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  1. #11
    Vikes_King's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    idk if i'm ready to say the guy could be a HC, maybe down the road yes.
    I do like what he's done with our team so far, but the reason Tomlin was snagged so quickly was because of his relationship with the players & the media.
    He's a very charismatic person and the Steelers recognized that.



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  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    I wonder if a Frazier coached team with as much talent as a Tomlin coached team would loose to the Jets


    Hmmm, wonder what the Tomlin crotch sniffers would vote for on a poll........

    Bad coaching/scheme or players not executing?
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  3. #13
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    "mblack76" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    "mblack76" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    If you look at the performance of Mike Tomlin and Leslie Frazier (sp?) they look pretty similar.
    Frazier arguably has a better pedigree (IMO) as he has more experience and last worked for Tony Dungy on with a great defense in Indy.
    So why all the love for Tomlin AND the plum head coaching job but not much talk about Frazier?
    Personally I think the guy is very cool and confident and is doing his best with the same personel deficiencies that Tomlin had.


    Am I wrong, do you guys think Frazier is on the road to becoming a head coach?
    By default..
    - People tend to associate success to a front runner/ pace setter (the Vikings new D was set by Tomlin)
    - People would identify with someone who they can reach/ talk to (Tomlin was vibrant and an ever present communicator)

    On another note, I am a bit worried about the slow or should I say no improvement on out pass defense.
    We still are struggling with generating a pass rush.
    Kevin Williams is arguably the best DT in football and with big Pat next to him you would think they could scheme some plays to cut KW loose more often.

    I love the promise of Edwards and Robison, they remind me of young Millard/Doleman bookends.
    Call me silly but I am thinking maybe we should play Robison and Edwards instead. Can someone help explain why they dont get much action?
    Robison and Edwards instead of what - the Williams boys?
    They play different positions.

    I'm confused.

    =Z=

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  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "mblack76" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    "mblack76" wrote:
    "Boyum" wrote:
    If you look at the performance of Mike Tomlin and Leslie Frazier (sp?) they look pretty similar.
    Frazier arguably has a better pedigree (IMO) as he has more experience and last worked for Tony Dungy on with a great defense in Indy.
    So why all the love for Tomlin AND the plum head coaching job but not much talk about Frazier?
    Personally I think the guy is very cool and confident and is doing his best with the same personel deficiencies that Tomlin had.


    Am I wrong, do you guys think Frazier is on the road to becoming a head coach?
    By default..
    - People tend to associate success to a front runner/ pace setter (the Vikings new D was set by Tomlin)
    - People would identify with someone who they can reach/ talk to (Tomlin was vibrant and an ever present communicator)

    On another note, I am a bit worried about the slow or should I say no improvement on out pass defense.
    We still are struggling with generating a pass rush.
    Kevin Williams is arguably the best DT in football and with big Pat next to him you would think they could scheme some plays to cut KW loose more often.

    I love the promise of Edwards and Robison, they remind me of young Millard/Doleman bookends.
    Call me silly but I am thinking maybe we should play Robison and Edwards instead. Can someone help explain why they dont get much action?
    Robison and Edwards instead of what - the Williams boys?
    They play different positions.

    I'm confused.

    =Z=
    Or the just the comment about them not getting much action.

    :

    Edwards has been starting every game this year and Robison has the most or tied for the most sacks on the team.


    Left me scratching my bald head as well.
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  5. #15
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    With the players we have on defense i feel as though we should be dominating the line of scrimmage and other teams offenses..

    statistically we're way worse than we were with Tomlin.. So i can't really see the debate or argument for Frazier.. he's not doing a "bad" job but def. not as good as Tomlin.

    I do think Frazier should blitz more, bc it's obvious, when we blitz on a consistent basis, our defense plays better than sitting back in that pathetic zone and letting qb's pick us apart.


    Especially with no pass rush

  6. #16
    AngloVike's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    The interesting thing will be to see how Frazier handles next season - assuming he is still with us and doesn't get hired away.
    It would have been good to see how Tomlin handled the second year here if we had played the way we had so far. I suspect that many would have been shouting how he had not improved the pass rush/coverage after last year.

    If Frazier does stay and can improve the pass coverage whilst keeping the rush defence at the same level or better - thereby improving the overall ranking - then I'd have to say he was a better DC than Tomlin. If we again are good against the rush but not the pass then I'd have him at the same level as Tomlin
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  7. #17
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    We haven't had a dominant defense since the days of Floyd Peters and Tony Dungy. Since then we have either been good against the pass or the rush, but never really effective against both.

    IMHO the defensive lines and the secondary have been marginal at best for the last 12 or so seasons with possibly a few exceptions.

  8. #18
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    I'm no expert but I do think Frazier could be a HC.......the Vikings let the real coaches go....Dungy, Billick & Tomlin and kept the wrong man.....hope they don't do teh same with Frazier.....

    Is it jsut me or does any one else think the Vikes need an upgrade at DE in order to improve the pass defense??

  9. #19
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    With the players we have on defense i feel as though we should be dominating the line of scrimmage and other teams offenses..

    statistically we're way worse than we were with Tomlin.. So i can't really see the debate or argument for Frazier.. he's not doing a "bad" job but def. not as good as Tomlin.

    I do think Frazier should blitz more, bc it's obvious, when we blitz on a consistent basis, our defense plays better than sitting back in that pathetic zone and letting qb's pick us apart.


    Especially with no pass rush



    Yes....We are being forced into having to blitz much more because we can't get to the QB on passing plays with our front 4. Face it....these players are great against the run because they sit on the line, use there bulk, and just wait for the runner to come to them in the creases. They have a much harder time getting after a mobile QB or colapsing the pocket. Green Bay showed you exactly what I am talking about by running Grant around the ends for big gains instead of trying to open up the middle running lanes. It was obvious that our front four guys were having a heck of moving outside to make plays, which caused our LBs and Safties to have to make them. San Diego never figured that out against us....They didn't try LT around the corners much in that game.

    The New York Giants have a pretty good RB and blockers too. The Giant Coaches are already looking at film and will attack us with the run aimed at the edges too until we can stop it. We have to get some pressure this week on Eli manning, a much better and more mobile QB than Culled Pepper is, if we are to have any chance Sunday in NY.

    JMHO.


    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  10. #20
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    Re: Mike Tomlin vs Leslie Frazier

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    With the players we have on defense i feel as though we should be dominating the line of scrimmage and other teams offenses..

    statistically we're way worse than we were with Tomlin.. So i can't really see the debate or argument for Frazier.. he's not doing a "bad" job but def. not as good as Tomlin.

    I do think Frazier should blitz more, bc it's obvious, when we blitz on a consistent basis, our defense plays better than sitting back in that pathetic zone and letting qb's pick us apart.


    Especially with no pass rush



    Yes....We are being forced into having to blitz much more because we can't get to the QB on passing plays with our front 4. Face it....these players are great against the run because they sit on the line, use there bulk, and just wait for the runner to come to them in the creases. They have a much harder time getting after a mobile QB or colapsing the pocket. Green Bay showed you exactly what I am talking about by running Grant around the ends for big gains instead of trying to open up the middle running lanes. It was obvious that our front four guys were having a heck of moving outside to make plays, which caused our LBs and Safties to have to make them. San Diego never figured that out against us....They didn't try LT around the corners much in that game.

    The New York Giants have a pretty good RB and blockers too. The Giant Coaches are already looking at film and will attack us with the run aimed at the edges too until we can stop it. We have to get some pressure this week on Eli manning, a much better and more mobile QB than Culled Pepper is, if we are to have any chance Sunday in NY.

    JMHO.


    Cheers!
    he's also easily unnerved in the pocket when things arnt going his way, thats why its absolutely necesary that we get pressure on him early and keep him feeling uncomfortable throughout the game.
    If we can get an early FG or TD lead and keep it up at that pace.. that could be enough to win it.

    Make Eli try too hard, he's not Payton


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