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  1. #11
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103532
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103527
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103523
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103518
    Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

    I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

    that's just crazy talk!
    Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

    I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

    I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.
    The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game?
    Marshall Faulk was inducted into the Pro Football HOF last night.

    Sorry I had to.
    Good point, for whatever reason that slipped my mind. Everything else about that eam sucked. They were #1 overall pick for a reason.

  2. #12
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103535
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103532
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103527
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103523
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103518
    Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

    I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

    that's just crazy talk!
    Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

    I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

    I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.
    The thing is, Manning came to an all-around awful team. We are a far better situation for a QB than the 98 colts were. How much of his poor play was attributed to a crap line, crap receivers and crap run game?
    Marshall Faulk was inducted into the Pro Football HOF last night.

    Sorry I had to.
    Good point, for whatever reason that slipped my mind. Everything else about that eam sucked. They were #1 overall pick for a reason.
    Even though they had Faulk they were terrible team. You don't get the first pick in the draft because you had an abundance of talent on your roster.

  3. #13
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1103517

    And this is why signing a saavy veteran QB to start & for Ponder to sit a year & learn from that veteran is so vitally important to his success.
    I am not sure McNabb is what I would want in a mentor for a QB. His mechanics are terrible and he has no desire to change them. He is also very lethargic in practice IMHO. Webb, OTOH was right up front and ready to go all of the time, plus he was interacting with the WR's and showing leadership.

    Marty would say( and I agree) that the QB coach and not some washed up vet, should be all a rookie QB needs to develop.



    Starting Ponder would have been a mistake & had we went that route he'd be learning from Webb, who is learning himself or learning from Bomar, who has yet to take a snap in a NFL game.
    Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?

  4. #14
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103540

    Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?
    How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?

  5. #15
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103534
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103530
    Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

    Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.
    If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?

    No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.
    McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.
    He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him? Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.
    Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.
    Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.

    So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.
    The logic in that statement simply does not work.
    What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.
    Why would we need another vet next season?

    You really can't go wrong in this situation. McNabb starts this season, if he lights it up and wins a superbowl, Fantastic. He can play next year too in that case. If he plays well, we make playoffs, have a good run, great. If he sucks, then we live with it, Ponder learns some things from a full season of practice, workouts and meetings, then is ready to take over next season. If he gets hurt, then we put in Ponder and see if he is actually ready to go.

    With McNabb starting at the tail end of his career, we keep our future QB injury-free (as it will inevitably happen behind our line) and able to learn the proper way.
    If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?
    It would have meant the team believed he was ready to go. Like they said about Ponder when they picked him in the first. Not going to find the thread but it was something along the lines of Ponder and Dalton being tops on our board because they were most pro ready. Pretty sure it was a Speilman interview.

    No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.
    Ponder was graded as a 4th or 5th and we drafted him in the first? We had him graded as a 1st rounder, who cares what some internet hack as him projected as. The teams going to treat him as a first rounder because that's what he was.

    and yes there are good examples on both sides of the coin for start now vs start later.

    He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him?
    Playing snaps in the NFL won't accomplish anything? lol

    Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.
    And that's just the thing he's not going to step in and woo everyone. History has shown young QBs are going to take their lumps in the NFL, and I'm a strong proponent of letting them take their lumps in their rookie year. When they're expected to suck.

    If Ponder doesn't take a snap his rookie year, and has all that time to watch and learn. There will be some relatively high expectations of him come year 2, and if he's on par to break Peytons interception record he might not even get to finish the season. That would be a damn shame imo. The first QB we've drafted in the first round in over 10 years could be run out of town before he even gets a fair shake.

    Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.
    I'll give you that although McNabb isn't necessarily up to speed on our team and offense. Either QB is going to be further behind in our offense than any starting QB should ever be on week 1.

    Again we should be used to that though, *cough cough Favre*

    The logic in that statement simply does not work.
    It has to be more logical than

    "Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was."

    Why would we need another vet next season?
    We would need another vet because we would have no idea how Ponder will play in the NFL. We surely can't go into next season with just Ponder and Webb with all of a few games experience between them.

  6. #16
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103542
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103534
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103530
    Someones gotta be the next great QB. Why not Ponder? Brees and Brady don't have unreal arm strength, yet they're in that same tier...

    Picking someone in the first does change your expectations, a QB drafted in the first round is usually someone the team looks to make the starter after year one, if not earlier.
    If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?

    No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.
    McNabb is a one year band aid, nothing more, nothing less. We're just as unlikely to win a Superbowl with McNabb this year as we are with Ponder (0.005% chance.) So why not let the one were trying to develop actually develop.
    He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him? Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.
    Ponder missed rookie camp, mini camp and OTAs. Now he's a year behind in his development? I'd say he's a few weeks behind at most. So instead of week 1 I'd expect to see Ponder week 6 at the latest.
    Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.

    So yeah. He will be ready to go this year, and if he's not he should be thrown in anyways so he's ready to go next year.
    The logic in that statement simply does not work.
    What we shouldn't do is try to scrape by with McNabb for 16 games, release him at seasons end and need another veteran next year, just in case Ponder isn't ready, yet again. It will be TJ all over again. Give the kid a shot.
    Why would we need another vet next season?

    You really can't go wrong in this situation. McNabb starts this season, if he lights it up and wins a superbowl, Fantastic. He can play next year too in that case. If he plays well, we make playoffs, have a good run, great. If he sucks, then we live with it, Ponder learns some things from a full season of practice, workouts and meetings, then is ready to take over next season. If he gets hurt, then we put in Ponder and see if he is actually ready to go.

    With McNabb starting at the tail end of his career, we keep our future QB injury-free (as it will inevitably happen behind our line) and able to learn the proper way.
    If we picked Tarvaris Jackson in the first, does that mean he'd be ready to go?
    It would have meant the team believed he was ready to go. Like they said about Ponder when they picked him in the first. Not going to find the thread but it was something along the lines of Ponder and Dalton being tops on our board because they were most pro ready. Pretty sure it was a Speilman interview.
    But what if in a draft, there was really only one pro-ready QB, and a bunch of decent ones. Those decent ones would get reached, and even though they were atop someones board, it does not necessarily mean the team thinks he is ready to go. Thing is, QB is such a hard position to find a solution for, that teams reach, knowing full well that at times, it might take a couple years.
    No. Simply picking a guy early doesn't mean he's NFL ready on day 1. Ponder was graded as probably the fourth or fifth best QB in the draft. We reached for him, plain and simple. Just because we did that does not mean I expect he'll be ready day 1. There's nothing wrong with sitting your first round QB for a year or two. Hell, Eli and Rivers, both top-3 picks sat for at least a full season before they got their shot. Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was.
    Ponder was graded as a 4th or 5th and we drafted him in the first? We had him graded as a 1st rounder, who cares what some internet hack as him projected as. The teams going to treat him as a first rounder because that's what he was.

    and yes there are good examples on both sides of the coin for start now vs start later.
    But did we grade him as a first, or did we grade QB as an absolute need, and in order to get that, we NEEDED to draft early. I think the later. I'm willing to bet if every QB was left on the board, we would not have drafted Ponder. Hell, we might not have gone QB at all.
    He can develop. On the bench. Throwing him to the wolves won't accomplish anything. If there's such a small chance of him winning, then why risk damaging him?
    Playing snaps in the NFL won't accomplish anything? lol
    Worked wonders for TJ didn't it?

    Let McNabb take the hits, guide us to 8-8, then next season Ponder can come in and woo everyone.
    And that's just the thing he's not going to step in and woo everyone. History has shown young QBs are going to take their lumps in the NFL, and I'm a strong proponent of letting them take their lumps in their rookie year. When their expected to suck.
    63.3%, 4000+ yards, 28td 13 int - Rodgers first "Lumpy" season as a starter
    61.7%, 3300+ yards, 22td 9 int - Rivers first "Lumpy" season as a starter
    52.8%, 3700+ yards, 24td 17 int - Eli's first "Lumpy" season as a starter
    63.6%, 3400+ yards, 205d, 14int - Cutler's first "Lumpy" season as a starter.

    Seems to me, these guys have skipped alot of the lumps they woudl have taken their rookie year. Did they struggle at times? Yes. But I firmly believe they are better for having sat their rookie year, or most of it.

    If Ponder doesn't take a snap his rookie year, and has all that time to watch and learn. There will be some relatively high expectations of him come year 2, and if he's on par to break Peytons interception record he might not even get to finish the season. That would be a damn shame imo. The first QB we've drafted in the first round in over 10 years could be run out of town before he even gets a fair shake.
    How is that any different if he starts this season and sucks? Thing is, if he sucks next season, we're not going to run him out of town. (Unless he can't even throw a ball, which I don't see happening) He'll get a few years to establish himself at minimum. All first round QB's do.

    Few weeks? Draft was in April. He missed all of May, June and July. That's 3 months of minicamps, meetings, workouts, OTAs, etc. Things that are especially important for rookies to get in sync with their teammates, get ready for the NFL, meet their coaches, learn the scheme, etc. Ponder was able to do NONE of those things. He's far more than a couple weeks behind.
    I'll give you that although McNabb isn't necessarily up to speed on our team and offense. Either QB is going to be further behind in our offense than any starting QB should ever be on week 1.
    Thing is, McNabb doesn't need to learn the NFL game. Ponder does. McNabb knows how to read an NFL defense, knows how to make adjustments, knows the speed of the game. Ponde rhas a long, long way to go, especially since he lost 3 months of preparation time.
    Again we should be used to that though, *cough cough Favre*
    Seems a healthy Favre managed it just fine.
    The logic in that statement simply does not work.
    It has to be more logical than

    "Both were picked as better QBs than Ponder was."
    Are you saying they weren't? Ryan was almost unanimously scouted as a top-5 pick. No doubt. Ponder... not so much.
    Why would we need another vet next season?
    We would need another vet because we would have no idea how Ponder will play in the NFL. We surely can't go into next season with just Ponder and Webb with all of a few games experience between them.
    Sure, get a backup vet at that point. A guy LIKE Frerotte, Bulger, etc (not exactly them), but a backup who CAN play if needed, but does not expect to. those guys aren't that difficult to fine, most teams with a young QB will have one.

  7. #17
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1103523
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103518
    Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

    I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

    that's just crazy talk!
    Ready to play, is a lot different from ready to step in and put this team on his shoulders. Peyton Manning set the interceptions in a season record his rookie year. He wasn't really ready was he?

    I would say Ponder is in the situation any 1st round QB should be in, ready to step in and learn. Who knows how Peyton's career would have turned out if he wasn't allowed time to overcome that steep learning curve in year one.

    I really think we should be trying, as hard as we can, to develop our QB of the future as opposed to playing another year with a Band-Aid QB that we know will get soggy and fall off.
    Pretty tough to compare Ponder to Peyton Manning, don't you think?
    I really think we ARE trying,as hard as we can, to develope our QB of the future by letting him learn without getting his brains beat in his rookie season.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  8. #18
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103541
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103540

    Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?
    How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?
    He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
    BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
    Your point being?

  9. #19
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103518
    Funny, could have sworn Marrdro said Ponder would be ready, because 'he's a smart cat', and because he has the playbook.

    I was also convinced that a veteran QB would have no positive effect on Ponder. He CERTAINLY wouldn't be "Helping" Ponder learn the game....

    that's just crazy talk!
    Now now

    Marr I believe pegged Tjack as one of the hottest FA QB out this year and he was the first signed, his first outing he had a pick,
    threw wild a couple times
    and
    In one three-play sequence, Jackson fumbled two snaps from center Max Unger and a handoff to running back Leon Washington
    which were chauked up as rust or a bad day for the Seattle gifted (as in the job was
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1102349
    gifted
    to him) starter

    While it isn't really time to compare Ponder to Manning, Brees or Rivers we can look at the guy missing from the roster that was suppose to be the future at one time and compare them and their first days of 2011 well :whistle:

  10. #20
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    Re: NFL speed throws Christian Ponder for a loop

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103573
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1103541
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1103540

    Quick question- Who was the experienced vet that Matt Ryan learned behind when Musgrave was developing him in Atlanta?
    How did Philip Rivers first season as a Charger work out for him?
    He completed 62.5% of his passes for a QB rating of 110.9:P
    BTW his career ratings are 63.7% completions and a QB rating of 97.2 so he was pretty much the QB he is right out of the box.Only his second year was under 60%.
    Your point being?
    on 8 attempts, but nice try.

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