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  1. #21
    purplehelmut's Avatar
    purplehelmut is offline Pro-Bowler
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    I don't agree that this is a league that rewards a qb like Manziel. This read-option will be gone after a couple more qbs end up on the PAP list. RG3 had one good year and now has a bad knee. Vick never did reach his potential because of injury. Newton is learning to be a pocket passer because he and his coaches recognize the need for it. Wilson knows how to read a defense and utilize his mobility to extend plays. Roethlisberger uses his mobility in the pocket, not running ability, to extend plays. I don't agree you need a franchise qb to win, although it certainly doesn't hurt. You need one that moves the chains on third down and doesn't throw it to the other team. Flacco damn sure isn't a franchise qb and he's got a ring. You may need one if you have a weak defense and no running game- see Green Bay and Denver and New England. In my opinion there are only a handful franchise qbs in the league anyway- Rogers, Manning, Brady, and Brees- possibly Luck. And two of those are without a ring and Manning will probably never get one, like Marino, who was arguably the best passer in history. There is just way to much risk with Manziel to take him that early- especially if that mistake sets us back like the Ponder one did, or worse. We simply can't afford it. Another interesting question- would Tark succeed in today's NFL? The guys he'd be running from are a whole lot bigger and faster than back in the day and his arm wasn't the biggest either.

  2. #22
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    They talked about this extensively yesterday on the NFL Network, and everyone seemed to agree NONE of the 4 top QBs is ready to start in the NFL. Any team that wants to avoid potentially overloading their shiny new QB really needs to have a veteran to at least start next year while the rookie is being groomed.

    Bridgewater is the most "NFL ready", and his pro day kinda put that into doubt, so my guess is the teams who are QB needy will have to get a Cassel-type QB for next year regardless of who draft Manziel and the rest.
    That's pretty much what the QB-needy teams on the top of the draft have done. Houston with Fitzpatrick, Cleveland has Hoyer, Oakland with Schaub and MN with Cassell.

    In all cases these teams have the option to do what is best for the development of the QB. Sit or play whatever they deem is best. As long as they don't believe that because we picked the guy high he has to come in and start from day one.

  3. #23
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    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplehelmut View Post
    I don't agree that this is a league that rewards a qb like Manziel. This read-option will be gone after a couple more qbs end up on the PAP list. RG3 had one good year and now has a bad knee. Vick never did reach his potential because of injury. Newton is learning to be a pocket passer because he and his coaches recognize the need for it. Wilson knows how to read a defense and utilize his mobility to extend plays. Roethlisberger uses his mobility in the pocket, not running ability, to extend plays. I don't agree you need a franchise qb to win, although it certainly doesn't hurt. You need one that moves the chains on third down and doesn't throw it to the other team. Flacco damn sure isn't a franchise qb and he's got a ring. You may need one if you have a weak defense and no running game- see Green Bay and Denver and New England. In my opinion there are only a handful franchise qbs in the league anyway- Rogers, Manning, Brady, and Brees- possibly Luck. And two of those are without a ring and Manning will probably never get one, like Marino, who was arguably the best passer in history. There is just way to much risk with Manziel to take him that early- especially if that mistake sets us back like the Ponder one did, or worse. We simply can't afford it. Another interesting question- would Tark succeed in today's NFL? The guys he'd be running from are a whole lot bigger and faster than back in the day and his arm wasn't the biggest either.
    Pretty sure they've all won a SB.

  4. #24
    Ted Dibiase is offline Rookie
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    They talked about this extensively yesterday on the NFL Network, and everyone seemed to agree NONE of the 4 top QBs is ready to start in the NFL. Any team that wants to avoid potentially overloading their shiny new QB really needs to have a veteran to at least start next year while the rookie is being groomed.

    Bridgewater is the most "NFL ready", and his pro day kinda put that into doubt, so my guess is the teams who are QB needy will have to get a Cassel-type QB for next year regardless of who draft Manziel and the rest.
    Yeah I watched that too and pretty much agree, except Bridgewater. I'm still high on him and before the Cassel signing was all for trading up for him. But I think I've beat that horse enough. With Peterson's age I just have a hard time believing they'd give up high picks for someone who won't help this year.

  5. #25
    purplehelmut's Avatar
    purplehelmut is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Pretty sure they've all won a SB.
    My bad- I forgot about Mannings Colt win. FWIW I think Luck will eventually wind up with at least one ring.
    Last edited by purplehelmut; 03-28-2014 at 01:32 PM.

  6. #26
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    drewlovs is offline Asst. Coach
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    What I personally like about Manziel is, barring 2 games (I believe) that Mayock talked to him about, when Manziel escapes the pocket, he is still looking to throw the ball.

    RGIII hardly ever pulled out of his run to put it down field if he made the decision to run, and Newton is learning to do what Manziel seems to naturally... continuously look for a WR even while running for his life. Mayock's concern was in a couple of games, he didn't trust his pocket, and as such, missed wide open receivers. Note how he listed specific games... because it was out of character for Manziel to do that.

    If opposing defenses can figure out what spooks him, he will be flawed.

    But speaking of opposing defenses, remember what the DCs on a LOT of teams are saying about Manziel: "they do not want any part of him!!"

    When was the last time you heard about a college QB that inspired that sort of fear in NFL DCs? I honestly can't think of any atm, though I'm sure there were a few before I was really paying attention. Usually, though, the DCs say, "He is impressive, but wait until he gets to the NFL. THAT will be the deciding factor..."

    When NFL Defensive Coordinators fear a rookie QB, it is something worthy of noting.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

    ~Napoleon Bonaparte on Politics

  7. #27
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    Eh hopefully the Vikings pass on Manziel. I didn't like his style before the pro day and there's no brooms chasing him in the NFL.
    Skol Vikings! Go Cubs!

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  8. #28
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    Johnny Football is now a top three pick after what he did at his pro day. The dude came out in shoulder pads and a helmet and kicked ass, he set a new standard for qb pro days.

  9. #29
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    Well he did impress everybody in the Pro Day. But that also needs to translate to on the field gold for him. Along with not being a distraction off the field.
    NFL 2013 is Here!

  10. #30
    Rage4Order is offline Rookie
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    So he had a great pro day.. Wow I remember someone not too long ago, who just wowed people at his pro day. Still considered one of the best pro days. Does the name Jamarcus Russell ring a bell. Don't really understand all the emphasis put on a guy throwing a scripted practice in his shorts and no defense trying to stop you or rip your head off. His pro day means nothing at all, NADA. Hell Derek Carrs pro day was just as good, but he is just not getting all the hype. Pointless. The most important things to look at are his game tapes, off field issues. Not throwing a football in your shorts, with no defense to contest.

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