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  1. #31
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103629
    It's obvious neither of us will concede to the other, so let's leave it at that.
    That's not the PPO way.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #32
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    If Ponder is having trouble adjusting to the NFL speed of training camp then he's in store for one hell of a surprise.

  3. #33
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103540
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1103517

    And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.
    I am not sure McNabb is what I would want in a mentor for a QB. His mechanics are terrible and he has no desire to change them. He is also very lethargic in practice IMHO. Webb, OTOH was right up front and ready to go all of the time, plus he was interacting with the WR's and showing leadership.

    Marty would say( and I agree) that the QB coach and not some washed up vet, should be all a rookie QB needs to develop.



    Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.
    Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?
    There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.

    Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.

    The Falcons took a very high risk going with Ryan with not only no veteran QB presence, but no 2nd option at QB period. He was the only QB on the team.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #34
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1103694
    There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.
    Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat. Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.

    What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.

    Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.
    That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.


    The Falcons took a very high risk going with Ryan with not only no veteran QB presence, but no 2nd option at QB period. He was the only QB on the team.
    They are taking a risk now. Who is his backup this season if he gets hurt?? That is a totally separate issue from the discussion.

  5. #35
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103717
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1103694
    There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.
    Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat.
    I remember a LOT of people claiming bust well before the draft due to work ethic alone. There are hit or miss guys. Guys like Reggie Bush, who have first-overall potential, but on the flip side, there's a good chance they'll be average at best. With Ryan, common thinking said that you would be getting an alright QB at worst, great QB at best.
    Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.
    Again, you're comparing Bradford, a consensus #1 pick to Ponder, a guy many had going in the second.
    What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.
    So you're saying if someone can'tp lay day 1 they can't play day 1500 either? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
    Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.
    That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.
    not life or death? Give a guy the entire offseason off, with no coaching guidace and you think he'll do even OK? There are guys who go for years of training and don't even do OK, what makes you think Ponder is so special?

    Oh, I know, he's a Viking, therefore must be the steal of the draft. Got it.

  6. #36
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103719
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103717
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1103694
    There are rare exceptions. But pease don't confuse a QB who was picked 3rd overall with another QB who was projected to go mid 2nd round.
    Projections mean precisely squat. Jamarcus Russell was the top overall pick and he didn't end up being squat.
    I remember a LOT of people claiming bust well before the draft due to work ethic alone. There are hit or miss guys. Guys like Reggie Bush, who have first-overall potential, but on the flip side, there's a good chance they'll be average at best. With Ryan, common thinking said that you would be getting an alright QB at worst, great QB at best.
    Joe Flacco was the 18th pick in the draft(6 later than Ponder) and he started day 1. It is less rare lately than it was in the past it seems and there are more examples every year of players starting day one. Bradford as well.
    Again, you're comparing Bradford, a consensus #1 pick to Ponder, a guy many had going in the second.
    What we are really talking about is not whether he is ready or not but whether he is capable or not. If he is capable he will be OK whether he starts day 1 or year 3. If he is not going to cut it he won't work out day 1 and he won't work out in 5 years.
    So you're saying if someone can'tp lay day 1 they can't play day 1500 either? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
    Ryan also had the benefit of a full offseason program. Ponder will have had a little over a week with an intact team heading into the 1st preseason game.
    That preparation helps but it isn't life or death. He would have a slower start but by the time the final quarter of the season rolls around he will be showing if he has what it takes or not.I would rather see that right away than to leave him on the bench for 3 years with no idea if he will ever be a legitimate starter.
    not life or death? Give a guy the entire offseason off, with no coaching guidace and you think he'll do even OK? There are guys who go for years of training and don't even do OK, what makes you think Ponder is so special?

    Oh, I know, he's a Viking, therefore must be the steal of the draft. Got it.
    Now you are just being dumb for Christs sake. It's a goddam game, just relax for a change and if you are that agitated wait until Marty comes back. Otherwise find another stump to piss on.

  7. #37
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103530
    Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

    Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

    McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.

    Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

    So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

    What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

    I guess we're the Vikings though, and there is something to be said about our perpetual loop of washed up 'safe option' veterans.
    Very wise post.

  8. #38
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    At the end of the day there are reports that the speed of the NFL game is making the adjustment tough on the kid.

    Here's my reason for giving McNabb the first crack at this and allowing Ponder to learn on the sideline...

    I don't trust that O-Line. If Ponder is thrown to the wolves and the speed of the NFL is already having an impact on him, can someone guarantee me that my QB of the future won't be injured and lost for his first season or worse?

    If McNabb gets injured so be it. Let the kid take the reins without pressure when he HAS to go in because of an injury.

  9. #39
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103518
    Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

    I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

    that's just crazy talk!
    Nope, as always, you completely misunderstood.

    What Marrdro said was that he would understand if they went ahead and didn't opt to sign a "Top Tier" FA QB for this year and opted to go with Ponder.

    Mostly because of the whole "Ran the scheme in college" discussion.

    On a side note, did anyone see McNabbs contract details? 1 years, 5 mil if he sucks, 7 mil if he doesn't.

    Wouldn't be to hard to start Ponder by week 5 or so if it looks like the 5 mil option will be closer to reality than the 7 mil option.

    By the by, I think Marrdro also said the Ponder should have it figured out by then if he was starting from week 1. Just in case you misunderstood that discussion point as well.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #40
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103530
    Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

    Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.

    McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.

    Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.

    So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.

    What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.

    I guess we're the Vikings though, and there is something to be said about our perpetual loop of washed up 'safe option' veterans.
    The "Someone who has a clue" spreadsheet is always correct........:laugh:

    Good stuff my friend. The best thing is, if Dnabb doesn't work out, it isn't that hard to sit him (5 Mil/6th rounder). If he does work out, we pay him 2 mil more and give up another 6 rounder the following draft.

    Again, not to expensive to let the kid learn.

    As I said, the kid has run the scheme before. He understands what to do with the ball. Its just the speed that he needs to get used to, well that and reading NFL defenses.

    On a side note, from what I've been seeing/hearing/reading, he's moved from the 3rd team to the 2nd and has run with the 1's a bit when Dnabb is over puking on the sidelines.

    The one who's making it hard on him is young Webb. Inaccurate as all get out with the deep throws, but seems to have progressed a bit during the offseason as well.

    Atleast for me, Young Ponder and Webb seem to be what we will all be trusting to run this team in the near future and the future is alot nearer than a few on here want to admit.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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