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  1. #101
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "JeffSeimon" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44559.msg771802#msg771802 date=1209500470]
    [quote author=JeffSeimon link=topic=44559.msg771782#msg771782 date=1209498814]
    I would say Jacksons 8-4 record was due in part to Adrian Petersons success.
    Was Vince Young facing 8 in the box most of the time? If he was I would think his numbers would be way better than Tjacks.
    I personally think TJ has hope but am glad we have another young qb to challenge him.
    Teams face 8 and 9 man fronts all the time.

    Its really called a Zone Blitz which is designed to take away the running game as well as to force the QB to make a quick decision between throw, run or get sacked.

    Truth of the matter is that even without AD most teams would Zone Blitz us (as they did VY) to get the same result.
    TJack was getting single coverage to throw to most of the season.Safetys were not rolling into coverage,they were worried only about our rushing attack.
    One Dallas Cowboy fan put it best...He said "I hope the Vikes starting qb doesnt get hurt" WHY? "Because whoever is on the bench has got to be better."
    Jackson doesn't get any media love because he hasn't done anything to deserve it.
    You want accolades?
    WIN GAMES.
    What's that?
    He was 8-4 as a starter?
    Sure, but how many of those wins were due to the running attack and Defense, and how many did Tarvaris take over and win?
    Oh...all 8 were because of someone else?

    Get my point?

    Caine
    Yeah he was 8-4 as the starter.... and it was his first season starting... what where Bollinger and Holcombs record when he wasnt in?? and they where suppose to be the vets...

    And his job wasnt to take over and win games, it was to help the team win, just like everyone else's job on the team...

    Get my point?

    Oh, I got yours...misguided as it may be.
    It appears, however, that you completely missed mine.

    If a player is going to get accolades, he has to seperate himself from the pack.
    He has to be better.
    What has Tarvaris done that would indicate he has seperated himslef or that he is better?

    Nothing.

    In fact, if you take off the purple tinted glasses and really LOOK at what he did last season you'll soon come to realize that in many cases he did more to hurt us than to help us.
    Even excluding the obvious inference to the Detroit debacle.

    He had flashes here and there, but he completely lacked consistancy.
    And trying to justify his continuation as the starter by pointing to Holcomb and Bollinger falls completely flat.
    The REAL question should be "Why didn't we bring in better talent at QB"?

    So don't confuse potential with ability.
    Jackson has all the potential in the world, but until he puts the pieces together and actually starts performing, no one - especially the media - is going to start singing his praises.
    You'll know when that happens because the Jackson fans here will stop having to make excuses for his play....hasn't happened yet.

    Caine


    [/quote]


    Ok.... yeah i agree Tjack was inconsistent... but the fact is its a team game... you gotta look at it from a team standpoint not just Tjack.... was the line consistent?? NO! were the wide outs consistent?? NO!!

    How ever saying he hurt us more than he helped us, i think is BS... when he played we won double the times we lost
    and thats a fact... and how many games was he even given a chance to take over the game?? Not many.. but late in the Redskins game he looked good when we spread the field, in the Denver game he looked good when we needed some points... But he wasnt given the chance to take over many games.. and i can see y with his first year starting.. but now with whats going to be his second year starting i think the coaches will open it up a little more and that can only help Tjack in the offense
    [/quote]

    Really good post DD, there is a whole puzzle peice here. Inconsistent offensive units + a young QB who is inconsistent but expected IMO especailly considering the other units were inconsistent = a lack of production. IMO the QB is always the target of the most scrutiny and always will. There is plenty of blaim to go around the table and this is what most people fail to realize, especailly commentators like Rich Eisen and whoever else who fails to mention other offensive issues that can't be corrected by Tarvaris.

  2. #102
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:

    Jackson doesn't get any media love because he hasn't done anything to deserve it.
    You want accolades?
    WIN GAMES.
    What's that?
    He was 8-4 as a starter?
    Sure, but how many of those wins were due to the running attack and Defense, and how many did Tarvaris take over and win?
    Oh...all 8 were because of someone else?

    Get my point?

    Caine
    Yeah he was 8-4 as the starter.... and it was his first season starting... what where Bollinger and Holcombs record when he wasnt in?? and they where suppose to be the vets...

    And his job wasnt to take over and win games, it was to help the team win, just like everyone else's job on the team...

    Get my point?

    Oh, I got yours...misguided as it may be.
    It appears, however, that you completely missed mine.

    If a player is going to get accolades, he has to seperate himself from the pack.
    He has to be better.
    What has Tarvaris done that would indicate he has seperated himslef or that he is better?

    Nothing.

    In fact, if you take off the purple tinted glasses and really LOOK at what he did last season you'll soon come to realize that in many cases he did more to hurt us than to help us.
    Even excluding the obvious inference to the Detroit debacle.

    He had flashes here and there, but he completely lacked consistancy.
    And trying to justify his continuation as the starter by pointing to Holcomb and Bollinger falls completely flat.
    The REAL question should be "Why didn't we bring in better talent at QB"?

    So don't confuse potential with ability.
    Jackson has all the potential in the world, but until he puts the pieces together and actually starts performing, no one - especially the media - is going to start singing his praises.
    You'll know when that happens because the Jackson fans here will stop having to make excuses for his play....hasn't happened yet.

    Caine


    Ok.... yeah i agree Tjack was inconsistent... but the fact is its a team game... you gotta look at it from a team standpoint not just Tjack.... was the line consistent?? NO! were the wide outs consistent?? NO!!

    How ever saying he hurt us more than he helped us, i think is BS... when he played we won double the times we lost
    and thats a fact... and how many games was he even given a chance to take over the game?? Not many.. but late in the Redskins game he looked good when we spread the field, in the Denver game he looked good when we needed some points... But he wasnt given the chance to take over many games.. and i can see y with his first year starting.. but now with whats going to be his second year starting i think the coaches will open it up a little more and that can only help Tjack in the offense
    Yup...he looked good in a couple games.
    But he looked pretty bad in a few as well.

    The original statement was that Jackson gets no "love".
    I pointed out the obvious reason why, and now we've turned it into an indictment of Jackson as a QB.


    The truth is that Tarvaris's play during the past season was sporadic - he had a couple of good games (The second Detroit game and the San Fran games in particular), a couple of real stinkers (The first Detroit game, the Dallas game, the second Chicago game), and a whole bunch where he sort of did...not much.


    Versus Chicago the first time, he only completed 9-23 for 1 TD, with a 5.9 yd average.
    AP and the Defense won that one.

    Versus San Diego he was 6-12 with a 5.3 YPA.
    AP again took that one over.

    Versus Oakland he was a lot more productive with regards to passing completions, attempts, and yards...but it was Chester Taylor who ran all over the Raiders.

    Versus the Giants, I think everyone will agree that the Defense walked away with that one.

    Versus San Fran...he managed his part well...even if he wasn't real points productive.

    Bottom line, while I get that this is a "Team" game, and it's supposed to be a "Team" effort, the Quarterback is supposed to LEAD the team.
    And, honestly, to this point I haven't seen a lot of that.

    Now, if he plays like the 4th quarter of the Bronco's game this coming season, I'll be in awe.
    If he steps up and LEADS, I'll be applauding.
    But nothing that has happened to this point leads me to believe with any sense of certainty that this will occur.
    And, since our window of opportunity with this defense isn't getting any bigger (Pat and Antoine aren't getting younger), we are at a nexus point.
    Our Offense is closing the gap - on a talent scale - with our Defense.
    If we're going to hit the post season firing on all cylinders, it has to be soon.

    What I DON'T want is to be Chicago - they were a QB away from being Superbowl champions 2 years ago.
    Therefore, I want a QB that will perform under pressure, will take the game on his shoulders, and will LEAD the offense.

    Now, can Tarvaris be "That Guy"?
    It's entirely possible...but it's not certain.
    So, before he gets the media "love", he has to step his game up a few notches.
    I certainly hope he does - but I'm not convinced of it.

    Of course, we'll have a much better idea of where he's at in September, won't we.

    Ironically, the opener versus the Peckers is on my Birthday...I can't think of a better present than for the Vikes to DESTROY Green Bay, in Lameblow, on Monday night.

    Caine

  3. #103
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    I understand he's unproven, I never said he wasn't. However, the prevailing theme in the media is that the Vikings are a QB away from being a contender and should scrap the Tavaris Jackson plan immediately. While Vince Young, virtually the same player, unproven as well, is the 'next big thing'. Media perception sucks...it screws with people's opinions and thats not cool. I'm not saying Jackson deserves the Vince Young treatment necessarily, or that Young deserves the Tavaris Jackson treatment...however, I wish the media would portray both as near equals...both as unproven QBs who are young. That is the word that should be stressed...young QBs. These guys should be expected to screw up...I mean Brett Favre has 4 interception games and he was in the league for nearly twenty years...and to this day, to the media, he is infallible. Look, I just don't think the media is giving this guy a fair shake...not that he should be proclaimed as great, but they need to understand he's young, and for young QBs every game is a learning process.

    A.G s HOTTEST NEW RAP CD: AUDIO GHOST & MAIN EVENT drop THE SEED: I made tha beats www.myspace.com/audioghost2006

  4. #104
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "audioghost" wrote:
    I understand he's unproven, I never said he wasn't. However, the prevailing theme in the media is that the Vikings are a QB away from being a contender and should scrap the Tavaris Jackson plan immediately. While Vince Young, virtually the same player, unproven as well, is the 'next big thing'. Media perception sucks...it screws with people's opinions and thats not cool. I'm not saying Jackson deserves the Vince Young treatment necessarily, or that Young deserves the Tavaris Jackson treatment...however, I wish the media would portray both as near equals...both as unproven QBs who are young. That is the word that should be stressed...young QBs. These guys should be expected to screw up...I mean Brett Favre has 4 interception games and he was in the league for nearly twenty years...and to this day, to the media, he is infallible. Look, I just don't think the media is giving this guy a fair shake...not that he should be proclaimed as great, but they need to understand he's young, and for young QBs every game is a learning process.
    I agree with your point AG....although I would say that Young deserves more respect than TJ at this point.
    He played for a major University and....Did you watch his BSC championship performance???
    Nothing short of amazing.
    Obviously this doesn't translate into guaranteed NFL sucess but it was impressive to say the least.

    I still have moderate confidence in TJ...He's done pretty well IMO considering his background.
    He has lived up to his expectations so far, and that's all we can ask.
    If he flops next year, it's probably time to find a solid replacement.
    I'm not totally convinced Booty is the guy, although he probably deserves his chance too.


    With that said, I don't want to blow a SB run on giving young, unproven QBs "chances".

  5. #105
    cogitans is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "singersp" wrote:
    MN Vikings Tarvaris Jackson

    [youtube=425,350]AtucpbjWMJY&feature=related[/youtube]
    Let's have the season now.

    My favorite one is the last one. I think I just might get myself a Rice jersey next.

    Thanks to PPE for the sig.

  6. #106
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "cogitans" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    MN Vikings Tarvaris Jackson

    [youtube=425,350]AtucpbjWMJY&feature=related[/youtube]
    Let's have the season now.

    My favorite one is the last one. I think I just might get myself a Rice jersey next.
    I posted that one so that hopefully the posters that said he has happy feet, no poise or patience in the pocket, bails early & can't run might pick up on that portion of it. In those clips he shows his poise & patience & doesn't bail until the pocket collapses around him & he certainly shows he can run when needed.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #107
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    In spite of Tarvaris' play, against a team starting their 3rd QB, just barely.
    That's quite an interesting view of this:

    With 4 minutes left, Tarvaris Jackson had the Vikings ahead by TWO fricken TOUCHDOWNS.

    How is he possibly to blame for Dwight Smith letting Devin Hester run right by him?
    I believe he was talking about the other Chicago game in week 15, in which TJ threw 3 interceptions and fumbled the ball away once.
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29418&displayPage=tab_gamecente r&season=2007&week=REG15

    Just looked over the GameBook and Play-By-Play for that one.
    Sure was a stinker - but looks to me like Tarvaris stuck in there and rallied his team to a victory, even after being roughed up and taken out of the game for a bit.
    Tarvaris had nothing to do with the team rallying to win that game, AP and the defense did.
    Tarvaris put us in a hole and looked lost all game.
    He threw while jumping, off his back foot and while being hit.
    Against Washington it was more of the same.
    I really hope that Tarvaris improves, and I think he will, but until he decides to play well in big games and show any kind of consistency he will not be respected in this league, and rightfully so.
    Did AD or the defense throw a TD pass to Robert Ferguson?

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  8. #108
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    MN Vikings Tarvaris Jackson

    [youtube=425,350]AtucpbjWMJY&feature=related[/youtube]
    If highlight videos told the real picure then Troy Wililamson would be a superstar.
    I challenge you to find some highlight videos of Troy Williamson in his pro career.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #109
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    [quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=44559.msg772215#msg772215 date=1209561286]
    In spite of Tarvaris' play, against a team starting their 3rd QB, just barely.
    That's quite an interesting view of this:

    With 4 minutes left, Tarvaris Jackson had the Vikings ahead by TWO fricken TOUCHDOWNS.

    How is he possibly to blame for Dwight Smith letting Devin Hester run right by him?
    I believe he was talking about the other Chicago game in week 15, in which TJ threw 3 interceptions and fumbled the ball away once.
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29418&displayPage=tab_gamecente r&season=2007&week=REG15

    Just looked over the GameBook and Play-By-Play for that one.
    Sure was a stinker - but looks to me like Tarvaris stuck in there and rallied his team to a victory, even after being roughed up and taken out of the game for a bit.
    Tarvaris had nothing to do with the team rallying to win that game, AP and the defense did.
    Tarvaris put us in a hole and looked lost all game.
    He threw while jumping, off his back foot and while being hit.
    Against Washington it was more of the same.
    I really hope that Tarvaris improves, and I think he will, but until he decides to play well in big games and show any kind of consistency he will not be respected in this league, and rightfully so.
    Did AD or the defense throw a TD pass to Robert Ferguson?

    =Z=
    [/quote]

    Tavaris threw zero TD passes in that game. There was a long 71 yard strike that he did throw to Ferguson, but it was not a TD. Even with that pass, he had a mediocre game. It's pretty clear that we won that game because of our defense and AD. TJ's main job in our offense is to limit turnovers, and he did a horrible job of that in this game. If you want to argue that TJ is unfairly hated, this game is not a good example for you to use.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  10. #110
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: The media hates Jackson, and you're soaking it all in...!

    "V" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=Zeus link=topic=44559.msg772244#msg772244 date=1209564871]
    [quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=44559.msg772215#msg772215 date=1209561286]
    In spite of Tarvaris' play, against a team starting their 3rd QB, just barely.
    That's quite an interesting view of this:

    With 4 minutes left, Tarvaris Jackson had the Vikings ahead by TWO fricken TOUCHDOWNS.

    How is he possibly to blame for Dwight Smith letting Devin Hester run right by him?
    I believe he was talking about the other Chicago game in week 15, in which TJ threw 3 interceptions and fumbled the ball away once.
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29418&displayPage=tab_gamecente r&season=2007&week=REG15

    Just looked over the GameBook and Play-By-Play for that one.
    Sure was a stinker - but looks to me like Tarvaris stuck in there and rallied his team to a victory, even after being roughed up and taken out of the game for a bit.
    Tarvaris had nothing to do with the team rallying to win that game, AP and the defense did.
    Tarvaris put us in a hole and looked lost all game.
    He threw while jumping, off his back foot and while being hit.
    Against Washington it was more of the same.
    I really hope that Tarvaris improves, and I think he will, but until he decides to play well in big games and show any kind of consistency he will not be respected in this league, and rightfully so.
    Did AD or the defense throw a TD pass to Robert Ferguson?
    [/quote]

    Tavaris threw zero TD passes in that game. There was a long 71 yard strike that he did throw to Ferguson, but it was not a TD. Even with that pass, he had a mediocre game. It's pretty clear that we won that game because of our defense and AD. TJ's main job in our offense is to limit turnovers, and he did a horrible job of that in this game. If you want to argue that TJ is unfairly hated, this game is not a good example for you to use.[/quote]

    Sorry - mis-remembered the playbook.

    I'm not arguing anything about Tarvaris being unfairly hated.
    I'm just taking issue with the contention that the Vikings won that game "in spite" of him.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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