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  1. #221
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    "But McNabb could be our starter for the next three years while we groom Quarterback X!", they say. True, but then he's just sitting on the bench with a clipboard. Just because it worked with Rogers (who was sitting behind Brett Favre by the way) doesn't mean it's always going to work that way. I think when you look at the recent young Quarterback successes of Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez then you should know that putting Ponder under center Week 1 at San Diego is the right move IN THE LONG RUN.
    There are many QB's who would disagree with that.

    Peyton Manning
    Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    Those are guys who started day one. They took their lumps, but took it in stride and played well after that.

    Jason Campbell
    JP Losman
    David Carr
    Byron Leftwich
    All highly rated guys coming out of the draft. They started day one and.. well we all know what happens here.

    Drew Brees
    Philip Rivers
    Eli Manning
    Aaron Rodgers
    Tom Brady (Not a high pick, but still sat and grew)
    Matt Schaub
    Jay Cutler

    All those guys were picked fairly high in the draft except Brady. All sat for at LEAST half a season before being given a chance to start.

    All of those players are considered top-10 (or in Eli's case, top-15) QB's in the league.


    I think it's important to let your rookie QB sit and learn, then come in when he's ready. Especially in a shortened offseason like we'll have.

    Owners just feel the pressure to get their new expensive toy out on the road.

    It's like buying a Dodge Viper in February. YOu wait until it's nice out to drive. If you take it out February, you might have some fun, but odds are you'll crash or ruin it.

  2. #222
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096047
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    "But McNabb could be our starter for the next three years while we groom Quarterback X!", they say. True, but then he's just sitting on the bench with a clipboard. Just because it worked with Rogers (who was sitting behind Brett Favre by the way) doesn't mean it's always going to work that way. I think when you look at the recent young Quarterback successes of Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez then you should know that putting Ponder under center Week 1 at San Diego is the right move IN THE LONG RUN.
    There are many QB's who would disagree with that.

    Peyton Manning
    Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    Those are guys who started day one. They took their lumps, but took it in stride and played well after that.

    Jason Campbell
    JP Losman
    David Carr
    Byron Leftwich
    All highly rated guys coming out of the draft. They started day one and.. well we all know what happens here.

    Drew Brees
    Philip Rivers
    Eli Manning
    Aaron Rodgers
    Tom Brady (Not a high pick, but still sat and grew)
    Matt Schaub
    Jay Cutler

    All those guys were picked fairly high in the draft except Brady. All sat for at LEAST half a season before being given a chance to start.

    All of those players are considered top-10 (or in Eli's case, top-15) QB's in the league.


    I think it's important to let your rookie QB sit and learn, then come in when he's ready. Especially in a shortened offseason like we'll have.

    Owners just feel the pressure to get their new expensive toy out on the road.

    It's like buying a Dodge Viper in February. YOu wait until it's nice out to drive. If you take it out February, you might have some fun, but odds are you'll crash or ruin it.
    You can add Brett Farve to that list also. He sat in Atlanta and I believe he sat behind Majikowski in GB also.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  3. #223
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1096050
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096047
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    "But McNabb could be our starter for the next three years while we groom Quarterback X!", they say. True, but then he's just sitting on the bench with a clipboard. Just because it worked with Rogers (who was sitting behind Brett Favre by the way) doesn't mean it's always going to work that way. I think when you look at the recent young Quarterback successes of Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez then you should know that putting Ponder under center Week 1 at San Diego is the right move IN THE LONG RUN.
    There are many QB's who would disagree with that.

    Peyton Manning
    Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    Those are guys who started day one. They took their lumps, but took it in stride and played well after that.

    Jason Campbell
    JP Losman
    David Carr
    Byron Leftwich
    All highly rated guys coming out of the draft. They started day one and.. well we all know what happens here.

    Drew Brees
    Philip Rivers
    Eli Manning
    Aaron Rodgers
    Tom Brady (Not a high pick, but still sat and grew)
    Matt Schaub
    Jay Cutler

    All those guys were picked fairly high in the draft except Brady. All sat for at LEAST half a season before being given a chance to start.

    All of those players are considered top-10 (or in Eli's case, top-15) QB's in the league.


    I think it's important to let your rookie QB sit and learn, then come in when he's ready. Especially in a shortened offseason like we'll have.

    Owners just feel the pressure to get their new expensive toy out on the road.

    It's like buying a Dodge Viper in February. YOu wait until it's nice out to drive. If you take it out February, you might have some fun, but odds are you'll crash or ruin it.
    You can add Brett Farve to that list also. He sat in Atlanta and I believe he sat behind Majikowski in GB also.
    Also true. Took over and never looked back.

  4. #224
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Either the kid has it or he doesn't. Might as well find out now as apposed to letting him sit a year or two and then finding out.

    By the way, several teams, of late, have used that plan and have been very successfull.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #225
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096030
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Exactly. Say what you will about Culpepper, but the one hting he had going for him when he started, was he had confidence. He trusted himself and his team, he knew what to do and how to get it done.

    Sending Ponder out there, with no NFL experience at all, probably no mini-camps and probably different Training Camps than normal is NOT a good idea.

    with McNabb, at least he's up to speed with the NFL game. He knows the speed of the game, he can read defenses, play the position and be the leader in the huddle. Ponder has far too much work to do.

    He needs time to develop that rapport with his receivers and coaches. Time that the NFL is banning him from using. Ponder will need to earn the respect of teammates. He doesn't have any respect going in, he's not an established player. McNabb is one of the better players in the league, and has had a great career. it will be similar to when Favre showed up, and commanded the respect of his teammates.

    Just a whole bunch of htings like that are important, and no, Bomar doesn't cut it. He doesn't command the respect of a 7 year old.
    So how did Sanchez do when he went out with respect to the "Respect" thing? How about Flacco? Ryan?

    Again, either the kid has it or he doesn't. Lets find out.

    On a side note, were is the crowd that wanted us to go out and get a top pick QB so that we were gauranteed success?

    If you wanted a kid that was gonna sit on the bench and develop for a couple of years we could have waited and got another project or just gone with Webb on the bench learning behind the Vet you guys now seem to crave so bad.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #226
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    My point Vikings fans is to give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and trust me, Ponder is our guy. You just don't know it yet B)
    Just started a new spreadsheet. You and I are the first two on it.

    Not sure what they think the staff drafted him for? If he sits on the bench for a year, he will still have 0 starts at the end of the year. He will still have to earn the respect of the team etc etc etc.

    Again, if he has it, and I think he does, we need to get him on the field now so that we can work out the bugs instead of waiting to work out the bugs a year from now.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #227
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096045
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096013
    A bad pick? Compared to what? I will say it now that he will be at least as good as 2 of the 3 guys drafted ahead of him and he may end up better than all 3 of them.

    What makes taking Ponder at 12 such a bad thing while taking Newton at 1, Locker at 8 and Gabbert at ten worthwhile? Ponder was a 5 year player and started for what, 3 years and had success for the whole time.


    And while Fairley is a hell of an athlete he isn't a sure thing either considering he had only a 1 year track record in College, Amakamura had zero INT's and we needed a CB who can increase our INT rate and we have one high dollar LT and a 2nd year RT so taking another OT at that spot means we need to trade one of those in an uncertain market.

    I looked at Ponder a lot in the pre draft and had him rated higher than Newton, Gabbert and Locker and was the happiest fan in the great white north when Locker was taken at 8 and off the board.

    He may work out and he might be a bust but when looking at what we needed and what was available I like the pick more and more all the time.
    Excellent post. What a lot of fans don't seem to realize is that in an ideal situation we would have taken BPA in round one then taken Ponder in Round 2 (that is, the ideal situation involving drafting Ponder as your quarterback). Given the circumstances with no trade offers the Vikings did what they had to do to get their guy and when you get a new coach it doesn't take John Gruden to tell you your first pick is to draft your new starting quarterback. I also felt a huge sigh of relief when Locker's name was called as I honestly think he's going to be a bust just like Newton IMO.

    Another key point with the likely frustration of this pick amongst fans was how poorly we finished in 2010 and how many holes our team needed to fill. My feeling is what is the point of getting a stopgap quarterback like McNabb and taking BPA if you're just going to end up back here anyway next year when once again you're back in the same position of needing a franchise quarterback? "But McNabb could be our starter for the next three years while we groom Quarterback X!", they say. True, but then he's just sitting on the bench with a clipboard. Just because it worked with Rogers (who was sitting behind Brett Favre by the way) doesn't mean it's always going to work that way. I think when you look at the recent young Quarterback successes of Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez then you should know that putting Ponder under center Week 1 at San Diego is the right move IN THE LONG RUN. Rolling the dice each year with a veteran Quarterback in the hopes of getting to the Super Bowl has worked how many times? In recent memory all I can think of is Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

    My point Vikings fans is to give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and trust me, Ponder is our guy. You just don't know it yet B)
    You just moved up my list of favorite posters.

    Unfortunately the fans have become so accustomed to failure by the Tjack experiment and the laundry list of guys that cycled under QB during the Chilly tenure that they have a hard time grasping that a QB can step in and play in year one if he has enough team support around him as evidenced by Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez, Bradford and even Rothlisberger who started very early in his rookie year and did just fine. If we tweak the starting OL and either keep Rice or add a vet like Ocho he will do just fine and we are not going to win the division or the SB this year anyway with the way our division is stacked so McNabb isn't going to come here anyway. And certainly not when he knows the fans will be calling for him to be benched when he makes his first INT.
    An optimistic Floyd, can't remember the last time I saw that on these forums. This is the best time of the year for it.

  8. #228
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096060
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    My point Vikings fans is to give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and trust me, Ponder is our guy. You just don't know it yet B)
    Just started a new spreadsheet. You and I are the first two on it.

    Not sure what they think the staff drafted him for? If he sits on the bench for a year, he will still have 0 starts at the end of the year. He will still have to earn the respect of the team etc etc etc.

    Again, if he has it, and I think he does, we need to get him on the field now so that we can work out the bugs instead of waiting to work out the bugs a year from now.
    I think you start him when he is ready to start. That may be week one, week 4, week 12 or 2012. It's silly to sit here and say he will be ready when we have never seen him on an NFL field throwing to NFL recievers against an NFL defense(San Diego has a very complex defense designed to get after the QB).

    I say bring in a vet, McNabb if possible, and let them compete in training camp and preseason. Make Ponder earn the starting role, don't just give it to him. That is one of the things everyone complained about TJack, he was given the job without any real competition.

    Starting a guy simply because he was a first round pick is silly. Start a guy only when you think he is ready and makes the team better. There is no way to know right now whether or not he will be ready.

  9. #229
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096059
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096030
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096015
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1095970
    Quote Originally Posted by "Culpepper_4717" #1095853
    Culpepper: Remove pressure to start Ponder

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/120989989.html
    Of course Pepp would say that. Hell, he never ever really did get the whole concept of reading the whole defense.

    Ponder, on the other hand, seems to be smart enough to figure that one out with some coaching.

    In the end, I think its a player by player decision based on how you feel the kid learns the best. By the books or by doing during real game situations.

    Peyton sucked his first 8 or 9 games (my memory Midge). Aikmen, same same. Heck even Sanchez sucked his first year. None of them were permanantly marred for going through the school of hard knocks.

    I think you can put Ponder on the field, with this team and win.
    I think Culpepper is right. Your comment on his ability to read or not read defenses has nothing to do with it.

    It's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Not only to start but to carry a team without, so much as a veteran QB on the teams roster to learn from or that can come in and lead the team if Ponder can't. There's no one to back him up or give him advice or to learn from.

    This is what you want this year. This is your plan....

    Keep in mind there may be no OTA', minicamps & perhaps a limited TC &/or preseason.

    Start Ponder. Zero NFL experience/snaps

    Back him up with Webb. 2 career starts, 89 career regular season NFL pass attemps.

    Back Webb up with Bowmar. 2 partial years in the NFL. 0 regular season snaps, 0 passes.

    LOL! Great plan! AYFKM!!!!
    Exactly. Say what you will about Culpepper, but the one hting he had going for him when he started, was he had confidence. He trusted himself and his team, he knew what to do and how to get it done.

    Sending Ponder out there, with no NFL experience at all, probably no mini-camps and probably different Training Camps than normal is NOT a good idea.

    with McNabb, at least he's up to speed with the NFL game. He knows the speed of the game, he can read defenses, play the position and be the leader in the huddle. Ponder has far too much work to do.

    He needs time to develop that rapport with his receivers and coaches. Time that the NFL is banning him from using. Ponder will need to earn the respect of teammates. He doesn't have any respect going in, he's not an established player. McNabb is one of the better players in the league, and has had a great career. it will be similar to when Favre showed up, and commanded the respect of his teammates.

    Just a whole bunch of htings like that are important, and no, Bomar doesn't cut it. He doesn't command the respect of a 7 year old.
    So how did Sanchez do when he went out with respect to the "Respect" thing? How about Flacco? Ryan?

    Again, either the kid has it or he doesn't. Lets find out.
    Difference is, those guys had a whole offseason to work with the team. Ponder won't

    On a side note, were is the crowd that wanted us to go out and get a top pick QB so that we were gauranteed success?
    PIcking your words. Higher pick = better chance of a successful quarterback. Nobody said anything about being Peyton Manning on day one.

    If you wanted a kid that was gonna sit on the bench and develop for a couple of years we could have waited and got another project or just gone with Webb on the bench learning behind the Vet you guys now seem to crave so bad.
    Yeah, and then we stick him out and he bombs. At least with a top-15 pick, you sit him, then let him play, odds are very good he'll play well.

  10. #230
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    Re: The Official Christian Ponder Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1096069
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096060
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1096034
    My point Vikings fans is to give it time. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and trust me, Ponder is our guy. You just don't know it yet B)
    Just started a new spreadsheet. You and I are the first two on it.

    Not sure what they think the staff drafted him for? If he sits on the bench for a year, he will still have 0 starts at the end of the year. He will still have to earn the respect of the team etc etc etc.

    Again, if he has it, and I think he does, we need to get him on the field now so that we can work out the bugs instead of waiting to work out the bugs a year from now.
    I think you start him when he is ready to start. That may be week one, week 4, week 12 or 2012. It's silly to sit here and say he will be ready when we have never seen him on an NFL field throwing to NFL recievers against an NFL defense(San Diego has a very complex defense designed to get after the QB).

    I say bring in a vet, McNabb if possible, and let them compete in training camp and preseason. Make Ponder earn the starting role, don't just give it to him. That is one of the things everyone complained about TJack, he was given the job without any real competition.

    Starting a guy simply because he was a first round pick is silly. Start a guy only when you think he is ready and makes the team better. There is no way to know right now whether or not he will be ready.
    I understand all of your points. Quick question (and a follow-up).

    1. Is Newton ready to start?

    2. Will the Panthers start him, and if so, why?

    Again, for me, I believe the staff drafted this kid because they believe he is ready. If that is the case, what good does it do to bring in a vet to start or to add competition?

    Don't you kindof send a mixed signal if you do that, possibly making matters even worse?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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