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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Finally, some threads thinking what I've been thinking...OLINE needs to step up!!
    All right, eight games in isn't many, but we really, really need to start seeing improvement!
    It is hard to judge any other part of our offense at this point.

    I'm getting more and more afraid of what the percentage of green to purple might be in the dome tomorrow...they're close enough to buy tickets early.
    And the whole record thingy has got them fired up!
    It might not be as quiet (or as loud vs.) as we'd like to hope!
    D'oh!!
    I almost factored that in to my planning assumptions as a limiting factor but elected to ignore that possibility.

    Bottom line up front they need to be able to play at home as well as away.


    On a side note, lets hope they are the quiet type Pucker fans.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "Ltrey" wrote:
    I think it's funny. Whenever we play an opponent that isn't familiar with us (i.e. the Chiefs last week) their fans come in here and talk about how good our line is, yet we get whooped each and every week in pass protection.

    This line has been together as a whole for about 8 games (with Cook and Hicks on the right side) and the left side has been together for more than a year now. It's almost time to stop calling them a work in progress and start calling them a failure.
    i've been calling them the biggest problem in another thread and been getting crap from V that they are the best part of a bad offense.
    well if they are the best part, why are they making the qbs look so bad and not giving the wrs a chance to get open?
    they are the ones that are sticking out to me looking bad.
    they can run block pretty good, but they should be able to as big as they are, but the pass protection is a joke.
    as i said in the other thread, if this doesnt get better we are not going to get a good read on any of the young players cuz you can't run an offense if you can't protect.
    "Crap" from V? I simply made a sound argument on how there are other ways to beat the blitz, but we don't have the talent to do it. Clearly my words have been wasted on you.

    There are a plethora of examples, the Cowboys last year and the Texans this year to name two, of teams had solved the problem of QB pressure simply by putting in a better QB in there.

    The OL has had trouble pass blocking. Holcomb has been hesitant in the pocket. Jackson made some bad decisions two games ago. Those are all facts. If you want to single out the OL as the offense's only problem, fine. IMO, there are other problems that exist.

    We can choose to try and pick up the blitz, or we can choose to beat the blitz, which is what the WCO calles for (Favre, McNabb, and Elway come to mind). However, right now, with an underperforming OL, and a lack of talent at the skill positions, we can't do either well. I don't know how that does not make sense to you.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  3. #13
    mountainviking's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    I'll give you that V, the OLINE is not our only problem.
    Ferguson has already dropped several passes.
    TJack gave that game to the Lions!
    Chester Taylor, Tony Richardson, and Williamson have missed games due to injury.
    Rice, Wade, and Shank have looked pretty good when given the oppurtunity, but the pressure and sacks have limited the opportunities...

    If it wasn't for Adrian and Mewelde making people miss, we'd probably have less than half our yardage so far.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    I'll give you that V, the OLINE is not our only problem.
    Ferguson has already dropped several passes.
    TJack gave that game to the Lions!
    Chester Taylor, Tony Richardson, and Williamson have missed games due to injury.
    Rice, Wade, and Shank have looked pretty good when given the oppurtunity, but the pressure and sacks have limited the opportunities...

    If it wasn't for Adrian and Mewelde making people miss, we'd probably have less than half our yardage so far.
    I like what both you and V have to say, but both of you also have to admit that although we have multiple problems all of them can be improved on in a very short time if the OL was performing better.

    Inexperienced QB's do perform well if they have two things in thier favor, a good running game (we have a great one) and a OL can protect them long enough for them to make the correct reads in the passing game.
    Our guys, unfortunately aren't doing the later.

    If the OL doesn't give the QB time to read the Defense (after the snap) then the young Jedi will suck, the running game will be degraded and our backs will start getting hurt.
    2 out of those 3 have already happened.


    TJ started getting pressure and he threw the ball around in the Lions game.
    Thats bad but to be expected and we already have had 1 FB and 1 RB on the pine because of injury.
    All very bad indicators that can be directly traced back to bad OL play my friends.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    I'll give you that V, the OLINE is not our only problem.
    Ferguson has already dropped several passes.
    TJack gave that game to the Lions!
    Chester Taylor, Tony Richardson, and Williamson have missed games due to injury.
    Rice, Wade, and Shank have looked pretty good when given the oppurtunity, but the pressure and sacks have limited the opportunities...

    If it wasn't for Adrian and Mewelde making people miss, we'd probably have less than half our yardage so far.
    I like what both you and V have to say, but both of you also have to admit that although we have multiple problems all of them can be improved on in a very short time if the OL was performing better.

    Inexperienced QB's do perform well if they have two things in thier favor, a good running game (we have a great one) and a OL can protect them long enough for them to make the correct reads in the passing game.
    Our guys, unfortunately aren't doing the later.

    If the OL doesn't give the QB time to read the Defense (after the snap) then the young Jedi will suck, the running game will be degraded and our backs will start getting hurt.
    2 out of those 3 have already happened.


    TJ started getting pressure and he threw the ball around in the Lions game.
    Thats bad but to be expected and we already have had 1 FB and 1 RB on the pine because of injury.
    All very bad indicators that can be directly traced back to bad OL play my friends.
    dead on marrdro, and exactly my points.
    to say that we dont have the talent at the skill positions is ignoring the fact that we can't know that if they dont get the oppurtunity due to poor line play.
    V continues to say i'm ignoring his points, but when you make a broad claim like we dont have the skill position players when they can't even get there hands on the ball cuz of too much pressure, it's ignoring the main problem.


    now this week they looked the best they have in pass blocking this year. there was still decent pressure but the line gave holcomb good protection on many more plays than i've seen all year.
    which showed in our production stat wise.
    that's why you were able to see the skills of a sidney rice, shiancoe, williamson.
    problem is holcomb is not, and will never be the answer.
    he's a stop gap, till your starter gets back, nothing more.
    if tjack was healthy enough to dress and step in if something happened to holcomb, i'm not following why he wouldnt just start.
    if that's farve he's in there.
    if childress is gonna start backpedalling after he put all his eggs in tjacks basket, than he will not last very long as our head coach.


    my point overall is, there is no problem with our skill positions.
    running back, wr, and te have talent there.
    obviously there is still a question at qb but thats why tjack has to play to prove if he is the answer.
    thats gonna be on childress.
    but the o-line has to play more like they did this past week if they are gonna give our skill players any chance of proving their worth.
    so if you can't see that point, than i am wasting my words on you V.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  6. #16
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    So what are we going for??? A line like the Dolphins had in the 70s.....give the ball to Czonka and block type game telling other teams stop us from running if you can?? Or are we looking for pocket protection blockers or the right combination of both?? I tend to think the later but man...that's hard to pull off. Think about it....not every line man is a great down field blocker....pass protector...or run blocker. Some can do one very well....two very well maybe....but it's rare if the player is great at all three....

    JMO....Frostbite
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  7. #17
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    So what are we going for??? A line like the Dolphins had in the 70s.....give the ball to Czonka and block type game telling other teams stop us from running if you can?? Or are we looking for pocket protection blockers or the right combination of both?? I tend to think the later but man...that's hard to pull off. Think about it....not every line man is a great down field blocker....pass protector...or run blocker. Some can do one very well....two very well maybe....but it's rare if the player is great at all three....

    JMO....Frostbite
    of course not, but they also all can't play below average, and where theres weakness, give help.
    the right side of the line coming into the year we knew might be an issue, but mckinney has got to step it up by now.
    he's been in the league long enough and got his big payday that every speed rusher he faces should not be blowing by him.
    obviously there has been communication problems too cuz when teams have blitzed it's rare we do any kinda job picking one up, which if you look around the league does happen.
    some of it is on the personel people too cuz if hicks and cook are not capable blockers they had money and bodies they could have brought in to address that.


    the positive thing is they did improve this week.
    everybody was talking about how great green bays defense is but you at least gotta like the stats we racked up and the big plays we were able to hit.
    what we gotta stop is the pentalty and sacks that kill drives once we get in the other teams end.
    having chester back and williamson back, and getting rice more involved and seeing the atlethicism of shiancoe has to excite people about the prospects of the offense.
    but we gotta protect better and tavaris has got to play and prove he is the future.
    i dont think it's any coincidence that our line played better and play action worked well and guys were all of a sudden busting open.
    the problem is the line didn't give us that in the first 3 games which yes is only a part of the problem, but probably the most important part.
    LET THAT WHICH DOES NOT MATTER, TRULY SLIDE

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "Frostbite" wrote:
    So what are we going for??? A line like the Dolphins had in the 70s.....give the ball to Czonka and block type game telling other teams stop us from running if you can?? Or are we looking for pocket protection blockers or the right combination of both?? I tend to think the later but man...that's hard to pull off. Think about it....not every line man is a great down field blocker....pass protector...or run blocker. Some can do one very well....two very well maybe....but it's rare if the player is great at all three....

    JMO....Frostbite
    of course not, but they also all can't play below average, and where theres weakness, give help.
    the right side of the line coming into the year we knew might be an issue, but mckinney has got to step it up by now.
    he's been in the league long enough and got his big payday that every speed rusher he faces should not be blowing by him.
    obviously there has been communication problems too cuz when teams have blitzed it's rare we do any kinda job picking one up, which if you look around the league does happen.
    some of it is on the personel people too cuz if hicks and cook are not capable blockers they had money and bodies they could have brought in to address that.


    the positive thing is they did improve this week.
    everybody was talking about how great green bays defense is but you at least gotta like the stats we racked up and the big plays we were able to hit.
    what we gotta stop is the pentalty and sacks that kill drives once we get in the other teams end.
    having chester back and williamson back, and getting rice more involved and seeing the atlethicism of shiancoe has to excite people about the prospects of the offense.
    but we gotta protect better and tavaris has got to play and prove he is the future.
    i dont think it's any coincidence that our line played better and play action worked well and guys were all of a sudden busting open.
    the problem is the line didn't give us that in the first 3 games which yes is only a part of the problem, but probably the most important part.
    Two solid posts my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    "bigbadragz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    I'll give you that V, the OLINE is not our only problem.
    Ferguson has already dropped several passes.
    TJack gave that game to the Lions!
    Chester Taylor, Tony Richardson, and Williamson have missed games due to injury.
    Rice, Wade, and Shank have looked pretty good when given the oppurtunity, but the pressure and sacks have limited the opportunities...

    If it wasn't for Adrian and Mewelde making people miss, we'd probably have less than half our yardage so far.
    I like what both you and V have to say, but both of you also have to admit that although we have multiple problems all of them can be improved on in a very short time if the OL was performing better.

    Inexperienced QB's do perform well if they have two things in thier favor, a good running game (we have a great one) and a OL can protect them long enough for them to make the correct reads in the passing game.
    Our guys, unfortunately aren't doing the later.

    If the OL doesn't give the QB time to read the Defense (after the snap) then the young Jedi will suck, the running game will be degraded and our backs will start getting hurt.
    2 out of those 3 have already happened.


    TJ started getting pressure and he threw the ball around in the Lions game.
    Thats bad but to be expected and we already have had 1 FB and 1 RB on the pine because of injury.
    All very bad indicators that can be directly traced back to bad OL play my friends.
    dead on marrdro, and exactly my points.
    to say that we dont have the talent at the skill positions is ignoring the fact that we can't know that if they dont get the oppurtunity due to poor line play.
    V continues to say i'm ignoring his points, but when you make a broad claim like we dont have the skill position players when they can't even get there hands on the ball cuz of too much pressure, it's ignoring the main problem.


    now this week they looked the best they have in pass blocking this year. there was still decent pressure but the line gave holcomb good protection on many more plays than i've seen all year.
    which showed in our production stat wise.

    that's why you were able to see the skills of a sidney rice, shiancoe, williamson.
    problem is holcomb is not, and will never be the answer.
    he's a stop gap, till your starter gets back, nothing more.
    if tjack was healthy enough to dress and step in if something happened to holcomb, i'm not following why he wouldnt just start.
    if that's farve he's in there.
    if childress is gonna start backpedalling after he put all his eggs in tjacks basket, than he will not last very long as our head coach.


    my point overall is, there is no problem with our skill positions.
    running back, wr, and te have talent there.
    obviously there is still a question at qb but thats why tjack has to play to prove if he is the answer.
    thats gonna be on childress.
    but the o-line has to play more like they did this past week if they are gonna give our skill players any chance of proving their worth.
    so if you can't see that point, than i am wasting my words on you V.
    Let me quote my last post:

    "'Crap' from V? I simply made a sound argument on how there are other ways to beat the blitz, but we don't have the talent to do it. Clearly my words have been wasted on you.

    There are a plethora of examples, the Cowboys last year and the Texans this year to name two, of teams had solved the problem of QB pressure simply by putting in a better QB in there.

    The OL has had trouble pass blocking. Holcomb has been hesitant in the pocket. Jackson made some bad decisions two games ago. Those are all facts. If you want to single out the OL as the offense's only problem, fine. IMO, there are other problems that exist.

    We can choose to try and pick up the blitz, or we can choose to beat the blitz, which is what the WCO calles for (Favre, McNabb, and Elway come to mind). However, right now, with an underperforming OL, and a lack of talent at the skill positions, we can't do either well. I don't know how that does not make sense to you. "

    Now, you have come back and said that the OL was better, but Holcomb wasn't good enough to get the job done. How is that any different from what I said? I said all along that Holcomb was the main problem, and that our skill positions aren't dangerous enough for other teams to stop blitzing. Even with the nice day that Wade and Rice had, GB never stopped blitzing. Even when Holcomb had all day to throw, there were times were he missed the mark. Eventually, we need a QB who will expose a blitzing defense. I hope TJ is that guy, but he has not yet proven that he can do that either.

    Stop being stubborn. Realize that you basically agreed with my last post.
    A week ago you were saying OL was the problem. Now you are saying the problem is part OL and part QB. Hmmm.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  10. #20
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Minnesota Vikings' high-priced offensive line still a work in progress.

    It's not JUST our offensive line....It's
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