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  1. #11
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    Yeah, what this article doesn't mention is the fact that the Coliseum is in worse shape than the dome is, and has less luxury seats than the dome.
    There is a reason why no NFL teams play there.

    Zygi already has a contract with an aging stadium that doesn't generate enough revenue.
    Why would he want to move into an older one that generates less revenue?
    Take LA out of the equation.

    He wants a venue that will generate revenue.
    That venue can be built anyplace that has the following:

    a.
    A receptive audience/community ready to assist with funding.
    b.
    An area that has the infrastructure (airports, highways, hotels, business, large corporations etc) to support an NFL team.
    c.
    An area that is approved by the NFL.
    Usually if you have (b) you will get (c).
    d. An area that has a large population.
    Again, if you have (b) you have an area that can/will support a team in attendance.

    Again, lets not focus on just LA but rather that if pushed, and I feel they are being nudged now, the Wilf owner ship will start to look at other venues that can and will meet his needs for a venue that have the right area and population to support it.
    LA, however, does not have a or c.
    The community has been adamant about not spending public money to renovate the Coliseum (more so than Minnesota), and the NFL has said publicly that cities getting expansion teams or moved teams must meet minimum stadium standards.
    That was a huge sticking point in the move of the Oilers to Tennessee.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #12
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    In terms of the Minnesota legislature's reluctance to seriously discuss a new stadium, I think COJOMAY is pretty much right on with his post.
    What I don't understand is why the politicians think that they'll be safe if the Vikings move.
    If that happened every one of them would be thrown out in the next election by a bunch of people ticked off because their kids are all going to become Packers fans.

    I don't agree with everyone putting forth the "LA didn't work before and it won't work now" argument.
    The argument is based on a faulty premise and ignores other important factors.

    First, the Rams and Raiders were making money in LA despite attendence issues.
    The moves weren't an issue of not being able to support the teams in LA, but rather having a better alternative.
    My understanding is that the Vikings are somehow managing to lose money in Minnesota.
    In the modern NFL, that's quite an accomplishment.

    Second, those better alternatives in Oakland and St. Louis were available not based on a large or loyal fanbase, but rather on state-of-the-art stadiums, cash incentives, and guaranteed sellouts.
    This is the kind of deal that the LA business folks are trying to put together.
    The question for Wilf will not be, "LA with a large but fickle fan base or Minnesota with a small but loyal fan base?"
    Instead, the question will be, "LA with a new stadium and plenty of financial incentives or Minnesota and the same Metrodome deal that we're losing money on now?"

    The thing that really worries me about this is that, if this is true, these guys are smart enough not to make a big deal about it.
    As long as people and politicians in Minnesota don't believe that there's a real chance of the team moving, no new stadium deal is going to happen.
    The longer the Vikings wait without a stadium deal in place, the more attractive any offer from LA will become.

    Looks to me like there is a good chance the trucks are going to be coming in the middle of the night if people don't get word to the legislature that they are willing to help foot the bill for a new stadium.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    Yeah, what this article doesn't mention is the fact that the Coliseum is in worse shape than the dome is, and has less luxury seats than the dome.
    There is a reason why no NFL teams play there.

    Zygi already has a contract with an aging stadium that doesn't generate enough revenue.
    Why would he want to move into an older one that generates less revenue?
    Take LA out of the equation.

    He wants a venue that will generate revenue.
    That venue can be built anyplace that has the following:

    a.
    A receptive audience/community ready to assist with funding.
    b.
    An area that has the infrastructure (airports, highways, hotels, business, large corporations etc) to support an NFL team.
    c.
    An area that is approved by the NFL.
    Usually if you have (b) you will get (c).
    d. An area that has a large population.
    Again, if you have (b) you have an area that can/will support a team in attendance.

    Again, lets not focus on just LA but rather that if pushed, and I feel they are being nudged now, the Wilf owner ship will start to look at other venues that can and will meet his needs for a venue that have the right area and population to support it.
    LA, however, does not have a or c.
    The community has been adamant about not spending public money to renovate the Coliseum (more so than Minnesota), and the NFL has said publicly that cities getting expansion teams or moved teams must meet minimum stadium standards.
    That was a huge sticking point in the move of the Oilers to Tennessee.
    You keep going back to LA my friend.

    Any area would work that satisfied the above criteria and a stadium could be erected by 2011 if push came to shove.


    Hell for that matter the Tidewater community (Va Beach, Norfolk, Suffolk, Chesapeak, Newport News etc) were gol 'darnit close to getting the Nationals and would build a stadium in a second for any pro team.

    I am sure there are others out there waiting in the wings my friend and I believe the Wilf organization know who they are.

    Look my point is that if people keep believing that the Vikes won't move cause it would piss off the local fan base then they are mistaken.
    And to continue to think that the local sports fan has a say is crazy.
    This decision has nothing to do with them and they have very little say in it.
    It is all predicated on whos pocket will get lined and what politicians will get out of it.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "Overlord" wrote:
    In terms of the Minnesota legislature's reluctance to seriously discuss a new stadium, I think COJOMAY is pretty much right on with his post.
    What I don't understand is why the politicians think that they'll be safe if the Vikings move.
    If that happened every one of them would be thrown out in the next election by a bunch of people ticked off because their kids are all going to become Packers fans.

    I don't agree with everyone putting forth the "LA didn't work before and it won't work now" argument.
    The argument is based on a faulty premise and ignores other important factors.

    First, the Rams and Raiders were making money in LA despite attendence issues.
    The moves weren't an issue of not being able to support the teams in LA, but rather having a better alternative.
    My understanding is that the Vikings are somehow managing to lose money in Minnesota.
    In the modern NFL, that's quite an accomplishment.

    Second, those better alternatives in Oakland and St. Louis were available not based on a large or loyal fanbase, but rather on state-of-the-art stadiums, cash incentives, and guaranteed sellouts.
    This is the kind of deal that the LA business folks are trying to put together.
    The question for Wilf will not be, "LA with a large but fickle fan base or Minnesota with a small but loyal fan base?"
    Instead, the question will be, "LA with a new stadium and plenty of financial incentives or Minnesota and the same Metrodome deal that we're losing money on now?"

    The thing that really worries me about this is that, if this is true, these guys are smart enough not to make a big deal about it.
    As long as people and politicians in Minnesota don't believe that there's a real chance of the team moving, no new stadium deal is going to happen.
    The longer the Vikings wait without a stadium deal in place, the more attractive any offer from LA will become.

    Looks to me like there is a good chance the trucks are going to be coming in the middle of the night if people don't get word to the legislature that they are willing to help foot the bill for a new stadium.
    Another great post.

    I know a great location for the Vikes to move to if and when they do.

    Large population that wants a team and is willing to finance the venue.
    Great infrastructure.
    Huge corporations/companies and one of the largest transitien fan base in the United States.

    Again, there are alot other options out there than LA and I am sure the Wilfs know were they are at.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    You keep going back to LA my friend.

    Any area would work that satisfied the above criteria and a stadium could be erected by 2011 if push came to shove.


    Hell for that matter the Tidewater community (Va Beach, Norfolk, Suffolk, Chesapeak, Newport News etc) were gol 'darnit close to getting the Nationals and would build a stadium in a second for any pro team.

    I am sure there are others out there waiting in the wings my friend and I believe the Wilf organization know who they are.
    That's true.
    I just think that the LA area is the most talked about and likely at the moment.


    I was going to say that I think the Tidewater area is too close to other teams, which might cause other owners to prevent any such move.
    But I'm not sure how much of an actual overlap there is in the markets.


    Look my point is that if people keep believing that the Vikes won't move cause it would piss off the local fan base then they are mistaken.
    And to continue to think that the local sports fan has a say is crazy.
    This decision has nothing to do with them and they have very little say in it.
    It is all predicated on whos pocket will get lined and what politicians will get out of it.
    I do think the fans have a say, but they have to talk with their pocket books through the legislature.
    If your representatives knew that people wanted a stadium in order to keep the Vikings around, it would happen.
    As long as they think that more votes will be won by ignoring it, no new stadium will be built.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "Overlord" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    You keep going back to LA my friend.

    Any area would work that satisfied the above criteria and a stadium could be erected by 2011 if push came to shove.


    Hell for that matter the Tidewater community (Va Beach, Norfolk, Suffolk, Chesapeak, Newport News etc) were gol 'darnit close to getting the Nationals and would build a stadium in a second for any pro team.

    I am sure there are others out there waiting in the wings my friend and I believe the Wilf organization know who they are.
    That's true.
    I just think that the LA area is the most talked about and likely at the moment.


    I was going to say that I think the Tidewater area is too close to other teams, which might cause other owners to prevent any such move.
    But I'm not sure how much of an actual overlap there is in the markets.


    Look my point is that if people keep believing that the Vikes won't move cause it would piss off the local fan base then they are mistaken.
    And to continue to think that the local sports fan has a say is crazy.
    This decision has nothing to do with them and they have very little say in it.
    It is all predicated on whos pocket will get lined and what politicians will get out of it.
    I do think the fans have a say, but they have to talk with their pocket books through the legislature.
    If your representatives knew that people wanted a stadium in order to keep the Vikings around, it would happen.
    As long as they think that more votes will be won by ignoring it, no new stadium will be built.
    You are correct.
    When we lobbied for a team a few years back we were given grief over the proximity to the skins and now the Ravens moved in.
    Go figure. ;D

    Would we ever get a team, probably not, however, my point still stands that there are other options out there that would support the building of a new venue and I am sure the Wilfs and the NFL know who they are.

    As to your second point, the problem with the whole "Pocket Book" theory is that you would have to think that the whole state would put this kindof pressure on them when in fact reality is that only about 60,000 Minnesotans really would have any impact.
    That isn't that much of a element when you consider the number of voters in the state vs 60,000 Vikings fans.

    (Key note:
    I don't really believe the number is 60,000 as alot of fans come from out of state to watch the games.).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    sdfrenchy is offline Rookie
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    The 60,000 number is waaay too low. It's not just the fans that go to the game every sunday it's also people like me that go once or twice a year and spend ~$500 a trip. That money is not just spent in Minneapolis but in the gas stations and restaurants on the way. The number of vikings fans is more like 250,000 in the Minneapolis Metro and even more in the region. It's not like they have 60,000 season ticket holders.

    I predict a new stadium next year. This year is political posturing because of the bridge. They can't hand out money to billionaires when average people are dying on the bridges. Next year though...

  8. #18
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    "sdfrenchy" wrote:
    The 60,000 number is waaay too low. It's not just the fans that go to the game every sunday it's also people like me that go once or twice a year and spend ~$500 a trip. That money is not just spent in Minneapolis but in the gas stations and restaurants on the way. The number of vikings fans is more like 250,000 in the Minneapolis Metro and even more in the region. It's not like they have 60,000 season ticket holders.

    I predict a new stadium next year. This year is political posturing because of the bridge. They can't hand out money to billionaires when average people are dying on the bridges. Next year though...
    I agree that 60k is too low.
    Even when the Vikings are playing badly, their television ratings are unmatched by any other local broadcast.
    That is why TV stations were willing to shell out so much money to prevent a blackout.
    There is a very strong following in the state of Minnesota.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    How 'bout the Raiders back to L.A. ? That is what I have heard.

    I don't see the Vikings moving to Mexifornia right after the reallignment into the NFC North. That would blow the new re-allignment based on real regions, right ?

    I also don't think that real estate developers "drive" the whole process.

  10. #20
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Mythbusting: Vikings to L.A. Coliseum?

    BULLSHIT
    That is what all this talk is. I have not heard any serious talk of the vikings moving. It will not happen. The annonomous phone call for this story was probably ziggy himself trying to get support for a new stadium. The vikings made Red McCombs about $500,000,000.00 dollars when he sold them. If the state would have bought him a stadium he probably still would have sold only for a profit of about $1,000,000,000.00. The vikings are making money, the nfl is making money. They will add another expansion team way before they move a team that is making money.

    This whole idea of the vikings moving to LA or any other place is complete BULLSHIT.


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