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  1. #21
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I thought that option has been tried and rejected.
    Less bang for the buck (to use your other statement).
    The renovations proposed to even get them up to current NFL standards would cost $300+, and still wouldn't do anything to affect the issue of ticket sales or fan experience.
    Plus future renovations, which would certainly be needed over time, would be equally expensive.
    Two or three "renovations" and we could have already paid for a new stadium that does not need renovations in the same time frame as the dome.

    It is kind of like a new car versus keeping your old one.
    Yes, you CAN keep the old one running right now.
    But eventually you will have invested more money into the upkeep and maintenance of the old car than you would have on a newer model, which doesn't require the same amount of maintenance (until it gets older).
    The trick is finding the right time when purchasing the new car is cheaper in the long run than keeping the old one.


    Anytime you are talking about spending 30% of the cost on a new car, er stadium, on renovations on the old, you have reached that point in time when it is better to buy new.
    Great Analogy.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  2. #22
    RK.'s Avatar
    RK.
    RK. is offline Ring of Fame Rally Cross II Champion
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    [img width=450 height=297]http://www.crala.org/internet-site/Projects/Hoover/images/coliseum.jpg[/img]

    This is still available and its open air too.
    ;D

    WWBGD

  3. #23
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "RK." wrote:
    [img width=450 height=297]http://www.crala.org/internet-site/Projects/Hoover/images/coliseum.jpg[/img]

    This is still available and its open air too.
    ;D
    It's also completely outdated for the NFL in 2007.

    =Z=


    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  4. #24
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    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "RK." wrote:
    [img width=450 height=297]http://www.crala.org/internet-site/Projects/Hoover/images/coliseum.jpg[/img]

    This is still available and its open air too.
    ;D
    It's also completely outdated for the NFL in 2007.

    =Z=

    Lol.
    Yeah, sorry but we already have an out of date stadium with not enough suites, club seating, concessions and toilets.
    Why would we want to move into another?
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #25
    Boyum is offline Training Camp
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    (NoDakPaul wrote)

    It is a nice dream Boyum, and I would go if it were built.
    But I don't think it is the best solution for the Vikings.
    The biggest problem is because it is an open air stadium.
    And not because I want heated leather seats and TiVo for when they have to take a leak.

    Here are my reasons:

    1) An outdoor stadium would only be usable for event other than football for a handful of months out of the year.
    We are currently asking for public money to finance more than 50% of the overall construction costs.
    There is no way that the state or city would be able to recoup their expenses if the stadium was open air.
    Right now the Metrodome holds events 330+ days out of the year.
    We need a facility that can do the same, or there simply won't be any public money to help pay for it.

    Valid
    point.
    The Metrodome, although inadequate from the day it opened has been an efficient, useful facility and has been paid off for many years which is rare.
    I believe they make a pretty good profit from the Dome which is unheard of for major stadiums.


    2) Fan attendance would drop significantly.
    The Vikings, even when they were the Purple People Eaters, had trouble selling out the old Met in the winter.
    Why?
    Well, part of it was because the Met was a piece of pooh.
    If you had ever been there, you know that's true.
    The only thing it had going for it was the outdoors, but that is why it didn't sell ou tin the winter.
    It was a miserable fan experience.
    And the Met only seated 45,000 people.
    That was another of the very big reasons that we moved to an indoor stadium in 1982.
    Now, even though we are in one of the worst couple of years in Vikings History, we are still selling 60,000+ seats at home games.
    If we were outdoors again, this wouldn't be the case.

    I hate to believe that is the case but you are probably right.
    People are not the same as they were 30 years ago.
    It was cool back in the 70’s to wear snowmobile suits in public LOL.
    I was a very young but I used to be one of the rubes you saw on the NFL today tailgating out at the old Met in -10 weather and snowing.
    I think the entire country was fascinated with just how ridiculous we were.
    It was fun times though.


    And yes, the Met was a piece of pooh.
    Barely a good baseball stadium to be honest.


    3) Without a roof, we will not get a super bowl in Minnesota again.
    The amount of money brought in by both businesses and consumers is astronomical.


    I for one am not enamored with the benefits of hosting a Superbowl, I would much rather the Vikings BE IN a Superbowl whether it be Pasadena, Miami or Minneapolis.
    I believe the road back to the Superbowl starts with the Vikings going back outdoors, like the Packers, Bills, Eagles, Patriots, Giants, Redskins, Jets,
    and other cold weather teams.

    Honestly, I like the idea of open air in the fall months, but not in the winter.
    That is why I am in favor or a retractable roof.

    I believe that new technology can make the fan experience tolerable on the worst weather days in an outdoor facility.
    Just situating the stadium properly should keep the coldest winds off the fans and with heated seats and floors you could be pretty darn comfortable given the proper clothing.
    I think the right outdoor stadium would be just what this franchise needs.


  6. #26
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "Boyum" wrote:
    I believe that new technology can make the fan experience tolerable on the worst weather days in an outdoor facility.
    Just situating the stadium properly should keep the coldest winds off the fans and with heated seats and floors you could be pretty darn comfortable given the proper clothing.
    I think the right outdoor stadium would be just what this franchise needs.
    That is actually probably the most intelligent way to argue for an outdoor stadium that I have heard here in a long time.
    Usually when I offer my reasons for not wanting an outdoor stadium I am met with comments about my toughness and/or told to leave my kids at home for football games.

    If the stadium is designed properly it could be a good fan experience, you are right.
    Then it just comes down to the public funding issue.
    I think a properly designed open air stadium would still cost a pretty good chuck of change, and I just don't see it going through the legislature without a roof.
    But if it can be done, then I am all for it.

    Realistically, I think it will end up being an enclosed stadium.
    We'll see though.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #27
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    tgorsegner is offline Coordinator
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    I believe that new technology can make the fan experience tolerable on the worst weather days in an outdoor facility.
    Just situating the stadium properly should keep the coldest winds off the fans and with heated seats and floors you could be pretty darn comfortable given the proper clothing.
    I think the right outdoor stadium would be just what this franchise needs.
    That is actually probably the most intelligent way to argue for an outdoor stadium that I have heard here in a long time.
    Usually when I offer my reasons for not wanting an outdoor stadium I am met with comments about my toughness and/or told to leave my kids at home for football games.

    If the stadium is designed properly it could be a good fan experience, you are right.
    Then it just comes down to the public funding issue.
    I think a properly designed open air stadium would still cost a pretty good chuck of change, and I just don't see it going through the legislature without a roof.
    But if it can be done, then I am all for it.

    Realistically, I think it will end up being an enclosed stadium.
    We'll see though.

    Is there a reason an open air stadium could not be used for non-football purposes for approx 3 seasons of the year?


    VikesFan787, Thanks for the awesome sig!

  8. #28
    Boyum is offline Training Camp
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    I believe that new technology can make the fan experience tolerable on the worst weather days in an outdoor facility.
    Just situating the stadium properly should keep the coldest winds off the fans and with heated seats and floors you could be pretty darn comfortable given the proper clothing.
    I think the right outdoor stadium would be just what this franchise needs.
    That is actually probably the most intelligent way to argue for an outdoor stadium that I have heard here in a long time.
    Usually when I offer my reasons for not wanting an outdoor stadium I am met with comments about my toughness and/or told to leave my kids at home for football games.

    If the stadium is designed properly it could be a good fan experience, you are right.
    Then it just comes down to the public funding issue.
    I think a properly designed open air stadium would still cost a pretty good chuck of change, and I just don't see it going through the legislature without a roof.
    But if it can be done, then I am all for it.

    Realistically, I think it will end up being an enclosed stadium.
    We'll see though.
    As I said, this is just a dream of mine and I realize spending 800M on a stadium that can be used for as few as 8 home games and a handful of other events is nothing but a dream.
    So that leaves us with a 1billion+ retractable roof option.
    The best of both worlds but if the roof is going to cost 300M I would much rather see that money be spent on building the best fixed roof stadium in the league with the best parking and infrastructure to support not only the stadium but what I hope is a thriving business community around the stadium.


    To summarize, if we cannot justify an outdoor stadium then let's build the best dome possible.
    Whatever they play in we have to keep the Vikings in Minnesota.


  9. #29
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    vikesfargo is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    The goal is a tolerable situation for fans while retaining as much of a natural condition for game play. The weather in Chicago and Green Bay can be bad, but not so bad as to keep the fans away. It can get cold in Buffalo, New England, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, and other cities, but only very rarely does it get to extremes. The regularly extreme cold and snowy weather in Detroit would keep fans away, so they've elected to go with a roof on their new stadium.

    Twin Cities weather in November, December, and January is known to often take a nasty turn. We all know there is a difference between being cold and feeling like your face is about to get torn off.

    A couple of other NFL stadiums are built in cities with not just bad weather, but extreme weather. They are Reliant Stadium in Hoston (heat, humidity, bad air), and the Cardinals's stadium (heat). Both stadiums have retractable roofs. The successor to the Metrodome should, too.

    Advantages of retractability include: a natural grass surface, open air stadium in good and tolerable weather, and a roofed stadium in extreme weather. Retractability also gives the stadium year-round uses. That means the investment pays for itself over time. It means the stadium can be used for soccer or World Cup matches. Finally, it means we will host another Super Bowl, which helps the economics tremendously.

    There is no need to raise taxes. Just sell bonds and pay for them with the stadium lease to the Vikings and other events. Let the Wilfs own part of the stadium if they want to commit their own money. Get the Wilfs to sign a long-term lease. Problem solved.


    Go Vikings!

  10. #30
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    Re: My dream for a new stadium

    "tgorsegner" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    I believe that new technology can make the fan experience tolerable on the worst weather days in an outdoor facility.
    Just situating the stadium properly should keep the coldest winds off the fans and with heated seats and floors you could be pretty darn comfortable given the proper clothing.
    I think the right outdoor stadium would be just what this franchise needs.
    That is actually probably the most intelligent way to argue for an outdoor stadium that I have heard here in a long time.
    Usually when I offer my reasons for not wanting an outdoor stadium I am met with comments about my toughness and/or told to leave my kids at home for football games.

    If the stadium is designed properly it could be a good fan experience, you are right.
    Then it just comes down to the public funding issue.
    I think a properly designed open air stadium would still cost a pretty good chuck of change, and I just don't see it going through the legislature without a roof.
    But if it can be done, then I am all for it.

    Realistically, I think it will end up being an enclosed stadium.
    We'll see though.

    Is there a reason an open air stadium could not be used for non-football purposes for approx 3 seasons of the year?
    Yes.

    The Dome currently holds things like tradeshows, home improvement shows, etc. that are not at all feasible in an open-air venue.
    In addition, there are many events held at the Dome (concerts and such) that also cannot be held out-of-doors during winter.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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