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  1. #11
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Definitely good news to read.

    Every dime at this point helps.

  2. #12
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    If memory serves, whatever the league contributes to an individual franchise for their stadium has historically been a low/no interest loan program, not an outright 'no strings attached' contribution. It will be interesting to see what form this particular aid will take in light of the rationale the owners are presenting to the players as regards that "additional billion off the top" - In that sense the current talking points between owners and players could work to the Vikes and fans benefit.

  3. #13
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.

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  4. #14
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.

  5. #15
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097822
    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.
    And yet the team brings in over $30m each year to the state and community. So that number is negated in about 10 years (faster if the salary cap continues to go up).

    And even though Wilf might be from New York, the Vikings, and all of its players and staff, are employed in Minnesota.
    Zeus wrote:
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  6. #16
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097822
    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.
    and if you don't, then that millionaire (yes, that's right, Zygi's net worth is far less than a billion) goes buh-bye.

    It's all about how much it means to you.

    It's one thing that defines American culture. They want everything, but no way in hell they'd pay any part of it.

    Look at it this way, in 10 years, when the LA Vikings are doing well, you're going to want a new football team here. It happened with he North Stars, it happened with the Lakers, and if something doesn't change it will happen with the Vikings. All because some people don't want to (note, not can't) pay 0.5% more on some items to keep something they love in their home state.

    Have your principles if you want, but know much more of your taxes go towards stuff that has minimal effect on you. Stuff you probably won't ever use, need or even want.

    Something to think of: Lets pretend all of this is taxed.

    You buy a cup of coffee int he morning for $1.50. You pay 0.75 cents towards the Stadium

    Buy a $20,000 car, you're giving $100 to the Stadium. Hell, if that's such a big issue, negotiate with the salesman to take $100 off to secure the sale. I'm sure he/she'd do it. $100 isn't very much when you're talking about a $20K car

    Buy a $400,000 house? A measley $2000 towards the stadium. Again, if you're buying a $400,000 house, I think you can manage the tax, especially considering you likely have a mortgage, therefore won't pay it all off right away anyway.

    If the option was for me to pay 0.5% extra on SOME items I buy, in order to have the Vikings in my hometown, I'd do it, no questions asked.

    You're of the belief that Wilf should pay for this all himself, which is your opinion. But note, most owners do not pay for a full stadium. There's probably maybe one or two in the NFL, and only a handful in all of North American pro sports who have that kind of cash just lying around to build a billion dollar stadium.

    Minnesotans use the deficit as an excuse, ok. Where will that deficit go when the State starts losing out on all the income taxes from players (that itself accounts for quite a large amount), property taxes, food/hotel taxes, etc. They need to come up with some type of solution, and getting rid of a major contributor is not a solution, it's another problem.


    What they SHOULD have done years ago is set up a division like they did in Arizona. They have the Arizona Sports and TOurism Authority, division of the Arizona Government, that owns parks, sporting venues, etc. and host events. They make money, keep the money they make, and they funded/own Arizona's new Stadium. Taxpayers didn't have to contribute very much except for the initial startup cost of that division (much less than paying for a stadium).

    However, it is far too late now. Since this wansn't sorted out 10 years ago when it was first becoming an issue, since people kept putting it off, it's now a problem for most people.

  7. #17
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1097823
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097822
    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.
    And yet the team brings in over $30m each year to the state and community. So that number is negated in about 10 years (faster if the salary cap continues to go up).

    And even though Wilf might be from New York, the Vikings, and all of its players and staff, are employed in Minnesota.
    I'm just saying breaking it down to the individual is a bit silly. We're are talking about $300,000,000.000, not chump change.
    If we want to divide that by the state then let's look at the benefit of $30,000,000.00 a year and divide that by 5,000,000 residents. Seems the Vikings only contribute an average of $6 a person. $300,000,000.00 invested so that we each get $6 seems kinda a silly.

    I'm not even against public funding for a stadium, but I see both sides to the issue.

  8. #18
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097827
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1097823
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097822
    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.
    And yet the team brings in over $30m each year to the state and community. So that number is negated in about 10 years (faster if the salary cap continues to go up).

    And even though Wilf might be from New York, the Vikings, and all of its players and staff, are employed in Minnesota.
    I'm just saying breaking it down to the individual is a bit silly. We're are talking about $300,000,000.000, not chump change.
    If we want to divide that by the state then let's look at the benefit of $30,000,000.00 a year and divide that by 5,000,000 residents. Seems the Vikings only contribute an average of $6 a person. $300,000,000.00 invested so that we each get $6 seems kinda a silly.

    I'm not even against public funding for a stadium, but I see both sides to the issue.
    Don't forget, a large chunk of that 250-300 mil will go right back into the state the first 2 years of the investment. The concrete will be purchased locally, as will most of the piping, wiring, possibly the steel, etc. Also consider there will be a lot of jobs created to build it. Not only is that state income tax, but also clears unemployment checks as the construction industry is brutal right now. those workers will now be spending money on work clothes, food to take to work, roach coaches, maybe local restaurants for lunch. After getting back on their feet, they may decide to take the family out for a nice dinner on occasion, helping out restaurants in the area.
    There are a lot of people in the construction industry out of work right now. A project this size can really help out in that area.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #19
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Isn't the state's contribution of 300M 100% user taxes? How can anybody biatch about that? The .5% sales tax increase is for Ramsey County's contribution and therefore the increase in sales tax would be limited to that county only.

    People hear public "funding for stadium" and "deficit" and immediately put up blinders.

  10. #20
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    Re: NFL will help with Vikings stadium

    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1097833
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097827
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1097823
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1097822
    Quote Originally Posted by "Traveling_Vike" #1097809
    Let me see if I have this straight. The taxpayers are up in arms over a proposed .5% sales tax hike, right?

    OK, I get it, nobody likes to pay more taxes. Hell. people scream over smaller school taxes, and that's a much bigger benefit overall than a football stadium, IMO.

    But sriously, it's half a percent increase. Do the math. For every $1000 spent on taxable items, it costs the taxpayer an extra FIVE DOLLARS. The average family spends how much in a year on taxable items? Let's be generous and say $100,000. The additional takes on this amout would be $500 over the course of a year. That's a significant amount for lots of folks, but not for those dropping 100k already.

    And remember, this only applies to taxable items. Are groceries taxable in Minnesota? They aren't here in Indiana. How about drive-thru pickup food? Not here. Those two together account for the major portion of most average folk's expenses. So really, it only hits people on major purchases like homes, vehicles, furniture and major appliances.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel the pinch as much as anyone, moreso than most being still unemployed, but in all honesty, how much is this really going to cost any given individual?

    When it came up here and in Arizona, I gladly voted in favor of small increases. In the long run, it cost me very little, and even less in comparison to the benefits. And I've been to all of two games between those two locations.
    It's really not about taxes. It's about giving a giant check to a Billionare from new york while dealing with a 5billion dollar deficit.

    It's $300,000,000.00. Yes if you divide that by 3million it is a small amount but it's still a very large amount.
    And yet the team brings in over $30m each year to the state and community. So that number is negated in about 10 years (faster if the salary cap continues to go up).

    And even though Wilf might be from New York, the Vikings, and all of its players and staff, are employed in Minnesota.
    I'm just saying breaking it down to the individual is a bit silly. We're are talking about $300,000,000.000, not chump change.
    If we want to divide that by the state then let's look at the benefit of $30,000,000.00 a year and divide that by 5,000,000 residents. Seems the Vikings only contribute an average of $6 a person. $300,000,000.00 invested so that we each get $6 seems kinda a silly.

    I'm not even against public funding for a stadium, but I see both sides to the issue.
    Don't forget, a large chunk of that 250-300 mil will go right back into the state the first 2 years of the investment. The concrete will be purchased locally, as will most of the piping, wiring, possibly the steel, etc. Also consider there will be a lot of jobs created to build it. Not only is that state income tax, but also clears unemployment checks as the construction industry is brutal right now. those workers will now be spending money on work clothes, food to take to work, roach coaches, maybe local restaurants for lunch. After getting back on their feet, they may decide to take the family out for a nice dinner on occasion, helping out restaurants in the area.
    There are a lot of people in the construction industry out of work right now. A project this size can really help out in that area.
    Also remember that that 600 million that the state and local govt has to kick in is not the only cost to the project. From the day the doors open the state and local entities are going to have to staff it, pay for the utilities, repairs and ongoing maintenance. So while the 30 million in revenue that NDPaul brought up might look initially like it will pay off the stadium fairly quickly the reality is there is not that much left after the operating expenses are taken into account.


    The part that is the most interesting to me is that not one single cash flow, P&L or other report has ever been issued that would show spending that amount of money on the building is going to be able to be repaid by the product on the field. If one person would produce that for me and if the projections were realistic I would have no problem with it.

    What we do know for certain is that the dome, even when paid for and used to host 3 major teams, would not have cash flowed for several years if they did not take the maximum depreciation schedule on a yearly basis and once the building is fully depreciated that option s no longer available. THAT is the one elephant in the room that made it most likely that a new facility would be built.

    That being said, My whole point all along has been and remains to be how, if the above is true, are they going to be able to cash flow a substantially more expensive facility without the help of other teams supplying revenue?

    For all of you experts out there who are convinced it is such a good deal, please show me the money so to speak.

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