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  1. #1
    GBMiah is offline Rookie
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    Alright, something came over me and I just had to get these thoughts down. I browse this sight very often. I dont post alot but I am very active here, and I read LOTS. Its a great site, very well put together. A very excellent fan/community sight.

    In observing all the many manner of posts on many a different topics, I've really come to see the Minnesota Vikings and the fans in a much clearer way. You guys are just as passionate about your team as most any other group in the league, there might not be as many Vikings fans as there are Packer fans but, pound for pound you guys rank right up there. For any group of fans to stick by a team with all you've been through over the last decade is pretty impressive. The 15-1 NFC championship loss. The numerous late season collapses etc etc. Im sure you need not be reminded of all that again. But it really is a testament. Before Favre the Packers went through about 20 years of being the laughing stock of the league. Coaches used to threaten players with banishment to GreenBay! But that stings in a way that you get used to after a bit, yeah it depressing but its not a huge disappointment every year because you know its inevitable. For the Vikes fans to stick with that team through all the SB losses and the oh'so'close calls of the last decade, I really must take my hat off to you all. :salute:

    We should all feel lucky that our division is the cradle where the NFL was born. (if I remember my NFL history correctly) I believe the first pro leagues were formed out of the Midwest great lakes area, and spread on to the east coast from there and then on throughout the country. Even though the Vikings arent yet 50, There must have most certianly been smaller local teams that participated in the early leagues of the 20's (any Minnesota sports historians?) What Im getting at is we midwesterner's have football in our blood in a way the south will never achieve. And in shows in the fans that support the teams of the NFC Norris, and as of late the fans of the Minnesota Vikings..
    Inhale it. Savor it. Drink with your eyes and taste with every fiber of your flesh, revelations come through experience.

  2. #2
    LamBLOWfield is offline Waterboy
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    Yea, i remeber coming home the day of the 98' Div. game. I remember how angry I was, but what made me feel even worse was the look in my dads eyes, the look of sheer dissapointment. I felt so bad; we both thought that it was thier year. Somehow I think ever since then he hasn't been the same Vikings fan, he also says how they are going to choke even before a game has started. I try to ignore it, but its hard, but i continue, and always will to be a strong loyal Vikings fan, no matter what happens. PURPLE PRIDE!!!!!! PURPLE PRIDE!!!!!!!!
    if you choke a smurf what color does it turn?

  3. #3
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    It is a numbing experience at times. It is the mediocrity that keeps you hanging on. If your team sucks you lose interest but we always see to field an average team or an above average team that just doesn't have the gas to make it to the SB.

    I think it is more painful to have the team to route for with the mediocrity but I would rather have it that way than to be bannished to the basement of the league for years at a time like the Cards.

    Or the Bucs even though they have won one SB.

  4. #4
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    "GBMiah" wrote:
    Alright, something came over me and I just had to get these thoughts down. I browse this sight very often. I dont post alot but I am very active here, and I read LOTS. Its a great site, very well put together. A very excellent fan/community sight.

    In observing all the many manner of posts on many a different topics, I've really come to see the Minnesota Vikings and the fans in a much clearer way. You guys are just as passionate about your team as most any other group in the league, there might not be as many Vikings fans as there are Packer fans but, pound for pound you guys rank right up there. For any group of fans to stick by a team with all you've been through over the last decade is pretty impressive. The 15-1 NFC championship loss. The numerous late season collapses etc etc. Im sure you need not be reminded of all that again. But it really is a testament. Before Favre the Packers went through about 20 years of being the laughing stock of the league. Coaches used to threaten players with banishment to GreenBay! But that stings in a way that you get used to after a bit, yeah it depressing but its not a huge disappointment every year because you know its inevitable. For the Vikes fans to stick with that team through all the SB losses and the oh'so'close calls of the last decade, I really must take my hat off to you all. :salute:

    We should all feel lucky that our division is the cradle where the NFL was born. (if I remember my NFL history correctly) I believe the first pro leagues were formed out of the Midwest great lakes area, and spread on to the east coast from there and then on throughout the country. Even though the Vikings arent yet 50, There must have most certianly been smaller local teams that participated in the early leagues of the 20's (any Minnesota sports historians?) What Im getting at is we midwesterner's have football in our blood in a way the south will never achieve. And in shows in the fans that support the teams of the NFC Norris, and as of late the fans of the Minnesota Vikings..

    Ask and you shall receive:

    History
    The original Minneapolis Marines were a unique semi-pro team made up of players who had begun playing together as youngsters in 1905, in a youth league with a weight limit of 115 pounds. None of them ever played football for a high school or college team. Their top player was quarterback Rube Ursella, an outstanding kicker who had a 22-year professional career, including four stints as a player-coach in the NFL.

    The Marines won the city championship in 1910, then lost in the title game two years in a row. One of the players, Johnny Dunn, took over as team manager in 1913 and brought in a coach, Ossie Solem, who had played end at the University of Minnesota. Solem later coached Syracuse and Iowa. The team also added some outside players for the first time. The major addition was Bob Marshall, one of pro football's first black players. Marshall, who had starred at Minnesota, was a 6-foot-2, 195-pound end.

    That year, the Marines won the city championship game, 33-0, and they followed that with a 48-0 victory in 1914.

    Having overpowered the local opposition, Dunn moved the team to Nicollet Park, home of the Minneapolis Millers baseball team, and began scheduling games against out of town teams in 1915. Over the next three years, the Marines won 34 straight regular season games. However, they lost twice and played one tie in an annual Thanksgiving Day game against University of Minnesota all-star teams.

    After missing the 1918 season entirely because of the influenza epidemic, the Marines lost several of their top players, including Marshall and Ursella, to the Rock Island Independents, and they were never again a top-notch team. In 1921, Dunn bought a franchise in the American Professional Football Association, hoping that games against APFA teams would bring in enough spectators and revenue to allow him to rebuild the team, but it didn't happen. He pulled out of the league, which had become the NFL, after the 1924 season.

    In 1929, Dunn and Val Ness became co-owners of a new NFL franchise, the Minneapolis Red Jackets, so named because the Marines had worn red jerseys, but that didn't work either. Beginning November 8, 1930, the Red Jackets virtually merged with another weak team, the Frankford Yellow Jackets. Frankford could play home games only on Saturday because of Pennsylvania's blue laws, so the merged team played as the Yellow Jackets on Saturdays and as the Red Jackets on Sundays. That didn't help. After the season, Minneapolis dropped out of the NFL.

    Minneapolis Red Jackets/Marines

    Year LG Team name Record
    1930 NFL Minneapolis Red Jackets 1-7-1
    1929 NFL Minneapolis Red Jackets 1-9-0
    1924 NFL Minneapolis Marines 0-6-0
    1923 NFL Minneapolis Marines 3-5-1
    1922 NFL Minneapolis Marines 1-3-0
    1921 NFL Minneapolis Marines 1-3-0
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #5
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    Here's more than you EVER wanted to know:

    THE MINNEAPOLIS MARINES: MINNESOTA'S FORGOTTEN NFL TEAM
    By Jim Quirk
    The Coffin Corner Volume XX, 1998

    There are many obscure small town teams that show up briefly in the records of the NFL for the early 1920s, but one of the least well known is the Minneapolis Marines (APFA 1921, NFL 1922-1924). The Marines, owned by locals Johnny Dunn and Val Ness, had a dismal APFA/NFL W-L-T record entirely consistent with the team's obscurity in the annals of pro football: 1921 1-3-0, 1922 1-3-0, 1923 2-5-2, 1924 0-6-0. But the NFL record of the Marines gives a misleading picture of the team's true standing among the earliest pro football teams, because it was in the pre-APFA/NFL years that the Marines reached their peak as a team.

    The Marines were organized way back in 1905, as a team of working class teenagers, most of whom lived close to the Cedar/Washington avenue district of the near south side of Minneapolis, about a mile or so south of the present-day Metrodome.

    The team began play in the 115-pound weight class, and by 1907 had moved up to the 145-pound weight class. It was also in 1907 that the Marines acquired the group of players who constituted the core of the team for the next ten years: Rube Ursella (qb), Walt "Big Boy" Buland (t), Clarence "Sheepy" Redeen (e), Arthur "Dutch" Gaustad (g), Harry Wegfors (c), and Johnny Dunn (hb and captain). In 1909, the team added Mike Palmer (t), Harold Selvig (c,g), Oswald Sundby (fb) and Labe Safro, "the Jewish Lion", (hb) to its list of regulars.

    Rube Ursella was the true super-star of the team, had a long and successful pro football career with the Marines and the Rock Island Independents, and also played several seasons of minor league baseball (Northern League). Despite his size (5'9, 170 pounds), Ursella was both an offensive and defensive standout, but it was his skill as a kicker -- punting and drop kicking -- that highlighted his 22-year pro football career. Johnny Dunn was the breakaway scat back in the Marines' offense, but, as with the other successful ear1y pro teams, it was the Marines rock solid defense that won most of their games, headed by Buland and Gaustad.

    The Marines were a rather remarkable team. Up to the 1913 season, no players on the team had any high school or college playing experience -- this was truly a blue collar team. The core personnel of the team remained unchanged for almost ten years. And, once the kids forming the team had grown into the unlimited weight category, from 1910 on, the Marines became the best and then the absolutely dominant "independent" team in the upper Midwest region, right up to World War I.

    Between 1910 and 19l4, the big game of the year in Minneapolis independent football was between the Beavers and the Marines. The Beavers were also a south side team, but from a more affluent area of town. In contrast to the Marines, most of the Beaver players had college playing experience, many at the college of St. Thomas over in St. Paul. The undefeated Marines won the city title in 1910 by beating the Beavers 6-0, and then saw undefeated seasons go by the boards in 1911 and 1912 with upset victories by the Beavers in the title games, 6-0 and 7-3.

    After the 1912 loss to the Beavers, there were major changes made in the organization of the team. For the first time the Marines hired an outside coach in Ossie Solem, a standout end with Doc Williams' 1912 Minnesota Gophers, and later a coach at Syracuse and then at Iowa. Solem stayed with the Marines through the 1915 season, and introduced the Minnesota shift and the single wing formation to the team, which had played the old fashioned T-formation up to that time.

    And, again for the first time, the Marines added ex-college players, headed by the best semi-pro player in the Twin Cities, Bobby Marshall, the first great black player at the University of Minnesota (1903-1906). At 6'2" and 195 pounds, Marshall was a big, tough end, who was almost indestructible. He was still playing charity football games in the Twin Cities in the mid-193Os, when he was over 50 years old. The Marines also added ex-collegians Dewey Lyle and Frank Dries, as well as the future pro star, Fred Chicken.

    The Marines peaked as a team in the pre-World War I years (1913-1917), under the leadership of Johnny Dunn, who combined playing time with time spent in the front office as manager of the team, before retiring from playing in 1920. In 1913, the Marines won their annual battle with the Beavers 33-0, and in 1914 it was another rout, 48-0. The Beavers disbanded after the 1914 season. Until that time, the Marines had played their home games in the North Side Park; from 1915 on, the Marines made the AA Minneapolis Millers' Nicollet Park their home field.

    With the Beavers out of the picture, the Marines had no strong local opposition. Johnny Dunn began scheduling out of town games with teams from Duluth, Davenport, and Rock Island, to fill in the Marines' schedule.

    The annual city independent title game was replaced by a Thanksgiving Day game at Nicollet Park against a team of college All-Stars, featuring ex-Gopher players. The Marines played in this game every year from 1913 through 1923, (excluding the war years of 1917 and 1918) against such players as Johnny McGovern, Bert Baston, George Hauser, Paul Flinn, Paul DesJardien, and the like. From 1913 through 1917, the Marines were undefeated and untied in 34 successive regular season games, but lost to the All-Stars twice and tied them once in the Thanksgiving Day game.

    Independent football shut down completely in 1918, due to the flu epidemic. When the 1919 season rolled around, Johnny Dunn still headed the Marines, but Marshall, Ursella, Buland, Lyle, and Chicken all moved to the Rock Island Independents, which posted a 9-1-0 record for the year, and staked claim to the pro championship of the country. Four ex-Marines were listed as starters or honorable mentions on the the first all-pro team ever compiled (admittedly, by a Rock Island paper).

    With their core players gone, the Marines never regained their pre-war form, nor did they draw crowds like the pre-war teams. Johnny Dunn tried valiantly to find a way to keep the team solvent, including joining the APFA in 1921 to bring quality competition into the Twin Cities, but the team went under after the 1924 season.

    Dunn and co-owner Val Ness attempted to resurrect Twin Cities pro football in 1929 with a new version of the Marines, the Minneapolis Red Jackets (the Marines had worn a uniform featuring red jerseys with red and white striped sleeves), but after one and one half seasons, the Red Jackets also went broke, merged with the Philadelphia Yellow Jackets, and went out of existence.

    Season Records: 1905-1924

    1905 3-0-0 42- 0
    1906 no record

    1907 4-1-1 57-18
    Ends: Benson, Redeen
    Tackles: Buland, Barbour
    Guards: Gaustad, Lindquist
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Nordly, Hoffman
    Fullback: Larson

    1908 6-0-0 92-5
    Ends: Benson, Redeen
    Tackles: Buland, H. Jonassen
    Guards: Gaustad, Lindquist
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Dunn, C. Jonassen
    Fullback: Larson

    1909 4-1-0 68-5
    Ends: Redeen, Mullen
    Tackles: Buland, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Peterson
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Dunn, Larson
    Fullback: Sundby

    1910 4-0-1 51-0
    Ends: Redeen, Mullen
    Tackles: Palmer, Schroeder
    Guards: Gaustad, Selvig
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Dunn, Larson
    Fullback: Sundby

    1911 3-1-1 86-11
    Ends: Redeen, C. Jonassen
    Tackles: Buland, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Selvig
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Dunn, Hoffman
    Fullback: Sundby

    1912 8-2-0 293-37
    Ends: Methven, C. Jonassen
    Tackles: Buland, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Tallukson
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Dunn, Larson
    Fullback: Sundby

    1913 8-1-0 * 254-39
    Ends: Redeen, C. Jonassen
    Tackles: Buland, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Selvig
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Marshall, Safro
    Fullback: Sundby
    * Loss to All Star team

    1914 5-1-0 * 233-14
    Ends: Redeen, Marshall
    Tackles: Buland, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Selvig
    Center: Wegfors
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Costello, Dries
    Fullback: Sundby
    * Loss to All Star team

    1915 6-1-0 * 134-7
    Ends: Redeen, Marshall
    Tackles: Buland, Lyle
    Guards: Gaustad, Palmer
    Center: Selvig
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Safro, Costello
    Fullback: Chicken
    * Loss to All Star team

    1916 8-0-1 ** 217-3
    Ends: Redeen, Marshall
    Tackles: Buland, Lyle
    Guards: Gaustad, Selvig
    Center: Gunderson
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Safro, Chicken
    Fullback: Sampson
    **Tied All Star team

    1917 7-0-0 239-38
    Ends: Redeen, Marshall
    Tackles: Buland, Halloran
    Guards: Gaustad, Dunne
    Center: Gunderson
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Chicken, Novak
    Fullback: Sampson

    1918 No team

    1919 5-2-1 104-67
    Ends: Redeen, Christiansen
    Tackles: Erickson, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Norbeck
    Center: Gunderson
    Quarterback: Dunn
    Halfbacks: Tersch, Jordan
    Fullback: Sundby

    1920 5-1-2 74-3
    Ends: Redeen, Christiansen
    Tackles: Erickson, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Tersch
    Center: Nelson
    Quarterback: Irgens
    Halfbacks: Cleve, Sampson
    Fullback: Jordan

    1921 3-4-0 53-55
    (APFA 1-3-0 37-41)
    Ends: Redeen, Christiansen
    Tackles: Erickson, Palmer
    Guards: Gaustad, Kramer
    Center: Gunderson
    Quarterback: Ursella
    Halfbacks: Regnier, Dvorak
    Fullback: Sampson

    1922 5-3-0 47-40
    (NFL 1-3-0 19-40)
    Ends: Flinn, Kraft
    Tackles: Erickson, Tersch
    Guards: Gaustad, Kramer
    Center: Mehre
    Quarterback: Norton
    Halfbacks: Irgens, Cleve
    Fullback: Sampson


    1923 4-5-2 62-87
    (NFL 2-5-2 48-81)
    Ends: Flinn, Mohe
    Tackles: Baril, Tersch
    Guards: Gaustad, Tierney
    Center: Mehre
    Quarterback: Kaplan
    Halfbacks: Cleve, Pahl
    Fullback: Sampson

    1924 2-6-0 28-116
    (NFL 0-6-0 14-108)
    Ends: Christiansen, Mohe
    Tackles: Dunnegan, Scott
    Guards: Tierney, Kramer
    Center: Madigan
    Quarterback: Houle
    Halfbacks: Norton, Novak
    Fullback: Simons

    Red Jackets
    1929 1-9-0 48-185
    Ends: Haycraft, Lundell
    Tackles: Franta, Widerquist
    Guards: Charpe, Lovis
    Center: Young
    Quarterback: Willigalle
    Halfbacks: Nydahl, Erickson
    Fullback: Joesting

    1930 1-7-1 31-165
    Ends: Haycraft, Lundell
    Tackles: Franta, Ward
    Guards: Gibson, Steponovich
    Center: Barrager
    Quarterback: Pederson
    Halfbacks: Pharmer, Pape
    Fullback: Joesting
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  6. #6
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    There was a Duluth team also:

    Duluth Kelleys 1923-25;
    Duluth Eskimos 1926-27

    History
    Duluth's NFL franchise was originally a kind of cooperative, owned by 11 players. They split expenses and profits, if there were any. The team was known as the Kelleys because the Duluth-Kelley Hardware Store bought the uniforms.

    In 1925, the players ending up losing more than $44 apiece, so they asked their volunteer secretary-treasurer, Ole Haugsrud, to take over the franchise. He and the team's coach, Dewey Scanlon, paid a dollar to make it a legal transaction.

    Haugsrud felt that the team needed one big star who could draw fans, and he'd gone to high school in Superior, Wisconsin, with just such a star: Ernie Nevers, the All-American fullback from Stanford. The NFL was facing a major challenge in 1926 from the American Football League organized by Red Grange and his manager, C. C. Pyle. Pyle claimed that he had already signed Nevers for the AFL, but Haugsrud learned that Nevers hadn't accepted the offer yet. So he made Nevers an even better offer.

    The team became as Ernie Nevers' Duluth Eskimos, and Haugsrud agreed that they would play all their league games on the road, in exchange for a sizeable cut of gate receipts. NFL owners were quick to schedule games with the Eskimos because of Nevers' box office value.

    The result was the longest road trip in sports history. The Eskimos played 29 games, including 16 exhibitions, from October into February. After two home exhibition games, they were on the road. They ended with a respectable 6-5-3 NFL record and a profit.

    However, 1927 was a bad year. With the AFL threat ended and Grange now playing for his own team, the New York Yankees, in the NFL, owners weren't so eager to schedule the Eskimos and fans weren't so eager to see Nevers. Duluth slipped to a 1-8-0 record.

    Nevers then decided to return to Stanford as an assistant coach to Pop Warner, and the NFL gave Haugsrud permission to put the franchise in mothballs for the 1928 season. Then he sold it to a promoter in Orange, New Jersey, who used it for a new team called the Tornadoes.


    Year-by-Year Record
    Year W L T Finish Coach
    1923 4 3 0 7th NFL Joey Sternaman
    1924 5 1 0 4th NFL Dewey Scanlon
    1925 0 3 0 16th NFL Dewey Scanlon
    1926 6 5 3 8th NFL Dewey Scanlon
    1927 1 8 0 11th NFL Ernie Nevers
    Totals 16 20 3
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  7. #7
    Vikes's Avatar
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    "GBMiah" wrote:
    Alright, something came over me and I just had to get these thoughts down. I browse this sight very often. I dont post alot but I am very active here, and I read LOTS. Its a great site, very well put together. A very excellent fan/community sight.

    In observing all the many manner of posts on many a different topics, I've really come to see the Minnesota Vikings and the fans in a much clearer way. You guys are just as passionate about your team as most any other group in the league, there might not be as many Vikings fans as there are Packer fans but, pound for pound you guys rank right up there. For any group of fans to stick by a team with all you've been through over the last decade is pretty impressive. The 15-1 NFC championship loss. The numerous late season collapses etc etc. Im sure you need not be reminded of all that again. But it really is a testament. Before Favre the Packers went through about 20 years of being the laughing stock of the league. Coaches used to threaten players with banishment to GreenBay! But that stings in a way that you get used to after a bit, yeah it depressing but its not a huge disappointment every year because you know its inevitable. For the Vikes fans to stick with that team through all the SB losses and the oh'so'close calls of the last decade, I really must take my hat off to you all. :salute:

    We should all feel lucky that our division is the cradle where the NFL was born. (if I remember my NFL history correctly) I believe the first pro leagues were formed out of the Midwest great lakes area, and spread on to the east coast from there and then on throughout the country. Even though the Vikings arent yet 50, There must have most certianly been smaller local teams that participated in the early leagues of the 20's (any Minnesota sports historians?) What Im getting at is we midwesterner's have football in our blood in a way the south will never achieve. And in shows in the fans that support the teams of the NFC Norris, and as of late the fans of the Minnesota Vikings..
    Thanks!
    300

    The rigors of Spartan life. Leonidas is cast out into the wild, and survives the harsh winter to return to his home, when he is crowned King ....a Viking!

    300

  8. #8
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    GBMiah & Cajun very good posts! I had forgotten about the Marines (redjackets) and the Eskimos. It was nice to read about them again.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  9. #9
    Webby's Avatar
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    Wow, to steal a quote from Garage Login:

    You learn more here by accident than other places by design.

  10. #10
    Potus2028 is offline Hall of Famer
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    The Minnesota Vikings - A Packer fans perspective

    wow... that was an amazng post cajunvike...
    i myself pictured being there in those parks in 1906 rooting for ursella and his redcoated marines...

    i do remember going accross the nfl website seeing the minnesota marines under the standings for professional football... but did not know the whole story, like you told it... awesome
    A+

    :king:
    i m better than you, so just give up...

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