 2008.

    Since these 3 pretty much blow your post out of the water I won't go any farther and pile on.

  7. #267
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Yep, teams have tried it & had success. Are you going to mention those that tried it recently & failed? Didn't think so.

    BTW, I don't have a problem with them starting Ponder if everything pans out & he looks like he might have the tools & the mentality to start. But that won't be known until the beginning of the season.

    That's where you & I differ. You feel we are set with Ponder, Webb & Bomar. I don't.

    Who is Ponder going to learn from?

    If, come the start of the season, Ponder is looking like he will have to sit a year, who will start the remainder of the year? Webb?

    Who will be Webb's veteran presence? Bomar? LOL! Bowmar hasn't seen so much as a snap in a regular season game since he was drafted in 2009.

    Baltimore took a huge risk starting Flacco with only 1 year veteran Troy Smith as their back up. Luckily it happened to work out for them & they didn't have to use Smith. Just because Flacco panned out, doesn't mean Ponder will too.

    Important note here. The Ravens kept Flacco healthy and he started all 16 games. When is the last time the Vikings OL kept a QB healthy for an entire 16 game season?

    Atlanta started Ryan. They took a huge risk starting Ryan with Shockley as their back up. Luckily, it happened to work out for them and they didn't have to use him. Again, just because Ryan panned out, doesn't mean Ponder will too.

    Important note here. The Falcons kept Ryan healthy and he started all 16 games. When is the last time the Vikings OL kept a QB healthy for an entire 16 game season?

    The Vikings haven't kept a QB healthy for an entire season since 2004 & with McKinnie at LT & Loadholt at RT, neither of whom can contain speed rushers, the odds of it happening in 2011 are slim.

    Lets not forget AD's inability to block. How many times has he missed his blocking assignments that allowed rushers thru?

    How many times has our OL allowed rushers past the LOS and allowed AD to be tackled for a loss? Waaaay to damn many!

    If our OL was a lot better, I might have a warm fuzzy that they could keep our QB healthy. But you &n I both know they can't no matter how good you think they are.

    We would have to be insane to start Ponder behind that line without a veteran backup contingency plan.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #268
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096136
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096134
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Several? List those teams that did and didn't have at least one veteran (whose had several starts) on their roster when they did.
    Off the top of my head I would look at the Packers the first year brett left and AR took over. Next I would look at the Jets in 2009 and the Falcons in 2008.

    Since these 3 pretty much blow your post out of the water I won't go any farther and pile on.
    Umm, no it doesn't blow mine out of the water at all. Rodgers was a rookie when he started? Really? Sorry, Rodgers sat behind Favre for 4 years before he started. Not exactly a wet rookie. Apples & oranges.

    Sorry, but no one's gonna buy that.

    The Jets in 2009 went with Sanchez. While the team did go to the playoffs, Sanchez completed only 53.8% of his passes, thru 20 INT's to 12 TD's, had a avg QB rating of only 63. Doesn't exactly scream pro bowler. BTW, his backup was veteran Kellen Clemons who was in his fourth year & had started 8 games.

    Nice try, close.

    I'll give you Atlanta, so that's only 1. He did do well for them without a veteran backup, but they also had a good OL that year that only allowed 17 sacks.

    What do you think the Vikings chances are of giving up only 17 sacks? LOL!

    Lets also not forget Ryan was the 3rd pick in the draft & was projected to go very high. Ponder was projected to go way, way later than 12th.

    Again, don't have a problem with them starting Ponder if come regular season it looks like he knows the system well enough & can handle it, but we won't know that until then.

    We aren't even sure if there'll be OTA's, minicamps or even much of a TC, so there's no way we can say at this point he's our guy without having a veteran backup QB on the roster that can go if he can't. Webb isn't ready yet IMO & Bomar is an absolute unknown.

    The smart decision is to grab a veteran QB out of FA to fall back on if plan A fails.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #269
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096141
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096057
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Yep, teams have tried it & had success. Are you going to mention those that tried it recently & failed? Didn't think so.

    BTW, I don't have a problem with them starting Ponder if everything pans out & he looks like he might have the tools & the mentality to start. But that won't be known until the beginning of the season.

    That's where you & I differ. You feel we are set with Ponder, Webb & Bomar. I don't.

    Who is Ponder going to learn from?

    If, come the start of the season, Ponder is looking like he will have to sit a year, who will start the remainder of the year? Webb?

    Who will be Webb's veteran presence? Bomar? LOL! Bowmar hasn't seen so much as a snap in a regular season game since he was drafted in 2009.

    Baltimore took a huge risk starting Flacco with only 1 year veteran Troy Smith as their back up. Luckily it happened to work out for them & they didn't have to use Smith. Just because Flacco panned out, doesn't mean Ponder will too.

    Important note here. The Ravens kept Flacco healthy and he started all 16 games. When is the last time the Vikings OL kept a QB healthy for an entire 16 game season?

    Atlanta started Ryan. They took a huge risk starting Ryan with Shockley as their back up. Luckily, it happened to work out for them and they didn't have to use him. Again, just because Ryan panned out, doesn't mean Ponder will too.

    Important note here. The Falcons kept Ryan healthy and he started all 16 games. When is the last time the Vikings OL kept a QB healthy for an entire 16 game season?

    The Vikings haven't kept a QB healthy for an entire season since 2004 & with McKinnie at LT & Loadholt at RT, neither of whom can contain speed rushers, the odds of it happening in 2011 are slim.

    Lets not forget AD's inability to block. How many times has he missed his blocking assignments that allowed rushers thru?

    How many times has our OL allowed rushers past the LOS and allowed AD to be tackled for a loss? Waaaay to damn many!

    If our OL was a lot better, I might have a warm fuzzy that they could keep our QB healthy. But you &n I both know they can't no matter how good you think they are.

    We would have to be insane to start Ponder behind that line without a veteran backup contingency plan.
    Is it really safe to assume Atlanta had a better line than we do when they drafted Ryan? Weren't they like 2-14 the year before they drafted him?

  10. #270
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1096130
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096127
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096124
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096122
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096020
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096016
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096013
    He may work out and he might be a bust but when looking at what we needed and what was available I like the pick more and more all the time.
    And you should be able to tell us which after how many games? 6? 12?
    Sooner than the 5 it takes you.:P
    5? I never take that few. I was always an advocate of giving a player several starts & not knee-jerking & pulling him if he makes a mistake. That is what's been debated for a few years.
    OK, so you are going to take ten before you make your decision?

    There was nothing I did that was knee jerk. It doesn't take years and years to know what you have in a QB especially if you can separate what you see in them from the record they have whether it inflates or deflates their actual contribution.

    The TJ experiment is over, the childress debacle is over and now we can get back to the reality that you know pretty quickly what you have in a QB.
    Childress is the one that knee jerked and not you. History has shown us that you simply can't quickly judge a QB

    You tell me bust or keeper......

    GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    14 157 280 56.1 1,997 7.1 18 17 0 416 74.7 56 308 5.5 5 -- --

    W-L record: 3-11
    I'm going to guess keeper. And I assume it's a viking's qb. And a quick google verification confirms me. Why don't we look at Jackson's first 5 years vs. Fran's? And I doubt fran had AP, Shank, Harvin, Rice, and Berrian(?) on his team. We saw jackson play last year with as much talent as he'll ever be around and he just flat out blew ass. So you go ahead and keep picking him #1 in your fantasy team and I'll stand by and laugh.
    Never picked Jackson in my fantasy team ever. Never even stated he was great or would be great. I was an advocate of playing him & not benching him after we lost the 1st to games in '08. But we benched him instead & kept him on the roster for two years after 2008 not knowing if he'd pan out or not. Had we played him, we'd probably not resigned him in 2009 & already have drafted & started a different QB by 2009-2010.

    If they start Ponder & he happens to lose two back to back games to worthy opponents (which Indy & GB were) I won't be screaming for him to be benched or cut like many others will.

    We don't know yet if there is even enough preparation time for him to learn the system, especially if there's no offseason program or whether he's mentally capable of even starting his rookie year or not.

    Again, if he's not, I hope they have a veteran QB on the roster who is, because I don't believe Webb is ready yet either. Day 1 of regular season is a tad late to first start looking for a starting QB if that's how it pans out.

    That's not even taking into consideration or OL's knack of getting our QB's injured.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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