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  1. #41
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Just as it's fact that we give up more yards than any other team in the NFL during the 4th quarter. I guess it's ok to ignore that?

    Just sayin'. Some of us just look at the team objectively and not with purple shades all the time... or putting the lyrics to "Welcome to Miami" in their sig...


    Also, I like how you're saying we're doing "pretty good" in 4th quarter defense, yet we're 4th from the bottom in the league. How are those purple shades workin' for ya?
    Your "fact" about us being 3rd worst in points given up was wrong, I have absolutely no reason to believe that your "fact" about us being last in yardage is correct either.

    And we have given up 7, 3, 7, 9, 7, and 21 points in the 4th quarter so far this year.
    5 good games, 1 bad game.
    Yes, that sounds like we are pretty good to me.
    In fact, let's break down all the games so far...

    Week 1: We enter the 4th Q up 24-13.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-7.
    Week 2: We enter the 4th Q up 17-10.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-3.
    Week 3: We enter the 4th Q up 20-17.
    We score the same as our opponent in the 4th 7-7.
    Week 4: We enter the 4th Q up 28-14.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 9-2.
    Week 5: We enter the 4th Q up 24-3.
    We outscore out opponent in the 4th 14-7.
    Week 6: We enter the 4th Q up 20-10.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 21-13.

    So let's see, what kind of patterns are there... first of all, we entered the 4th Q up every game so far.
    In fact, we enter the 4th up by an average of 11 points.
    There was only 1 game in which we were up by less than a TD.
    Don't know if you know this or not, but a LOT of coaches start to play shell or prevent when up by double digits late in the game.

    Second, we outscored our opponents 56-54 in the fourth.
    Hey, I will be the first to admit that the Ravens really gave us a run for our money in the 4th Q.
    Kudos to them (especially since they have scored 21 or more points in the 4th Q multiple times this year - probably not a fluke).
    But the point still remains that we always enter the 4th with a lead, and outscore our opponents in the 4th more often than not.

    Should we have gone into a shell in the 4th against the Ravens.
    In hindsight no.
    But we were stopping their offense all game, in fact for the first 1/3 of the 4th as well.
    We were up by 17 points in the 4th, I have a hard time faulting them without the benefit of hindsight.

    Maybe you don't understand what "objectively" really means.
    But keep looking for everything that is wrong if that is what makes you feel better.
    If you REALLY want to convince yourself that this 6-0 team is so horrible, be my guest...
    lol... here you go:

    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...nclick_check=1

    The Vikings have given up more yards in the fourth quarter than any other team — an average of 138.3 per game — and have allowed the third-most points (54).
    Awesome.
    You gave us a broken link and incorrect stats.
    Way to go.
    Here is the correct link BTW, http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13605831

    I actually think that you are probably right in saying that the Vikings give up the most yards per game in the 4th.
    My point was that your source is not credible, and like usual you don't bother checking facts before you post them.
    If they support your belief, then you just run with it, and never never never admit when you are wrong.
    Jensen made the same mistake you did - looking at stats without context and trying to manufacture meaning for them.

    I love the fact that you are stuck on the Vikings allowing the third-most points in the 4th.
    Especially when that doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings have played 6 games to many teams 5...
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings usually have a double digit lead in the 4th.
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings are still 6-0.

    But hey, that's OK.
    Keep on preaching about how horrible our coach is and how everybody attacks you for being so "objective" and how you are never wrong...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #42
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Just as it's fact that we give up more yards than any other team in the NFL during the 4th quarter. I guess it's ok to ignore that?

    Just sayin'. Some of us just look at the team objectively and not with purple shades all the time... or putting the lyrics to "Welcome to Miami" in their sig...


    Also, I like how you're saying we're doing "pretty good" in 4th quarter defense, yet we're 4th from the bottom in the league. How are those purple shades workin' for ya?
    Your "fact" about us being 3rd worst in points given up was wrong, I have absolutely no reason to believe that your "fact" about us being last in yardage is correct either.

    And we have given up 7, 3, 7, 9, 7, and 21 points in the 4th quarter so far this year.
    5 good games, 1 bad game.
    Yes, that sounds like we are pretty good to me.
    In fact, let's break down all the games so far...

    Week 1: We enter the 4th Q up 24-13.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-7.
    Week 2: We enter the 4th Q up 17-10.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-3.
    Week 3: We enter the 4th Q up 20-17.
    We score the same as our opponent in the 4th 7-7.
    Week 4: We enter the 4th Q up 28-14.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 9-2.
    Week 5: We enter the 4th Q up 24-3.
    We outscore out opponent in the 4th 14-7.
    Week 6: We enter the 4th Q up 20-10.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 21-13.

    So let's see, what kind of patterns are there... first of all, we entered the 4th Q up every game so far.
    In fact, we enter the 4th up by an average of 11 points.
    There was only 1 game in which we were up by less than a TD.
    Don't know if you know this or not, but a LOT of coaches start to play shell or prevent when up by double digits late in the game.

    Second, we outscored our opponents 56-54 in the fourth.
    Hey, I will be the first to admit that the Ravens really gave us a run for our money in the 4th Q.
    Kudos to them (especially since they have scored 21 or more points in the 4th Q multiple times this year - probably not a fluke).
    But the point still remains that we always enter the 4th with a lead, and outscore our opponents in the 4th more often than not.

    Should we have gone into a shell in the 4th against the Ravens.
    In hindsight no.
    But we were stopping their offense all game, in fact for the first 1/3 of the 4th as well.
    We were up by 17 points in the 4th, I have a hard time faulting them without the benefit of hindsight.

    Maybe you don't understand what "objectively" really means.
    But keep looking for everything that is wrong if that is what makes you feel better.
    If you REALLY want to convince yourself that this 6-0 team is so horrible, be my guest...
    lol... here you go:

    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...nclick_check=1

    The Vikings have given up more yards in the fourth quarter than any other team — an average of 138.3 per game — and have allowed the third-most points (54).
    Awesome.
    You gave us a broken link and incorrect stats.
    Way to go.
    Here is the correct link BTW, http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13605831

    I actually think that you are probably right in saying that the Vikings give up the most yards per game in the 4th.
    My point was that your source is not credible, and like usual you don't bother checking facts before you post them.
    If they support your belief, then you just run with it, and never never never admit when you are wrong.
    Jensen made the same mistake you did - looking at stats without context and trying to manufacture meaning for them.

    I love the fact that you are stuck on the Vikings allowing the third-most points in the 4th.
    Especially when that doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings have played 6 games to many teams 5...
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings usually have a double digit lead in the 4th.
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings are still 6-0.

    But hey, that's OK.
    Keep on preaching about how horrible our coach is and how everybody attacks you for being so "objective" and how you are never wrong...
    Nope, link works for me.

    And playing poorly in the 4th might be OK for you, but we won't get far against teams like the Saints or Colts.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #43
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Just as it's fact that we give up more yards than any other team in the NFL during the 4th quarter. I guess it's ok to ignore that?

    Just sayin'. Some of us just look at the team objectively and not with purple shades all the time... or putting the lyrics to "Welcome to Miami" in their sig...


    Also, I like how you're saying we're doing "pretty good" in 4th quarter defense, yet we're 4th from the bottom in the league. How are those purple shades workin' for ya?
    Your "fact" about us being 3rd worst in points given up was wrong, I have absolutely no reason to believe that your "fact" about us being last in yardage is correct either.

    And we have given up 7, 3, 7, 9, 7, and 21 points in the 4th quarter so far this year.
    5 good games, 1 bad game.
    Yes, that sounds like we are pretty good to me.
    In fact, let's break down all the games so far...

    Week 1: We enter the 4th Q up 24-13.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-7.
    Week 2: We enter the 4th Q up 17-10.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-3.
    Week 3: We enter the 4th Q up 20-17.
    We score the same as our opponent in the 4th 7-7.
    Week 4: We enter the 4th Q up 28-14.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 9-2.
    Week 5: We enter the 4th Q up 24-3.
    We outscore out opponent in the 4th 14-7.
    Week 6: We enter the 4th Q up 20-10.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 21-13.

    So let's see, what kind of patterns are there... first of all, we entered the 4th Q up every game so far.
    In fact, we enter the 4th up by an average of 11 points.
    There was only 1 game in which we were up by less than a TD.
    Don't know if you know this or not, but a LOT of coaches start to play shell or prevent when up by double digits late in the game.

    Second, we outscored our opponents 56-54 in the fourth.
    Hey, I will be the first to admit that the Ravens really gave us a run for our money in the 4th Q.
    Kudos to them (especially since they have scored 21 or more points in the 4th Q multiple times this year - probably not a fluke).
    But the point still remains that we always enter the 4th with a lead, and outscore our opponents in the 4th more often than not.

    Should we have gone into a shell in the 4th against the Ravens.
    In hindsight no.
    But we were stopping their offense all game, in fact for the first 1/3 of the 4th as well.
    We were up by 17 points in the 4th, I have a hard time faulting them without the benefit of hindsight.

    Maybe you don't understand what "objectively" really means.
    But keep looking for everything that is wrong if that is what makes you feel better.
    If you REALLY want to convince yourself that this 6-0 team is so horrible, be my guest...
    lol... here you go:

    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...nclick_check=1

    The Vikings have given up more yards in the fourth quarter than any other team — an average of 138.3 per game — and have allowed the third-most points (54).
    Awesome.
    You gave us a broken link and incorrect stats.
    Way to go.
    Here is the correct link BTW, http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13605831

    I actually think that you are probably right in saying that the Vikings give up the most yards per game in the 4th.
    My point was that your source is not credible, and like usual you don't bother checking facts before you post them.
    If they support your belief, then you just run with it, and never never never admit when you are wrong.
    Jensen made the same mistake you did - looking at stats without context and trying to manufacture meaning for them.

    I love the fact that you are stuck on the Vikings allowing the third-most points in the 4th.
    Especially when that doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings have played 6 games to many teams 5...
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings usually have a double digit lead in the 4th.
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings are still 6-0.

    But hey, that's OK.
    Keep on preaching about how horrible our coach is and how everybody attacks you for being so "objective" and how you are never wrong...
    Nope, link works for me.

    And playing poorly in the 4th might be OK for you, but we won't get far against teams like the Saints or Colts.
    A coaching thing?
    Wow.
    How difficult is it to understand that coaches game plan and teach?
    Players learn and execute.
    The players are not executing.
    The game plans have been just fine.

  4. #44
    C Mac D's Avatar
    C Mac D is offline Posting to P'own
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=C Mac D link=topic=53765.msg1007752#msg1007752 date=1256162467]
    Just as it's fact that we give up more yards than any other team in the NFL during the 4th quarter. I guess it's ok to ignore that?

    Just sayin'. Some of us just look at the team objectively and not with purple shades all the time... or putting the lyrics to "Welcome to Miami" in their sig...


    Also, I like how you're saying we're doing "pretty good" in 4th quarter defense, yet we're 4th from the bottom in the league. How are those purple shades workin' for ya?
    Your "fact" about us being 3rd worst in points given up was wrong, I have absolutely no reason to believe that your "fact" about us being last in yardage is correct either.

    And we have given up 7, 3, 7, 9, 7, and 21 points in the 4th quarter so far this year.
    5 good games, 1 bad game.
    Yes, that sounds like we are pretty good to me.
    In fact, let's break down all the games so far...

    Week 1: We enter the 4th Q up 24-13.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-7.
    Week 2: We enter the 4th Q up 17-10.
    We outscore our opponent in the 4th 10-3.
    Week 3: We enter the 4th Q up 20-17.
    We score the same as our opponent in the 4th 7-7.
    Week 4: We enter the 4th Q up 28-14.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 9-2.
    Week 5: We enter the 4th Q up 24-3.
    We outscore out opponent in the 4th 14-7.
    Week 6: We enter the 4th Q up 20-10.
    Our opponent outscores us in the 4th 21-13.

    So let's see, what kind of patterns are there... first of all, we entered the 4th Q up every game so far.
    In fact, we enter the 4th up by an average of 11 points.
    There was only 1 game in which we were up by less than a TD.
    Don't know if you know this or not, but a LOT of coaches start to play shell or prevent when up by double digits late in the game.

    Second, we outscored our opponents 56-54 in the fourth.
    Hey, I will be the first to admit that the Ravens really gave us a run for our money in the 4th Q.
    Kudos to them (especially since they have scored 21 or more points in the 4th Q multiple times this year - probably not a fluke).
    But the point still remains that we always enter the 4th with a lead, and outscore our opponents in the 4th more often than not.

    Should we have gone into a shell in the 4th against the Ravens.
    In hindsight no.
    But we were stopping their offense all game, in fact for the first 1/3 of the 4th as well.
    We were up by 17 points in the 4th, I have a hard time faulting them without the benefit of hindsight.

    Maybe you don't understand what "objectively" really means.
    But keep looking for everything that is wrong if that is what makes you feel better.
    If you REALLY want to convince yourself that this 6-0 team is so horrible, be my guest...
    lol... here you go:

    http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_...nclick_check=1

    The Vikings have given up more yards in the fourth quarter than any other team — an average of 138.3 per game — and have allowed the third-most points (54).
    Awesome.
    You gave us a broken link and incorrect stats.
    Way to go.
    Here is the correct link BTW, http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_13605831

    I actually think that you are probably right in saying that the Vikings give up the most yards per game in the 4th.
    My point was that your source is not credible, and like usual you don't bother checking facts before you post them.
    If they support your belief, then you just run with it, and never never never admit when you are wrong.
    Jensen made the same mistake you did - looking at stats without context and trying to manufacture meaning for them.

    I love the fact that you are stuck on the Vikings allowing the third-most points in the 4th.
    Especially when that doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings have played 6 games to many teams 5...
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings usually have a double digit lead in the 4th.
    It also doesn't take into account the fact that the Vikings are still 6-0.

    But hey, that's OK.
    Keep on preaching about how horrible our coach is and how everybody attacks you for being so "objective" and how you are never wrong...
    Nope, link works for me.

    And playing poorly in the 4th might be OK for you, but we won't get far against teams like the Saints or Colts.
    A coaching thing?
    Wow.
    How difficult is it to understand that coaches game plan and teach?
    Players learn and execute.
    The players are not executing.
    The game plans have been just fine.
    [/quote]

    Actually, no. You're not reading the article.

    The article clearly states that we play more of a coverage defense in the 4th quarter and backoff the pass rush, depending primarily on our front four to create their own.

    Based on the offensive and defensive play calls, the Vikings become more conservative in the fourth quarter, focusing more on routine runs and scaling back on blitzes of linebackers and defensive backs.

    "Fortunately, we have a good cushion in the fourth quarter, and you don't have to be as aggressive," Leber said. "We're counting on our front four to get pressure, and we're dropping back and keeping everything in front of us.

    "That's the theory."

    The Denver Broncos, the other 6-0 team in the NFL, deviate from that strategy. They have allowed a league-low seven points in the fourth quarter. In fact, Denver continued to blitz San Diego quarterback Philip Rivers with less than three minutes remaining during its 34-23 win Monday night.
    I would imagine that's the coach's decision.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  5. #45
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "C" wrote:
    Actually, no. You're not reading the article.

    The article clearly states that we play more of a coverage defense in the 4th quarter and backoff the pass rush, depending primarily on our front four to create their own.

    Based on the offensive and defensive play calls, the Vikings become more conservative in the fourth quarter, focusing more on routine runs and scaling back on blitzes of linebackers and defensive backs.

    "Fortunately, we have a good cushion in the fourth quarter, and you don't have to be as aggressive," Leber said. "We're counting on our front four to get pressure, and we're dropping back and keeping everything in front of us.

    "That's the theory."

    The Denver Broncos, the other 6-0 team in the NFL, deviate from that strategy. They have allowed a league-low seven points in the fourth quarter. In fact, Denver continued to blitz San Diego quarterback Philip Rivers with less than three minutes remaining during its 34-23 win Monday night.
    I would imagine that's the coach's decision.
    Now that I can agree with.
    I don't like the shell or prevent defenses.
    Never have.
    I would much rather we continue to be aggressive through the 4th.
    In the first five games, the conservative defense worked - holding our opponents to less than a TD on average.
    In the sixth game it didn't.
    Hopefully we take something away from that.
    When facing a team who has proven that it has a lot of offense in the 4th, don't move to a conservative D.

    My main contention is that the Vikings are not playing poorly in the 4th Q as the original article would lead us to believe.
    They played poorly in the 4th Q against Baltimore, letting them mount a helluva comeback.
    But one game does not define a season, and it is too early IMHO to start preaching doom and gloom.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #46
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    "echizen20" wrote:
    Hello everyone, I just thought I'd like to say whats on my mind about how I feel about this Vikings team.
    You may or may not agree with some of the things i'll say but it's all just a matter of opinion right?

    Right now based on the Vikings record and how they are playing, I will say they are a lock on the NFC North champs.
    I just don't see the other 3 teams in our division better than us at this point.
    I don't see us playing worse during the 2nd half of the season either.
    I think the only thing that will hold us back or not playing at our full potential is if we lose several playmakers to injuries.
    Other than that, I see every team ahead in the schedule beatable, some tougher than others obviously but winnable considering the amount of talent we have.


    Right now, I don't see any team in the NFL that can flat out stop our offense both running and passing.
    While I don't want to say that we have an unstoppable pass or run game, I will say that to this point we have shown and proven that we can run and pass both very effectively.
    We are basically very balanced, probably the most balanced offense in the NFL.
    This means that teams are going to have to be very careful game planning against us.
    We all know that if they put 8 or more men in the box and if Favre really favors the matchups that he sees on the field, he can audible and make something happen downfield, he has shown that already.
    And with AD lined up behind him, teams just seemingly have to always watch out for him.
    Seriously teams just can't play us and be too focused on stopping Peterson or backing out into coverages.
    And if they just leave 7 in the box and are playing both the run and pass, we still have the advantage.
    Just look at how the Ravens played us, they pretty much played to stop AP, Favre burnt them downfield, they backed off, Peterson started getting big runs...and the Ravens were supposed to be our first real test for our offense.
    It's like what the experts are saying, they have to pick their poison.
    If the offense stays healthy, this team can easily put up minimum 20+(30 average) a game.
    I think its safe to say the Saints and maybe the Colts have a little more firepower than us but our team will be the harder one to gameplan against because we are so versatile.
    And come Playoff-Superbowl time, when it matters that you have to be able to Run and Pass, our team can certainly do both very well.

    Offensively I think we have established our Identity and that is, as i said earlier, we are a very good and balanced offense and we're still improving.
    I say that because I totally agree with Favre and I see all the talent as a whole.
    Our Identity on the defense...I'm going to say we haven't really put a print on it yet.
    Just because we haven't shown consistency, we play very well and then end up playing sloppy or viceversa, but what i do know is, like our offense, we have the playmakers and we have the talent.
    I still have yet to see a complete game and consistency from the defense and to see if they can carry that consistency from game to game.
    But consistent or not, the defense has played good enough that when the game is over, the points on our side of the scoreboard is > the opponents.
    And in the end, thats all that matters.
    You move on, you work, you practice, you study, you improve, and then when gameday comes, you play and you play to win.
    I'm not saying we dont have any weaknesses, heck you can't look at the other 31 teams in the NFL and say they don't have weaknesses either, but wins and losses aren't just because of teams own strengths or weaknesses.
    You have to believe wins and losses are resulted by many things, luck, passion, effort, talent, play calling, and most importantly teamwork.
    And the Vikings have certainly displayed all of that for the most part.


    If you look at our team on paper...and look at some of the players we have on the team...and you watch how we have played...and you look at the stats...and you look at our undefeated 6-0 record, we are one of the best teams right now in the NFL.
    Some may argue that we're not the best team in the NFL and that we're only lucky, well even I believe right now we are not the best team in the NFL. But it isn't the best team that always wins games.
    Its the team that by the end of the day has more points.
    And best team or not, i have confidence we can beat anybody.
    I'm sure the Vikings Locker room feel the same way.
    Well this is what I truly feel about this team and as a big Brett Favre and AD fan, i just gotta believe this has to be the year for them to win the championship.
    I realize in the end it may not turn out the way i hope it to, but so far all my expectations have been exceeded of the team and I'm fully enjoying watching this team play week after week, afterall we do have the two most exciting players to watch in the NFL.
    Bump......


    Here is the Title:
    My Assessment and Feelings about the Vikings and where they rank in the NFL

    echizen20 put a lot of effort into starting this thread.
    If you want to talk about specific happening of the Ravens game, please go to the Official Ravens Postgame Thread.
    If you are looking for a post you thought was in this thread, this thread was split and you may find it in the Postgame Thread.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...cseen.html#new

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