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  1. #31
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    Can you tell me why Speilman didn't take a flyer on Geathers in the seventh round?
    I'm not sure. Gonna throw the ole "Scheme" thing at ya.

    A couple of years ago our good friend i_bleed tried to convince me we were trying to move a bit towards how the Giants employ their Dlmen and get away from the big fat Warpigs.

    Even though I'm not 100% convinced, I am buying into it a bit more and more each year. Kwame seems to have the speed and everything but I think his size eventually turned some people off.

    If that is true, it would help explain why the last 3 or 4 years we have stayed away from those types of cats in the draft as well as to explain why they drafted Shariff and Hankins. Both are a bit light in the butt to play the positions I believe they were drafted to play but if the scheme change is to remain a 4-3 and get more into a "press man" look, lighter faster DLmen are the "Answer".

    If that makes sense.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I'm not sure. Gonna throw the ole "Scheme" thing at ya.

    A couple of years ago our good friend i_bleed tried to convince me we were trying to move a bit towards how the Giants employ their Dlmen and get away from the big fat Warpigs.

    Even though I'm not 100% convinced, I am buying into it a bit more and more each year. Kwame seems to have the speed and everything but I think his size eventually turned some people off.

    If that is true, it would help explain why the last 3 or 4 years we have stayed away from those types of cats in the draft as well as to explain why they drafted Shariff and Hankins. Both are a bit light in the butt to play the positions I believe they were drafted to play but if the scheme change is to remain a 4-3 and get more into a "press man" look, lighter faster DLmen are the "Answer".

    If that makes sense.
    I guess it does. I thought when we drafted Floyd we were still staying in a tampa two and then they draft Rhodes and Robinson in the previous year which leads me to believe that they might be changing schemes. So I am not sure what they are trying to do here. Rhodes is definitely not your typical tampa two corner by any means.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I guess it does. I thought when we drafted Floyd we were still staying in a tampa two and then they draft Rhodes and Robinson in the previous year which leads me to believe that they might be changing schemes. So I am not sure what they are trying to do here. Rhodes is definitely not your typical tampa two corner by any means.
    Ahhhhh but he is.

    He definitely can't be classified as a "Shut Down" CB thats for sure. He is physical with the WR's at the line, but if he tries to run with them he usually gets in trouble with penalties.

    As I said in another thread, his forte is knowing how to force the WR's inside of the zone and knowing when to hand them off and engage back to the other guys coming back into his zone (i.e a back or TE coming out late).

    In the end, don't confuse the "He is physical" with shut down. Although he can do it, it isn't his strength.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Ahhhhh but he is.

    He definitely can't be classified as a "Shut Down" CB thats for sure. He is physical with the WR's at the line, but if he tries to run with them he usually gets in trouble with penalties.

    As I said in another thread, his forte is knowing how to force the WR's inside of the zone and knowing when to hand them off and engage back to the other guys coming back into his zone (i.e a back or TE coming out late).

    In the end, don't confuse the "He is physical" with shut down. Although he can do it, it isn't his strength.
    I did not see much of him but from all the information I gathered he was a basic one trick pony in "press man". So this would be news to me that he is better in the tampa two. Good to know, the skinny I got on him was he was a great press man but could be had on double moves and has trouble with making up ground. Has great sraight line speed but is stiff in the hips (tough getting out of his breaks) and may lose his guy. So I was not impressed as much as others with this pick. Any other info that I can use , my firend. (Marrdroese)

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  5. #35
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I did not see much of him but from all the information I gathered he was a basic one trick pony in "press man". So this would be news to me that he is better in the tampa two. Good to know, the skinny I got on him was he was a great press man but could be had on double moves and has trouble with making up ground. Has great sraight line speed but is stiff in the hips (tough getting out of his breaks) and may lose his guy. So I was not impressed as much as others with this pick. Any other info that I can use , my firend. (Marrdroese)
    He is pretty good at eating up ground, but that is after he has handed his guy off and tries to get back to the guy that is entering is zone underneath (i.e. TE/RB/FB).

    And he is really good at routing his WR off the line. Thats the physical part that gets hyped on most of the "Internet" sites but as you said, he does struggle with man to man but it isn't like he completely sucks at it.

    Is suspect that as they get him some NFL coaching, they will over come some of those issues (i.e. aggressiveness on double moves).
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    I did not see much of him but from all the information I gathered he was a basic one trick pony in "press man". So this would be news to me that he is better in the tampa two. Good to know, the skinny I got on him was he was a great press man but could be had on double moves and has trouble with making up ground. Has great sraight line speed but is stiff in the hips (tough getting out of his breaks) and may lose his guy. So I was not impressed as much as others with this pick. Any other info that I can use , my firend. (Marrdroese)
    I think he will work out well in man or zone. Florida St played both, and he did well at both. You can pick on issues he had in both coverages like most prospects, but he looks to be a really good pick for us. If Cook can stay healthy and Rhodes can pick up the NFL game fairly quick, they will make a nice set off bookends for us and allow us to do more things on defense.

    Hopefully Robinson can take the next step forward as well. The coaches never tried him at nickel last year, despite our glaring need when Winfield went down. This is probably his best shot at significant playing time, so I would guess they will give him more time at it this offseason? It's quite a bit different than playing outsdie though and usually requires a more physically oriented player (jamming receivers, run support, blitzing...). Then again, he might just remain a depth outside corner?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    I believe it was better than average. We got players (who were all as far as I know) projected to go higher than we picked them & they were all player positions of need. In some cases great need.
    This is about where I am with it as well.

    I agree that not getting a starting caliber MLB was a loss, but in the end. We nabbed what certainly could be THREE starters in that first round. Floyd falling to us changed are strategy for sure and we had no choice but to take someone of that talent level in that spot. He is an absolute steal.

    All this talk about giving up FOUR picks for Patterson is wrong. We gave up three (which I agree was a decent amount) but you can't count the second round pick ... we turned it into a first round pick. So we gave up our third, fourth and a seventh to get up and get a guy we clearly wanted ... I definitely am not sweating a third and fourth rounder when it nets a guy you clearly want pretty badly.

    MLB is never a big draft spot because, honestly, a lot of "slower" OLBs end up there anyway. I would have liked Te'o, Minter or Ogletree, but none of them are projected to be unreal talents ... and Floyd and Patterson have considerably more upside.

    The Rhodes pick was perplexing a little. But in a pass happy league. A large, fast corner who is projected to be able to handle a ton of man-to-man assignments ... what is not to like about that?

    All that said ... I don't think the Chargers draft has any god damn thing to do with the Vikings draft. I think the Chargers did very well, but I also can see Te'o completely failing to be worth a damn as a possibility and Fluker is definitely a little bit of a reach where they took him. If he stays at RT and becomes a Pro Bowler ... still a reach. You don't draft RTs in the first round. You draft LTs there.

    I would give the Chargers a very good grade and give the Vikes a pretty solid grade as well. We also addressed something that should have been done a few years ago ... punter. At least we can pick the "best of the two" in camp/preseason now.

  8. #38
    Flair Hay is offline Rookie
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    Not sure how they will deploy the corners this year. Saw we added Jacob Lacey as well so at least we can hopefully have 5 NFL backup calibre guys instead of getting torched with Sapp/Sherels in the dime every time we have a corner injured.

    Robinson seems to make the most sense but against bigger tight ends maybe Jefferson's size gives him the edge. Competition in camp likely decides who plays where. Haven't seen a scouting report of Lacey though so maybe his is terribad as well and will just be a camp body.

    I'm just so stoked that we actually have a corner that with some experience can actually be able to compete with Megatron and Marshall. There was nothing we could have done scheme wise last year to make Robinson or Winfield grow 4 inches.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    People People People, don't let our good friend Kevon get you all spun up. He has always contended that Spielman sucks at drafting in the late rounds and contends even more that our coaching staff sucks at developing those players just because we don't have 100% success with everyone of our picks.

    As I said in another "Draft" thread.....



    Why Vikings' 2013 Draft Is Phenomenal

    In the end, could we have added better LB'rs if we wouldn't have given up the picks for Patterson? Sure, just like we could have added better OLmen as well but instead we got a very dynamic play maker that should help us on punts, kickoffs, passing attack and even the running game if your coaching staff can figure out how to use him that many ways.
    I would say our ability to find quality players ( not just viking starters) is well developed. Again I am not against the trade up into the first round but what we gave up in this draft was possibly 2 quality players. I only mentioned the Chargers did as good as us with their 3 picks by sitting put.

    Those that said the Fluker was a reach... you're dreaming. The kid might enter the league as the best RT in the business (atleast at run blocking) Again, Floyd was moved up after the combine and everyone is eatting it. The kid was never gonna be drafted that high and just because Maylock and Co said so doesn't make him a top 5 pick. The kid was the 3rd or 4th best DT period.

    You can't denied that the Chargers played their cards well and equaled a draft of a team with 2 first rounders. The LBs that we drafted in the 4th and later rounds are there for a reason. Hodges is 6'1 240...with a lean build. He won't get much bigger. He ran a 4.70 in the combine. 9'11 in the jump = lack of explosion. He doesn't empress me

    Lets not even talk about the fact we did not even bring in a guy to groom at QB. Your job as a GM is not to build the self esteem of your QB but rather to build your team. What do we ahve at QB? 11 picks and we don't draft a QB? Even a late round guy? We draft 1 wr!!! 1 Freaking WR. Arguably the worst WR corps in the league but we draft 1 WR. So we have Jennings, Wright, Childs (coming off career ending injury) Patterson and Simpson. What happens if 1 of those guys go down? We are right back where we started.

    Liked the Floyd pick up, drafted right where I thought he should go. Worried about College production. Abysmal
    Liked the Rhodes pick ( would have taken Te'o or Oglee over him though.
    Patterson- liked that we drafted a WR, liked that we got him. Worried about experience and production.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Those that said the Fluker was a reach... you're dreaming. The kid might enter the league as the best RT in the business (atleast at run blocking) Again, Floyd was moved up after the combine and everyone is eatting it. The kid was never gonna be drafted that high and just because Maylock and Co said so doesn't make him a top 5 pick. The kid was the 3rd or 4th best DT period.
    No offense, but Maylock and Co have a helluva lot better track record at analyzing players coming into the draft than you do. Just because you say he was the 3rd or 4th best DT doesn't make it so. I know better than to blindly trust the talking heads on TV, but in this instance the majority opinion BY FAR is that Floyd was a great pick and a steal in at the spot we got him. There was a run on OT that pushed him and some other higher rated players down - THAT is what he was there.

    As far as taking Te'o over Rhodes in the first round... Te'o dropped to late in the second. I think we got a much better value pick with Rhodes. Especially when you consider the fact that we played in a 2 LB set almost 60% of the time last year (something I didn't know until tonight).

    And yes, I can deny that the chargers had a draft that was as good as ours. I don't agree with that even a bit.

    Just like last year, Spielman nailed this draft. His FA was questionable once again (although I did like the jennings and Cassel pickups). But trying to argue that he isn't a draft ninja is futile IMHO.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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