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  1. #51
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    I agree.

    My point was that, perhaps, the Vikings have a poor scouting staff for quarterbacks if they keep bringing in the same type of guys only to watch them miss the target.
    Been that way for years. Sometimes they can't see what's right under their nose, eg. Gannon, Brad Johnson early on, and maybe even Frerotte the first time they had him.

  2. #52
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battleaxe4cheese View Post
    So....what about Jamarcus Russell? How about Troy Williamson? What was his pick in the draft?
    Christian Ponder picked#12 overall. Sometimes draft position means jack sh*t.
    Ok fine, I'll use something else as a measuring stick then. Let's start with level of play in college.

    The existence of first round busts does not somehow mean late round/undrafted guys are good. Sure there are diamonds in the rough, but chances are, they were very good college players. Look at Tom Brady. He was awesome at Michigan, but dropped to the 6th round. And the great QBs who went undrafted, like Moon and Warner, were great in other leagues. What did MBT do in college? Jack shit, to borrow your term. By the way, JaMarcus Russell won a national championship at LSU and tripled MBT's entire college stat line in his senior year alone.

    How about perceived value by other teams?

    Notice how there's no trade talk about MBT? Like I said, the Packers gave up a first rounder for Favre at a time where the running game was paramount.



    Perhaps if Favre played in the USFL or Arena League and had even less college success than experience there'd be a comparison to be made. But even then it would only be because Favre didn't enter the 1992 season as #1 on the Green Bay depth chart, wore #4 and had a strong arm.

    Edit: Jamarcus Russell did not win a national title. They won the Sugar Bowl that year. The following season Matt Flynn led the Tigers to a BCS Title.
    Last edited by Mr Anderson; 09-02-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  3. #53
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowa View Post
    Nobody had heard of Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, etc, etc. Just sayin', it can happen, they just got lucky and somebody gave them a chance.
    Everyone had heard about Warren Moon. He was a college stud QB at Washington whom the NFL deemed wouldn't fit into their model. Then he went to the CFL and was a superstar. Trust me, anyone who followed football knew who Warren Moon was.
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  4. #54
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    People... is this how far we have fallen. We are arguing over what piece of shit looks the most appetizing. I want us to draft a QB with a resume. Our next QB needs to be a winner. I rather we spend 4 years trying to build up a guy that the scouts love... the public love... and we are crazy about than... to continue to take these shot in the dark chances at finding a QB.

    Sometimes you have to stop outsmarting yourself and take the obvious choices.
    The stars still have to line up for you. I doubt Ponder and the Vikings will do so badly that they have another top 5 draft pick. And then you have to have a graduating class that has that talented QB you need. Was there really a single QB in this past draft that has franchise QB written all over him? And then look at all the "studs" that have failed. I'm sure Joe Montana (drafted at the end of the 3rd round) wasn't projected as a future superstar QB.
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  5. #55
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
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    I agree with the original poster, at least in this sense. I think Ponder = Cassel, or rather, Cassel doesn't really bring anything more to the table than CP does. At least MBT does have an arm, and the willingness to throw the ball into harms way with enough confidence to believe he can fit it into a small window. He'll still do some boneheaded things like the pick he threw the other night, but he'll also complete those 20 yard clotheslines like he did on that final drive. You aren't likely to throw a rookie QB to the lions right away, and you already know what Cassel can't do. Might as well let MBT have an extended crack with pros surrounding him (instead of 3rd stringers) while the rook learns, and if MBT shows something, great.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplepat View Post
    I agree with the original poster, at least in this sense. I think Ponder = Cassel, or rather, Cassel doesn't really bring anything more to the table than CP does.
    I think Cassel is slightly above Ponder in that he's more accurate downfield on his longer passes than Ponder is. Ponder has the better average on the 5 yard type passes. Both have thrown some terrible passes. We only have this preseason to go by, but Cassel averaged 14.4 yds per completion to Ponders 8.0 & IMO, Cassel is better at hitting a moving receiver.

    At the end of the day, I don't think any one of the 3 will win us a SB. If starting Cassel or MBT over Ponder means they'll hang onto Ponder in 2014 to give him another chance, then I'd rather let Ponder play this year, rather than next & let it be his deciding fate.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    I think Cassel is slightly above Ponder in that he's more accurate downfield on his longer passes than Ponder is. Ponder has the better average on the 5 yard type passes. Both have thrown some terrible passes. We only have this preseason to go by, but Cassel averaged 14.4 yds per completion to Ponders 8.0 & IMO, Cassel is better at hitting a moving receiver.
    This.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #58
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    People... is this how far we have fallen. We are arguing over what piece of shit looks the most appetizing. I want us to draft a QB with a resume. Ponder did not have one. His claim to fame was that his Junior year he completed 68% of his throws and has 2 Masters degrees. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Our next QB needs to be a winner. I rather we spend 4 years trying to build up a guy that the scouts love... the public love... and we are crazy about than... to continue to take these shot in the dark chances at finding a QB.

    Sometimes you have to stop outsmarting yourself and take the obvious choices.
    Ok, so, here's the 2011 Scout.com QB rankings...

    Pos Pos
    Rank Rating Name Yr Ht/Wt/40 College Home
    QB 1 Cam Newton JR 6-5/248/- Auburn Atlanta, GA
    QB 2 Blaine Gabbert JR 6-4/234/- Missouri Ballwin, MO
    QB 3 Jake Locker SR 6-3/231/- Washington Ferndale, WA
    QB 4 Ryan Mallett JR 6-7/253/- Arkansas Texarkana, TX
    QB 5 Christian Ponder SR 6-2/229/- Florida State Colleyville, TX
    QB 6 Andy Dalton SR 6-2/215/- TCU Katy, TX
    QB 7 Colin Kaepernick SR 6-5/233/- Nevada Turlock, CA
    QB 8 Ricky Stanzi SR 6-4/223/- Iowa Mentor, OH
    QB 9 Tyrod Taylor SR 6-1/217/- Virginia Tech Hampton, VA
    QB 10 Greg McElroy SR 6-2/220/- Alabama Southlake, TX
    QB 11 Pat Devlin SR 6-3/225/- Delaware Exton, PA
    QB 12 T.J. Yates SR 6-3/219/- North Carolina Marietta, GA
    QB 13 NR Josh Portis SR 6-3/211/- California of PA Woodland Hills, CA
    QB 14 NR Nathan Enderle SR 6-4/240/- Idaho North Platte, NE
    QB 15 NR Scott Tolzien SR 6-2/212/- Wisconsin Palatine, IL

    the link... Scout.com: 2011 NFL Draft QB Rankings

    so you can check out the 1 to 5 star rating. Have at it.
    Last edited by MaxVike; 09-02-2013 at 08:47 AM.

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  9. #59
    Minniman's Avatar
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    Pos Rank Rating Name Yr College Drafted (round and overall)
    QB 1 Cam Newton JR Auburn Round 1 #1
    QB 2 Blaine Gabbert JR Missouri Round 1 #10
    QB 3 Jake Locker SR Washington Round 1 #8
    QB 4 Ryan Mallett JR Arkansas Round 3 #74
    QB 5 Christian Ponder SR Florida State Round 1 #12
    QB 6 Andy Dalton SR TCU Round 2 #35
    QB 7 Colin Kaepernick SR Nevada Round 2 #36
    QB 8 Ricky Stanzi SR Iowa Round 5 #135
    QB 9 Tyrod Taylor SR Virginia Tech Round 6 #180
    QB 10 Greg McElroy SR Alabama Round 7 #208

    Ponder was the only quarterback without a five star rating drafted in the first round. If the Vikings had passed on Ponder in round one, they likely would have been able to draft him in the second round. If not, either Dalton or Kaepernick would have been available. Every other quarterback was drafted later than that, so they would have been available too.

    The Vikings reached to draft Ponder in the first round. They did pick up Kyle Rudolph in the second round though, so it did end up well enough.

    I thought the Vikings were looking at Locker, Dalton, and Mallett prior to the draft, but all pre-draft reports are just speculation. Mallett was selected by the Patriots in the third round with the extra pick they earned from the Randy Moss trade to the Vikings.

  10. #60
    Braddock's Avatar
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    This upcoming offseason should just be about getting this guy...

    Video: Louisville QB Teddy Bridgewater - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN
    Trying to bring rationale to an irrational site

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