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  1. #81
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    That quote says to me that Childress knows Matt Birk is able to take care of himself. He doesn't need to worry about Birk because he knows the guy will show up for mandatories ready to play.
    The problem is, this isn't about Birk. Its about the team, especially his team called the OL.
    Then you gotta throw in the work he and TJ aren't getting and I get upset.

    His role/function as a vet, starting center and team leader will be missed, voluntary or not.
    Again, these are grown fucking men! Do you turn into a totally unproductive fart at work when your boss, no not even your boss, your "really productive colleague" is on a week long business trip?
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #82
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    That quote says to me that Childress knows Matt Birk is able to take care of himself. He doesn't need to worry about Birk because he knows the guy will show up for mandatories ready to play.
    The problem is, this isn't about Birk. Its about the team, especially his team called the OL.
    Then you gotta throw in the work he and TJ aren't getting and I get upset.

    His role/function as a vet, starting center and team leader will be missed, voluntary or not.
    Again, these are grown fricken men! Do you turn into a totally unproductive fart at work when your boss, no not even your boss, your "really productive colleague" is on a week long business trip?
    Good analogy..... ;D

    The answer is no, but when the boss is gone it isn't business as usual.
    The backup boss does things different and always wants to mess the process up resulting in re-work on my part to get it the way he likes it and then have to re-work it again when the boss returns to get it back the way he likes it.



    Does the job get done?
    Yup, but it is still a pain in the ass.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #83
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    That quote says to me that Childress knows Matt Birk is able to take care of himself. He doesn't need to worry about Birk because he knows the guy will show up for mandatories ready to play.
    The problem is, this isn't about Birk. Its about the team, especially his team called the OL.
    Then you gotta throw in the work he and TJ aren't getting and I get upset.

    His role/function as a vet, starting center and team leader will be missed, voluntary or not.
    Again, these are grown fricken men! Do you turn into a totally unproductive fart at work when your boss, no not even your boss, your "really productive colleague" is on a week long business trip?
    Good analogy..... ;D

    The answer is no, but when the boss is gone it isn't business as usual.
    The backup boss does things different and always wants to mess the process up resulting in re-work on my part to get it the way he likes it and then have to re-work it again when the boss returns to get it back the way he likes it.



    Does the job get done?
    Yup, but it is still a pain in the ass.
    ;D
    Actually, in my analogy, The Boss would be Childress, who is there, and the assistant boss would be Bevel, who is also there.

    You are referring to the back-up colleague, who is just happy to practice with the first team.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  4. #84
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    That quote says to me that Childress knows Matt Birk is able to take care of himself. He doesn't need to worry about Birk because he knows the guy will show up for mandatories ready to play.
    The problem is, this isn't about Birk. Its about the team, especially his team called the OL.
    Then you gotta throw in the work he and TJ aren't getting and I get upset.

    His role/function as a vet, starting center and team leader will be missed, voluntary or not.
    Again, these are grown fricken men! Do you turn into a totally unproductive fart at work when your boss, no not even your boss, your "really productive colleague" is on a week long business trip?
    Good analogy..... ;D

    The answer is no, but when the boss is gone it isn't business as usual.
    The backup boss does things different and always wants to mess the process up resulting in re-work on my part to get it the way he likes it and then have to re-work it again when the boss returns to get it back the way he likes it.



    Does the job get done?
    Yup, but it is still a pain in the jiggly butt.
    ;D
    Actually, in my analogy, The Boss would be Childress, who is there, and the assistant boss would be Bevel, who is also there.

    You are referring to the back-up colleague, who is just happy to practice with the first team.
    Now instead of cracking me up, your making my head hurt.
    I concede the field my friend.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #85
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=44999.msg781005#msg781005 date=1211204391]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780999#msg780999 date=1211202960]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780993#msg780993 date=1211200460]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=44999.msg780685#msg780685 date=1211136018]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780679#msg780679 date=1211135878]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780602#msg780602 date=1211123495]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780578#msg780578 date=1211121321]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780551#msg780551 date=1211118552]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780548#msg780548 date=1211118344]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780541#msg780541 date=1211117944]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780540#msg780540 date=1211117804]
    Well, that certainly paid off didn't it
    LOL, probably should have done more film study followed by pratical application (i.e pratice).

    ;D

    ........Or a few more series in the preseason to put all of that study to practice.
    ;D
    I wonder if we might see a few more reps.
    Problem is that it is a "Damned if you do" "Damned if you don't" scenario.


    Reps are good, a injury isn't.

    :
    True enough, but what good is a healthy team with no continuity?

    You are a military man. What do you think the armed forces would be like if they just studied film and didn't train in harsh environments for fear of injuring key people in the squad?
    Don't get me wrong my friend.
    You know I am a "Just Do It" kindof guy.

    Only playing the devils advocate here.
    If he plays them an extra series or two and one of them gets hurt, then we will be saying, "What the hell was he playing them in a meaningless pre-season game", kindof stuff.

    Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    [/quote]

    That is why it is necessary to have experienced,quality,competent depth on the OL. We are just a knee injury away from a very bad situation. If we had been assembling depth and experience at the OL like I have been hoping for, if one guy does go down we would have a ready replacement to plug in if an injury occurs. Then it is just damned if you don't ;D
    [/quote]

    You & me both. We were gol 'darnit fortunate that there was no significant injury to McKinnie, Hutch or Birk last year. Our depth was gol 'darnit thin.
    [/quote]
    And yet the front office isn't trying to give the coaches more to work with via high draft picks or FA signings.

    Maybe they aren't as thin as us fans think.

    :
    [/quote]

    Just as I have been saying, they didn't need to. With the exception of a LOT, they can fill the depth with UDFA's and players who are being released by other teams. There is a thread right now that says they are doing just that.

    I also believe that there will be at least one, if not more, LOT's that were starters for a team that will be released during camp because they were beat out by one of those first round LOT's and that the team will go after them aggressively to back up Cook and Mckinney. I just wish they had done this 2 years ago.
    [/quote]

    I will agree that we may need another lineman to put in the mix. I'm not so sure it has to be an OT. Hicks is our only backup guard, and if we got a center, we would prevent Cook from changing positions if Birk gets injured.

    A backup OT that could play both sides would be huge. If Mckinney goes down he's in. If Cook goes down he's in. If Birk goes down, move Cook to C and he's in at RT again. I guess I just contradicted myself.

    I do question whether lack of depth is as big a problem as it was last year, even though we haven't made changes. Marcus Johnson played in 14 games last year and has 40 games in his career. Herrara also appeared in 14 games and has 66 games in career, with 49 starts. They are mediocre starters but adequate backups. Also, why does Chase Johnson get no love? He was a rookie last season and buried behind McKinnie on the depth chart. Why is he not believed to be a good backup?
    [/quote]
    I've been supporting him all offseason especially after the McKinnie incident.
    Were you been?


    ;D

    Very nice post by the way.
    [/quote]

    You may have been supporting him, but when McKinnie went down, Hicks got the call & not Johnson. Did they feel he was inadequate at that point in time?

    Like it has been said here many a time, it takes a long time to grasp that offensive scheme. My guess is he was still learning it & not ready to play.

    Mozes was injured so he missed the benefits of a 1 year learning period, so he'll be starting at square 1 this year along with the rookies. As with Johnson not be ready to play due to lack of experience, I don't think the rooks would be called upon this year either.

    Had we made the moves & brought players in two years ago, they'd be ready to go by now. Thus why I was pushing it. If there were OL-men cut when the 53 man rosters were due, the Vikings didn't pursue any of them other than the rookies, whom were later cut.
    [/quote]
    Mozes won't be starting from square one.
    He has had reps (albeit in practice) and has had the luxury of classroom environment.
    Just cause he didn't start any NFL games doesn't mean he hasn't learned anything.

    What moves would make you happy other than the ones they did make?

    Truth of the matter they have addressed the OL issues, at least until the McKinnie thing came up, but I believe just because they haven't brought in a Vet or drafted someone high, the rub will always be that they haven't done anything.

    Again, what moves?
    [/quote]

    They adressed some of the moves this year. My contention is they should have addressed them last year or in 2006 so those players would be ready to take the field this year.

    I can't recall his name, but there was a highly touted player released last year in favor of a rookie that the Vikings never sniffed at.

    The players they brought in this year need to be evaluated & if they make the roster will need a year or two to develop.
    [/quote]
    So your telling me the guys they brought in last year don't count as moves but the guys they brought in this year do?

    As to when they are/can be ready, Cook took the field last year. How much more ready can you be than that?

    Your not making sense.
    [/quote]

    The guys they brought in last year were UDFA's much like this year with the exception of when Cook was added. Yes Cook played last season, but he was drafted in 2006 also. He had almost year to learn before seeing significant playing time. He played pretty well in 2006 when the Chiller was running out of options & BJ was talking a beating. Cook's learning curve hasn't gone easy & he's made a lot of errors along the way.

    What I count as moves is either bringing in a good veteran FA or the someone during the draft. In 3 years, the only lineman they drafted was Cook & this year Sullivan, although Hicks was a draft trade casualty who hasn't panned out . Cook was a center when he was drafted as is Sullivan.

    Everyone else they brought in were toaster leavings after the draft. Were they brought in as trainging camp fodder or legitimate shots at making the team?

    IMO, the Vikings have done little if anything to seriously shore up the right side of the line in 3 years. Picking up draft levovers that no one else wanted isn't exactly my idea of actively pursuing a fix to the right side of the line or for backing up the left side. It's more like a shot in the dark hoping someone will pan out.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #86
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg781010#msg781010 date=1211204957]
    [quote author=V link=topic=44999.msg781005#msg781005 date=1211204391]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780999#msg780999 date=1211202960]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780993#msg780993 date=1211200460]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=44999.msg780685#msg780685 date=1211136018]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780679#msg780679 date=1211135878]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780602#msg780602 date=1211123495]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780578#msg780578 date=1211121321]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780551#msg780551 date=1211118552]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780548#msg780548 date=1211118344]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44999.msg780541#msg780541 date=1211117944]
    [quote author=UffDaVikes link=topic=44999.msg780540#msg780540 date=1211117804]
    Well, that certainly paid off didn't it
    LOL, probably should have done more film study followed by pratical application (i.e pratice).
    ;D

    ........Or a few more series in the preseason to put all of that study to practice.
    ;D
    I wonder if we might see a few more reps.
    Problem is that it is a "Damned if you do" "Damned if you don't" scenario.


    Reps are good, a injury isn't.
    :
    True enough, but what good is a healthy team with no continuity?

    You are a military man. What do you think the armed forces would be like if they just studied film and didn't train in harsh environments for fear of injuring key people in the squad?
    Don't get me wrong my friend.
    You know I am a "Just Do It" kindof guy.

    Only playing the devils advocate here.
    If he plays them an extra series or two and one of them gets hurt, then we will be saying, "What the hell was he playing them in a meaningless pre-season game", kindof stuff.

    Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    [/quote]

    That is why it is necessary to have experienced,quality,competent depth on the OL. We are just a knee injury away from a very bad situation. If we had been assembling depth and experience at the OL like I have been hoping for, if one guy does go down we would have a ready replacement to plug in if an injury occurs. Then it is just damned if you don't ;D
    [/quote]

    You & me both. We were gol 'darnit fortunate that there was no significant injury to McKinnie, Hutch or Birk last year. Our depth was gol 'darnit thin.
    [/quote]
    And yet the front office isn't trying to give the coaches more to work with via high draft picks or FA signings.

    Maybe they aren't as thin as us fans think.
    :
    [/quote]

    Just as I have been saying, they didn't need to. With the exception of a LOT, they can fill the depth with UDFA's and players who are being released by other teams. There is a thread right now that says they are doing just that.

    I also believe that there will be at least one, if not more, LOT's that were starters for a team that will be released during camp because they were beat out by one of those first round LOT's and that the team will go after them aggressively to back up Cook and Mckinney. I just wish they had done this 2 years ago.
    [/quote]

    I will agree that we may need another lineman to put in the mix. I'm not so sure it has to be an OT. Hicks is our only backup guard, and if we got a center, we would prevent Cook from changing positions if Birk gets injured.

    A backup OT that could play both sides would be huge. If Mckinney goes down he's in. If Cook goes down he's in. If Birk goes down, move Cook to C and he's in at RT again. I guess I just contradicted myself.

    I do question whether lack of depth is as big a problem as it was last year, even though we haven't made changes. Marcus Johnson played in 14 games last year and has 40 games in his career. Herrara also appeared in 14 games and has 66 games in career, with 49 starts. They are mediocre starters but adequate backups. Also, why does Chase Johnson get no love? He was a rookie last season and buried behind McKinnie on the depth chart. Why is he not believed to be a good backup?
    [/quote]
    I've been supporting him all offseason especially after the McKinnie incident.
    Were you been?

    ;D

    Very nice post by the way.
    [/quote]

    You may have been supporting him, but when McKinnie went down, Hicks got the call & not Johnson. Did they feel he was inadequate at that point in time?

    Like it has been said here many a time, it takes a long time to grasp that offensive scheme. My guess is he was still learning it & not ready to play.

    Mozes was injured so he missed the benefits of a 1 year learning period, so he'll be starting at square 1 this year along with the rookies. As with Johnson not be ready to play due to lack of experience, I don't think the rooks would be called upon this year either.

    Had we made the moves & brought players in two years ago, they'd be ready to go by now. Thus why I was pushing it. If there were OL-men cut when the 53 man rosters were due, the Vikings didn't pursue any of them other than the rookies, whom were later cut.
    [/quote]
    Mozes won't be starting from square one.
    He has had reps (albeit in practice) and has had the luxury of classroom environment.
    Just cause he didn't start any NFL games doesn't mean he hasn't learned anything.

    What moves would make you happy other than the ones they did make?

    Truth of the matter they have addressed the OL issues, at least until the McKinnie thing came up, but I believe just because they haven't brought in a Vet or drafted someone high, the rub will always be that they haven't done anything.

    Again, what moves?
    [/quote]

    They adressed some of the moves this year. My contention is they should have addressed them last year or in 2006 so those players would be ready to take the field this year.

    I can't recall his name, but there was a highly touted player released last year in favor of a rookie that the Vikings never sniffed at.

    The players they brought in this year need to be evaluated & if they make the roster will need a year or two to develop.
    [/quote]
    So your telling me the guys they brought in last year don't count as moves but the guys they brought in this year do?

    As to when they are/can be ready, Cook took the field last year. How much more ready can you be than that?

    Your not making sense.
    [/quote]

    The guys they brought in last year were UDFA's much like this year with the exception of when Cook was added. Yes Cook played last season, but he was drafted in 2006 also. He had almost year to learn before seeing significant playing time. He played pretty well in 2006 when the Chiller was running out of options & BJ was talking a beating. Cook's learning curve hasn't gone easy & he's made a lot of errors along the way.

    What I count as moves is either bringing in a good veteran FA or the someone during the draft. In 3 years, the only lineman they drafted was Cook & this year Sullivan, although Hicks was a draft trade casualty who hasn't panned out . Cook was a center when he was drafted as is Sullivan.

    Everyone else they brought in were toaster leavings after the draft. Were they brought in as trainging camp fodder or legitimate shots at making the team?

    IMO, the Vikings have done little if anything to seriously shore up the right side of the line in 3 years. Picking up draft levovers that no one else wanted isn't exactly my idea of actively pursuing a fix to the right side of the line or for backing up the left side. It's more like a shot in the dark hoping someone will pan out.
    [/quote]

    Interesting point, but look at how productive that strategy was at the QB and WR position in the first 2 seasons. They were rewarded with HOF'ers like Pinkston,Brthel Johnson, O'Sullivan,McMahon,Henson and the list goes on.

    Ooops, scratch that on second thought ;D

  7. #87
    digital420's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    Matty has been around for a long time. I EXPECT him to know how best to prepare himself. he is a few years away from being a coach vs a player.. and in that i would really want him to start molding his mind to know WHAT he needs to prepare his body so that when we start preparing the TEAM for the season he's there.

    what is he missing?
    right now they are walking through things he has KNOWN for years.
    this is time best spent with the ufda's, draftee's, and 2nd year guys to build up those who will be backing up our starters. as well as those trying to make the team.

    when it comes to the actuall team mandatory events, and matty is still saying.. no i'm a no show.. then we can worry. at this moment. he's giving reps to people that the coaches NEED to see to evaluate if they can benefit our team or if they are just not cut out to be NFL players.

    i trust birk to make correct decisions that will lead our TEAM to victory, and in this. i accept him to be ready to go when the whistle is blown.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  8. #88
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    Re: Matt Birk on the Defensive

    [size=13pt]Today’s athletes put in the time[/size]

    By Dave Campbell, Associated Press
    in-forum.com


    Published Sunday, May 25, 2008



    Eden Prairie, Minn. - It’s easy to criticize the spiraling salaries and signing bonuses in professional sports as yet another sign of the approaching apocalypse....

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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