Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 64
  1. #21
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089767
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089764
    Right, so Ap running into a wall of defenders every play isn't run blocking? That isn't poor zone blocking execution? The problem with the ZB scheme, as pointed out by Mr. A as well, is that if one guy misses, the whole line misses. everyone gets out of position, then we need to rely on Peterson to do it all. I saw somewhere, I don't have a link, but Peterson led the league in yards after contact? Or was damn high up there. Why? Because he keeps getting hit in the backfield or within a yard of the LOS.
    You make me work harder answering your quotes that Purple Floyd does. I am gonna give you the nickname Quote instead of him. :laugh:

    AD running into a wall of defenders is a good point, but in alof of instances it was his fault as well. Lets not forget the video of Theenimy coaching him "Tuff Love" on the NFL Network channel.

    Theenimy (and AD) both admitted that he wasn't patient and in most instances, his first two steps didn't set up the blocks the way they should causing the blog you refer to as a wall.

    The OL did mess up. Some of that was poor execution on their part, some of it was poor execution on AD's part and some of it was just good execution on the defenses part.

    In the end, you don't have the rushing yards like we've had since the ZB scheme was installed and the production out of our backup backs without someone doing their job blocking.
    There are cases, yes when he could be more patient and he'd have had a big play. Same can be said for every back in the league. However, do you not find it odd that AP had his best season statistically when he was running as hard and as fast as he could (with a top-flight FB in front of him too?). Many, many plays, if Peterson is more "patient", he'll get hit for a 5 yard loss. I played back, now I'm not going to pretend to be an expert, but there are two different cases. Sometimes, you wait for something to open up. Othertimes, you stick your head down and run forward to salvage what yardage you can.
    No. I could compare Berrian to Rice and come to the conclusion Berrian is a better player based on that logic. You compare using the best method to fairly compare a guy. Comparing a player to a guy in an entirely different scheme used an entirely different way will not provide a valid comparason. Hell, culpepper had a hell of a season, he should be our QB. I mean, it's all about comparing a player with another player at a given point in time right?
    What? How does that have anything to do with putting Toby out there in 3rd down situations?

    You said he didn't work. I used CT, a third down back, in a offense that is designed for the back as an example that he did just fine in that role.

    Mark my words, you are gonna like you some Toby before his career is over.
    For the record, I don't dislike Toby. I don't like where we drafted him, and he's not made out to be a 3rd down receiving back. We have two better options on the roster, but don't use them.

    As for your comparison, it's just like comparing Microsoft's Revenues to Texaco. You're going to get two very different numbers, ratios, etc. You can't really compare them as well as you can compare say Microsoft and Apple, or Texaco and BP.
    I think your just hung up on his size, like you are the OLmen, believing that he is slow, when in fact he is 1/10th of a second slower than AD in his forty times.
    And, last I checked, 40 times mean shit in the NFL. anybody can run a good 40 time with enough practice. It's about how fast you play with pads and 21 other guys on the field. Toby is not 1/10th of a second slower than AD on the field. AD is one of the fastest guys out there. Toby is not.

    However, you want to do 40 times, I did a little research

    AD's Combine 40 time: 4.4
    AD's best: 4.37 (pro day)

    Gerharts Combine time:4.53
    Gerharts range: 4.47-4.62 through pro days and combine

    AD is a 4.37-4.4 runner, Gerhart is a 4.5. In comparason, Mike Williams ran a 4.53. I suppose you're going to tell me he plays fast too?
    Sure it does. It's showing a guy with the right skillset can be much better than a guy doing something he's not used to and not designed to do. That's why I want to see more of Booker and less Gerhart. Gerhart has his time and place, but 3rd and long is not it.
    Why?

    He had 5 attempts in situations were he needed to get 10+ yards and avg 13.4 yards (AD had 18.3) in those attempts. 3rd and long he avg 7.8 yards (AD had 6.5 yds)
    Yes, he had 5 attempts. You know as well as I do that's not enough to call an average. It's the same thing you say about TJ, how he's going to be a top flight QB one day, just needs time. Booker needs more than 5 attempts to determine if he's good or not. He does however have the hands, speed and quickness to make guys miss and get a first down, much like Taylor does, and much like Gerhart does not.
    Is he AD? Hell no. But for a rook with limited touches, he did fine. With some offseason work, his numbers should only go up.
    Pretty much what I just said

    Hmm... two different teams, with two different players. yeah, that's the same role. I'd say the fact he did significantly better here, then dropped off with the Bears would indicate something is much different. I'd say the fact he did well here, while Gerhart didn't would indicate something is wrong. Gerhart was not a pass catcher in College, why do you think he'd all of a sudden be successful at it here in the Pros? We had the same deal with Peterson, he was never much of a receiver in OU, that's why we had Taylor.
    I didn't say I expected him to excel at it coming out of college. Again, twisting my words. Go check my stuff on him this year, you will see that I was very surprised when he did well at it.
    Yes, well if you don't expect him to do well and think maybe somebody can do better, put the guy who can do better in. I have no problem with Gerhart. He can be a great change of pace guy, pounding it on 1st, 2nd and 3rd and short-Med. But on 3rd and long, he's not the guy I'd expect on the field. We're not fooling anybody


    Umm, no, his first TD was not a screen play. It was a swing pass.
    When you gonna learn. I didn't say first. I said one of his first.

    I can tell you this, I think you and I wouldn't have anything to talk about if you actually read what I typed. Boy would these night shifts be boring. LOL :P
    No, like V4L pointed out, AP has 2 career receiving TD's, and neither were screen passes. Nice thy though.

    Are you trying to tell me that a receiver should be able to play either position just the same? History would prove you wrong. If not, what's your point? Arguing just to argue again?
    Nope, not what I'm saying. I am saying that a guy who can run a 5 route out of the slot should be able to run the same route out of another position.
    Soo.... what exactly are you trying to say? "I'm not saying slot and wideout are the same, just that they're the same" Lots of sense that makes
    Ah, so Harvin should be played from the wideout position? It won't make a difference? There's a reason guys get labeled as a slot receiver. Because they're better at it. The positions aren't the same. Some guys excel on the outside, some on the inside. Some can do anything (true #1's ). Your discussion point stating otherwise is absolutely crazy talk and you know it
    What I know is your just mixing apples and oranges.

    Of course a guy is better in one position than another. Doesn't mean he can't shift.
    Doesn't mean he can either. Some guys can shift, some don't. You almost always see Welker playing out of the slot in a 3 wr set, because he's that good at it. Why take away one of your best weapons? Same with Harvin. As a Wideout, he didn't do nearly as well as he does out of the slot. Wideouts play against the other teams best corners most often. Slots have nickel backs, Safeties and linebackers. Sometimes, yes they'll stick a 1 or 2 corner on him, but most often, its slower safeties/lb's or a nickel receiver. That's why he seems to find more space in the slot than on the outside
    Hell, your one of the biggest for asking to see things like 2 RB's in the backfield. Isn't that asking them to do something that is out of their comfort level?
    I've mentioned it, but I wouldn't say I'm one of the biggest. I'd prefer it, because I don't see any value from Tahi whatsoever. A Gerhart/Peterson combination will have the defense uncomfortable of what is to come. Gerhart up the middle for the hard yards? Peterson off-tackle? Swing pass to the outside? Or is it all a decoy for a long bomb to Rice? It's not something to build an offense around, but definitely a wrinkle I'd like to see put in there. We saw it a little bit. We heard they planned on doing it, it just never really stuck.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    952

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Good video Thanks for posting!!

    One of the other key things that I pulled from this was that Visanthe is among the top 3 TE's in the league in TD's scored in the last 3 years (20TD's).

    Factor in Musgrave's heavy use of the TE and we could see Visanthe get even more involved. That is if we have a QB who can throw it to him, and a line that can protect.

    I also noted all the things Mr A said. Good stuff.

  3. #23
    PackSux!'s Avatar
    PackSux! is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,561

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.

  4. #24
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "PackSux!" #1089819
    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.
    it was. in 2008, berrian had 48 receptions with 964 yards for a 20.1 average.

    Take that catch away, it's 47 receptions for 845 yards for 17.98 average, good for 5th in the league for players with over 30 catches

    But in fact, Berrian did not lead the league in 2008 in average as Marrdro would have you believe. That honor went to Devery Henderson for 32 catches, 793 yards and 24.8ypc.

  5. #25
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    5,139

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "PackSux!" #1089819
    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.
    Webb will never be a receiver again. He's being groomed at QB.

    We could use more depth at WR regardless...and I agree that Berrian should be dropped.

    I also agree with the notion that our O-line needs work, and that Peterson's ability to produce has been more about HIM than about our line...

    Caine

  6. #26
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,862

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1089822
    Quote Originally Posted by "PackSux!" #1089819
    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.
    it was. in 2008, berrian had 48 receptions with 964 yards for a 20.1 average.

    Take that catch away, it's 47 receptions for 845 yards for 17.98 average, good for 5th in the league for players with over 30 catches

    But in fact, Berrian did not lead the league in 2008 in average as Marrdro would have you believe. That honor went to Devery Henderson for 32 catches, 793 yards and 24.8ypc.
    Whether he led the league or not, I think its pretty clear that Berrian is not what we need at reciever on this club. I would rather roll with a hungry rookie that is willing to work his ass off and stay healthy. Rice, Harvin, Camarillo, rookie and whatever hodgepodge of vets you can put together.

  7. #27
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    7,692

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089823
    Quote Originally Posted by "PackSux!" #1089819
    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.
    We could use more depth at WR regardless...and I agree that Berrian should be dropped.

    I also agree with the notion that our O-line needs work, and that Peterson's ability to produce has been more about HIM than about our line...

    Caine
    Hit the nail on the head there, Caine.

    When a back has 75% of his yardage after first contact, he's producing. When you have a guy who's regularly producing awe-inducing short yardage runs, your line isn't doing it's job properly.

    I've voiced this a dozen times, but I think we can do a much better job of getting Peterson to the second level by scrapping zone blocking. That obviously won't help pass protection, but that's OK, any improvement is a good thing IMO. What will help pass protection? Whip these big guys into shape in the off-season. I want McKinnie playing at 320 and Loadholt at 330. There's no doubt in my mind that at 6'8" these guys were WAY over 350 by the end of the season. Basically put these guys through pre-combine work along with that weight loss and I think you have two very solid tackles. Get them back to the fundamentals of pass protection. I think we need help inside as well, and I believe those alternatives lie in the middle rounds of the draft with guys like Ziemba and Moffitt. I'd also not be opposed to giving Ryan Cook a chance to play center, the guy really didn't look bad when he was out there. It's clear that he's not a tackle, but he's a big-ass center who should be able to stand up to big NTs like Sully could not.

    I like a lot of what I saw from Gerhart, I don't really understand where the hate comes from. He was a rookie, and at times played like one. I think he might not have a great system next year either, considering the offensive coaching change, but I imagine it's not going to be too much different, and he's a running back anyway. So long as his technique is sound he'll be fine. He just needs a little refinement and I think he'll be a really solid 3rd down back/Peterson alternative.

    Harvin in the slot creates favorable matchups and gives him more options for running after the catch, that's why I like him there. His skillset would allow him to play anywhere on the field as a receiver, but that run after the catch ability is why I like him in the slot.

    Injuries are a major concern to me, we had a rough year with them in 2010. Hopefully it's not a trend.

    It's obviously important to straighten out the QB situation, but I think if Webb develops some solid chemistry with the wide receivers, I think it's important that we keep him out there. Even if he's not technically perfect and proficient at reading defenses, he's capable of buying himself enough time where those technical proficiencies go out the window. He's got the athleticism and strong arm to make plays happen out of the pocket, as well as the obvious ability to tuck and run. There's so many options for Webb that I'd hate to see him on the sideline.

    I'm glad the Favre era is over, I'm ecstatic Childress is gone. I've been optimistic for the past two seasons now... which is unusual for me, I don't know if I've changed as a person or simply gotten dumber, but I'm feeling that strange optimism about the future of this team again. I lost all faith on November 1st, but it was returned three weeks later.

    I want to see an energy that we didn't have last season, and I think the turnaround in the coaching staff will help bring that change about. It's time for the Vikings to play like their namesake. There's a reason why our little chat feature in the top right is called the "Berserker Yell"
    ber·serk·er. an ancient Norse warrior who fought with frenzied rage in battle.

  8. #28
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    4,776

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1089830
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089823
    Quote Originally Posted by "PackSux!" #1089819
    I hate to bring up the Berrian debate again, but wasnt his 99 yard touchdown catch in 2008? That catch right there is the reason his yards per catch was so high.

    Bring in a veteran qb and draft a rookie qb. Resign Rice and try to get rid of Berrian, and roll with Rice, Harvin and Webb as our recievers.
    We could use more depth at WR regardless...and I agree that Berrian should be dropped.

    I also agree with the notion that our O-line needs work, and that Peterson's ability to produce has been more about HIM than about our line...

    Caine
    Hit the nail on the head there, Caine.

    When a guy has 75% of his yardage after first contact, he's producing. When you have a guy who's regularly producing awe-inducing short yardage runs, your line isn't doing it's job properly.

    I've voiced this a dozen times, but I think we can do a much better job of getting Peterson to the second level by scrapping zone blocking. That obviously won't help pass protection, but that's OK, any improvement is a good thing IMO. What will help pass protection? Whip these big guys into shape in the off-season. I want McKinnie playing at 320 and Loadholt at 330. There's no doubt in my mind that at 6'8" these guys were WAY over 350 by the end of the season. Basically put these guys through pre-combine work along with that weight loss and I think you have two very solid tackles. Get them back to the fundamentals of pass protection. I think we need help inside as well, and I believe those alternatives lie in the middle rounds of the draft with guys like Ziemba and Moffitt. I'd also not be opposed to giving Ryan Cook a chance to play center, the guy really didn't look bad when he was out there. It's clear that he's not a tackle, but he's a big-ass center who should be able to stand up to big NTs like Sully could not.

    I like a lot of what I saw from Gerhart, I don't really understand where the hate comes from. He was a rookie, and at times played like one. I think he might not have a great system next year either, considering the offensive coaching change, but I imagine it's not going to be too much different, and he's a running back anyway. So long as his technique is sound he'll be fine. He just needs a little refinement and I think he'll be a really solid 3rd down back/Peterson alternative.

    Harvin in the slot creates favorable matchups and gives him more options for running after the catch, that's why I like him there. His skillset would allow him to play anywhere on the field as a receiver, but that run after the catch ability is why I like him in the slot.

    Injuries are a major concern to me, we had a rough year with them in 2010. Hopefully it's not a trend.

    It's obviously important to straighten out the QB situation, but I think if Webb develops some solid chemistry with the wide receivers, I think it's important that we keep him out there. Even if he's not technically perfect and proficient at reading defenses, he's capable of buying himself enough time where those technical proficiencies go out the window. He's got the athleticism and strong arm to make plays happen out of the pocket, as well as the obvious ability to tuck and run. There's so many options for Webb that I'd hate to see him on the sideline.

    I'm glad the Favre era is over, I'm ecstatic Childress is gone. I've been optimistic for the past two seasons now... which is unusual for me, I don't know if I've changed as a person or simply gotten dumber, but I'm feeling that strange optimism about the future of this team again. I lost all faith on November 1st, but it was returned three weeks later.

    I want to see an energy that we didn't have last season, and I think the turnaround in the coaching staff will help bring that change about. It's time for the Vikings to play like their namesake. There's a reason why our little chat feature in the top right is called the "Berserker Yell"
    ber·serk·er. an ancient Norse warrior who fought with frenzied rage in battle.
    If McKinnie and Loadholdt come to camp slim trim and in shape, I would take that as a very positive sign with regard to Frazier as coach.
    When I think of McKinnie, I think about unrealized potential. Loadholdt seemed to regress his second year.

    I agree with most of your post.
    The big question mark with Webb is whether he will be able to effectively pass.
    Game managers are fine if you have the lead, but you have to be able to effectively pass when you are behind and the defense has their ears pinned back.

    I think a new run blocking scheme will help Toby as well as AD.

    I don't expect a great year in 2011. But I expect to see enough positive things to give hope for the future. And every year there is a chance for a team to spring up from nowhere and exceed expectation.

    The Vikings went from first to last in one season. It's not impossible to do the opposite.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  9. #29
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,262

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1089723
    If it was up to Shiancoe the Vikings would bring in someone to lead/tutor Webb.
    In other words, Favre DIDN'T do that for Webb when he was here. NOW we need to find a veteran QB that WILL do what veteran QB's are expected to do.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: NFL Network: Shiancoe Talks Favre, More

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1089891
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1089723
    If it was up to Shiancoe the Vikings would bring in someone to lead/tutor Webb.
    In other words, Favre DIDN'T do that for Webb when he was here. NOW we need to find a veteran QB that WILL do what veteran QB's are expected to do.
    You are reading too much into it. Brett will not be here this year so there is no chance of him being that guy so naturally we will need a different vet to do it. Nothing in that article eluded to him NOT getting any tutoring last year. And BTW- TJ was a 5th year vet last season and had many opportunities to do some "Mentoring" himself. How much mentoring do you suppose he provided to young Webb?

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Shiancoe: Not fair to ‘knock’ Favre
    By vikinggreg in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-09-2010, 09:50 PM
  2. Henderson Talks About Playing With Favre
    By Marrdro in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-18-2009, 11:41 AM
  3. Jets hold "Serious Talks" about Favre
    By CrazyVikingsFan in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 08-03-2008, 03:12 PM
  4. Favre Talks Comeback
    By APAD in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-25-2008, 10:38 PM
  5. Glimmer of hope in Big Ten Network-Comcast talks
    By COJOMAY in forum The Clubhouse
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-12-2008, 11:25 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •