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  1. #41
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088180
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1088167
    Quote Originally Posted by "Zeus" #1088053
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1088016
    Well, up to this point the only thing Childress had over Tice was that he cleaned up the conduct of the team with his "Culture of Accountability".
    Tice won 2 division titles and went to the NFC Championship game as the head coach? Really?

    =Z=
    Childress did those things all by himself? Really? There were no players involved or any extra support by the front office to give Childress things Tice never had access to?Really?

    Try this one:

    Which one had a better record the year they got fired?
    Your point is well taken but there are other reasons for that. Not because of coaching. It may have something to do with the amount of injuries, stregnth of schedule, etc... Childress left on bad terms, No doubt about it. But there is no way I'm going to accept the 9-7 record that Tice left as to say he was a better head coach. I could do the same thing. Which coach went to the NFCCG? Which coach had a better overall record? We can go on and on. The one thing I will give Childress over Tice is how he built the team. There is still a lot of talent on the team. Maybe Tice didn't have that opportunity but he did have one of the best QB to WR combinations along with a pretty good running game. His defense stunk but not from a lack of trying. He drafted every year to improve the defense and it did absolutely nothing until Tomlin came in which by the way was hired by Childress.

    I am not going to sit here and say Childress was a great head coach. But I'm not going to debate how Tice was better because that is not true.
    I'd like to point out that Tice wasn't ALLOWED to seek out better coaches for the team. When Billick's contract was up, McCombs let him go and REFUSED to allow Tice to hire a replacement, forcing him to instead promote from within (Which is how Steve Loney wound up as an OC for a year).

    People like to point to the Culpepper-Moss combo as the sole high point of Tice's reign, but consider that Moss was traded in '05, and that same season Culpepper showed how crappy he truly was until he was (thankfully) injured, and Brad Johnson could bail us out.

    Yet, despite losing "one of the best QB to WR combinations" (Which I don't agree with..only Moss was any good), Tice managed to take the team to 9-7...AND beat Green Bay twice that season.

    The point here is that Tice wasn't ALLOWED by cheap ass Red *screws squirrels* McCombs to hire coaches, acquire players, or do ANYTHING. He was also the LOWEST paid Head Coach in the NFL...there were COORDINATORS making more.

    Then you try and contrast that with the open checkbook and complete owner support that Chiler enjoyed.....

    From where I sit, Tice did far more with far less. Childress did only marginally better with COMPLETE support. That speaks volumes about the results the two men got from their respective teams.

    And, at the end of the day, neither guy left us loaded with talent. We have holes all over our roster - most notably at QB. So tell me again how Chiller left us in a better position? Frankly, I don't see it.

    IMHO, Tice is 10 times the coach Chiller will ever be.

    Caine

  2. #42
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1088224
    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088180
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1088167
    Quote Originally Posted by "Zeus" #1088053
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1088016
    Well, up to this point the only thing Childress had over Tice was that he cleaned up the conduct of the team with his "Culture of Accountability".
    Tice won 2 division titles and went to the NFC Championship game as the head coach? Really?

    =Z=
    Childress did those things all by himself? Really? There were no players involved or any extra support by the front office to give Childress things Tice never had access to?Really?

    Try this one:

    Which one had a better record the year they got fired?
    Your point is well taken but there are other reasons for that. Not because of coaching. It may have something to do with the amount of injuries, stregnth of schedule, etc... Childress left on bad terms, No doubt about it. But there is no way I'm going to accept the 9-7 record that Tice left as to say he was a better head coach. I could do the same thing. Which coach went to the NFCCG? Which coach had a better overall record? We can go on and on. The one thing I will give Childress over Tice is how he built the team. There is still a lot of talent on the team. Maybe Tice didn't have that opportunity but he did have one of the best QB to WR combinations along with a pretty good running game. His defense stunk but not from a lack of trying. He drafted every year to improve the defense and it did absolutely nothing until Tomlin came in which by the way was hired by Childress.

    I am not going to sit here and say Childress was a great head coach. But I'm not going to debate how Tice was better because that is not true.
    I'd like to point out that Tice wasn't ALLOWED to seek out better coaches for the team. When Billick's contract was up, McCombs let him go and REFUSED to allow Tice to hire a replacement, forcing him to instead promote from within (Which is how Steve Loney wound up as an OC for a year).

    People like to point to the Culpepper-Moss combo as the sole high point of Tice's reign, but consider that Moss was traded in '05, and that same season Culpepper showed how crappy he truly was until he was (thankfully) injured, and Brad Johnson could bail us out.

    Yet, despite losing "one of the best QB to WR combinations" (Which I don't agree with..only Moss was any good), Tice managed to take the team to 9-7...AND beat Green Bay twice that season.

    The point here is that Tice wasn't ALLOWED by cheap ass Red *screws squirrels* McCombs to hire coaches, acquire players, or do ANYTHING. He was also the LOWEST paid Head Coach in the NFL...there were COORDINATORS making more.

    Then you try and contrast that with the open checkbook and complete owner support that Chiler enjoyed.....

    From where I sit, Tice did far more with far less. Childress did only marginally better with COMPLETE support. That speaks volumes about the results the two men got from their respective teams.

    And, at the end of the day, neither guy left us loaded with talent. We have holes all over our roster - most notably at QB. So tell me again how Chiller left us in a better position? Frankly, I don't see it.

    IMHO, Tice is 10 times the coach Chiller will ever be.

    Caine
    I agree with your point about Tice being handcuffed by Red. That was obviously true. I'm not so sure Culpepper was as bad as you are saying though. Before I go on let's try and remember I was the first one on PPO to speak up and say the Vikings should trade Culpepper after his injury. I was called crazy and other insults. But the fact is even without Randy Moss for a good part of the year and without knowing how to read a defense he still threw for 4717 yards and had a pretty darn good year. The problem with Culpepper was the fact he did have a problem reading defenses and after his injury he had to learn a whole new style of QBing because his top stregnth was being able to run. He could no longer do that.

    On to Tice vs Chilly. Again, I'm not here to pick one over the other. All the points I, you and PF bring to the table are all valid. Especially the one that each were in two very different situations. The point that Tice did more with may or may not be true. I saw him call plays that were pretty bad. Plays where Chilly would have been criticized far beyond belief. How about the end around pass from Moss to the endzone against Seattle with 2 minutes left in the game. Hell even if we would have scored instead of the ball being INTd the Seahawks had plenty of time to drive down the field against are ridiculous defense that couldn't stop a pop warner team.

    How about starting 6-0 and finishing 8-8? That was a classic. Especially the last game of the season and losing on a 4th down to the lowly Cardinals on a hail mary pass. There are plenty of things to talk about regarding the two coaches. I liked Tice as the OL coach. We had one of the best OLs in football then. He just wasn't a very good head coach. If he were I am sure there would have been teams jumping at the chance to hire him as one. Still, it's 5 years later and he's been on two different teams yet he's back where he was before he became the head coach of the Vikings. The OL coach.

  3. #43
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088246
    I agree with your point about Tice being handcuffed by Red. That was obviously true. I'm not so sure Culpepper was as bad as you are saying though. Before I go on let's try and remember I was the first one on PPO to speak up and say the Vikings should trade Culpepper after his injury. I was called crazy and other insults. But the fact is even without Randy Moss for a good part of the year and without knowing how to read a defense he still threw for 4717 yards and had a pretty darn good year. The problem with Culpepper was the fact he did have a problem reading defenses and after his injury he had to learn a whole new style of QBing because his top stregnth was being able to run. He could no longer do that.
    I am pretty much in agreement with you on those points.

    On to Tice vs Chilly. Again, I'm not here to pick one over the other. All the points I, you and PF bring to the table are all valid. Especially the one that each were in two very different situations. The point that Tice did more with may or may not be true. I saw him call plays that were pretty bad. Plays where Chilly would have been criticized far beyond belief.
    Tice was pretty highly criticized too and I know that I was certainly open to making a change at the HC position as well. My argument is really only that we did not gain anything by hiring Childress. In the end what we got from him was no step up from what we could have gotten from Tice with the same level of support. So while my comments may seem to be a defense of Tice they are really an indictment of both coaches for not being capable of winning the big game for us.

    How about the end around pass from Moss to the endzone against Seattle with 2 minutes left in the game.
    Or that great call from Childress to punt against Tennessee at the end of the game when we were behind.

    Hell even if we would have scored instead of the ball being INTd the Seahawks had plenty of time to drive down the field against are ridiculous defense that couldn't stop a pop warner team.
    And with the KAO there was rarely (Except for 2009 maybe) a time where we were a threat when we were behind.

    How about starting 6-0 and finishing 8-8? That was a classic.
    Or going 12-4 one year and tanking the next year with the same team. How about getting clobbered by the Packers by some of the widest margins in the history of the rivalry under Childress. Embarassing.

    Especially the last game of the season and losing on a 4th down to the lowly Cardinals on a hail mary pass.
    NFCCG 12 men on the field. Penalty puts us out of FG range that could have sealed the game.


    There are plenty of things to talk about regarding the two coaches. I liked Tice as the OL coach. We had one of the best OLs in football then. He just wasn't a very good head coach. If he were I am sure there would have been teams jumping at the chance to hire him as one. Still, it's 5 years later and he's been on two different teams yet he's back where he was before he became the head coach of the Vikings. The OL coach.
    Time has yet to reveal what will become of Childress but Tice at least got a job right away and did a good job of making his unit better. Childress has yet to sniff a job at any level with any team. My guess is his career will track similar to what Tice is doing or probably less.

    Tice did understand at least that a strong OL is the key to a productive offense which brings us full circle to your opening statement about Culpepper and the 4700 yards.

  4. #44
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    Quote Originally Posted by "battleaxe4cheese" #1088210
    I don't see Diana sticking with him. His home life must be hell right now. Can you imagine his kids and the teasing going on? What a mess.
    That would explain why he doesn't like to stay retired. :P

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #45
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1088248
    Quote Originally Posted by "ejmat" #1088246
    I agree with your point about Tice being handcuffed by Red. That was obviously true. I'm not so sure Culpepper was as bad as you are saying though. Before I go on let's try and remember I was the first one on PPO to speak up and say the Vikings should trade Culpepper after his injury. I was called crazy and other insults. But the fact is even without Randy Moss for a good part of the year and without knowing how to read a defense he still threw for 4717 yards and had a pretty darn good year. The problem with Culpepper was the fact he did have a problem reading defenses and after his injury he had to learn a whole new style of QBing because his top stregnth was being able to run. He could no longer do that.
    I am pretty much in agreement with you on those points.

    On to Tice vs Chilly. Again, I'm not here to pick one over the other. All the points I, you and PF bring to the table are all valid. Especially the one that each were in two very different situations. The point that Tice did more with may or may not be true. I saw him call plays that were pretty bad. Plays where Chilly would have been criticized far beyond belief.
    Tice was pretty highly criticized too and I know that I was certainly open to making a change at the HC position as well. My argument is really only that we did not gain anything by hiring Childress. In the end what we got from him was no step up from what we could have gotten from Tice with the same level of support. So while my comments may seem to be a defense of Tice they are really an indictment of both coaches for not being capable of winning the big game for us.

    How about the end around pass from Moss to the endzone against Seattle with 2 minutes left in the game.
    Or that great call from Childress to punt against Tennessee at the end of the game when we were behind.

    Hell even if we would have scored instead of the ball being INTd the Seahawks had plenty of time to drive down the field against are ridiculous defense that couldn't stop a pop warner team.
    And with the KAO there was rarely (Except for 2009 maybe) a time where we were a threat when we were behind.

    How about starting 6-0 and finishing 8-8? That was a classic.
    Or going 12-4 one year and tanking the next year with the same team. How about getting clobbered by the Packers by some of the widest margins in the history of the rivalry under Childress. Embarassing.

    Especially the last game of the season and losing on a 4th down to the lowly Cardinals on a hail mary pass.
    NFCCG 12 men on the field. Penalty puts us out of FG range that could have sealed the game.


    There are plenty of things to talk about regarding the two coaches. I liked Tice as the OL coach. We had one of the best OLs in football then. He just wasn't a very good head coach. If he were I am sure there would have been teams jumping at the chance to hire him as one. Still, it's 5 years later and he's been on two different teams yet he's back where he was before he became the head coach of the Vikings. The OL coach.
    Time has yet to reveal what will become of Childress but Tice at least got a job right away and did a good job of making his unit better. Childress has yet to sniff a job at any level with any team. My guess is his career will track similar to what Tice is doing or probably less.

    Tice did understand at least that a strong OL is the key to a productive offense which brings us full circle to your opening statement about Culpepper and the 4700 yards.
    Pretty good post other than the second to last paragraph imo. Childress has "sniffed" other jobs. He has interviewed for Miami and Cincy. I don't know whether or not the teams snubbed him or vice versa. But he has had opportunities. I do think Childress understands a strong OL is a big key to success. One of his first moves was to go out and get Hutch. I will agree he stayed stagnant too long at the OL positions however.

  6. #46
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    They Even Belittle Brett Favre’s Manhood At Mardi Gras

    Pretty funny link to a deadspin story on a Mardi-Gras float titled "Minnesota Chubby".

  7. #47
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    Re: More Lewd Texts by Favre & Vikings Players

    from the looks of the therapist, she might be a dude! Maybe he's a little pissed off that AY has a bigger tripod than his own!!! inch:

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