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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamecocksbaseball31 View Post
    Exactly. Perhaps you don't understand what you are saying. The Texans aren't going to trade back to 32 and give up #1 overall. For the value to be there it would have to be in the top 10.

    WITH THAT BEING SAID, the ONLY team I can see that is in that much of need at DE is Atlanta.
    No, YOU don't understand what I am saying. Let's use the Jets, because I really don't think too much of their coach. Doing a Redskin's style trade when they went after RGIII, the Texans would get the #18 pick, the #50 pick, the Jet's 2015 1st round pick, and the Jet's 2016 1st round pick. At #18, there is still a great chance of getting a great player, plus they get the #33 and #50 picks to get more from this deep draft.

    What team would not give up ONE draft pick to insure they had 2 1st round picks for the next 2 years?

    Again, it was a dumb move on the Redskin's part, but the fact that they DID do it means someone else might this year too. I do not think it will happen, but saying the Texans would be stupid for doing it is what I'm taking exception to.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

    ~Napoleon Bonaparte on Politics

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplepat View Post
    Sure. Why wouldn't the Vikings want Bridgewater instead of the "full of flags" Manziel? And in either case, if they could trade back, why wouldn't they? After #8, no one is going to be looking at QB again before Cleveland at #26.
    So if they do trade back, you are agreeing with me. Sorry for not saying "...take Manziel or Bridgewater.", I was focusing on the fact that this scenario really forces the Vikings to take a QB or trade back, unless you think Gilbert is worth the #8.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

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  3. #93
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    So if they do trade back, you are agreeing with me. Sorry for not saying "...take Manziel or Bridgewater.", I was focusing on the fact that this scenario really forces the Vikings to take a QB or trade back, unless you think Gilbert is worth the #8.
    Actually, no, I'm not agreeing with you. (Nothing personal).

    Number one - if presented with the mock you showed, I might very well decide to take WR Mike Evans at #8. Even with Cassel slinging the rock, imagine the dilemma defenses would have if you put Patterson, Jennings, Evans, Rudolph and Peterson out there every play (FWIW, last season in the NFL 3 WRs were on the field on just over 50% of the offensive snaps). No more 8, 9 in the box. Visions of 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed and Robert Smith...defense pick your poison, because you can't adequately cover all the options.

    Number two - IF they cannot find a trade partner and have to make a pick at #8, then they might well pick Manziel, or Bridgewater, or Evans, or perhaps even Mosely (to play OLB) or Zack Martin (to play LG). I know some of those players aren't "ranked" to be chosen as highly as #8. The question is "Are any of the QBs really good enough to be picked over more talented players at positions of need"? I'm not convinced that ANY of the QBs in this draft are really worthy of a 1st round pick, and almost certainly none of them in the top 10. Teams like the Vikings who are desperate for a QB (and there are more than a few) will probably reach for the best/better guys early, but it doesn't mean that the players will play up to their draft position (just like Ponder).

    I'm pretty sure I do want the Vikings to wind up with one of the top 5 QB prospects (and by top 5, I'm saying Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo). But if they get a couple of studs in rounds 1 and 2 and have to settle for a Mettenberger, or maybe a McCarron, or a more developmental guy like Savage (what a name for Vikings QB!), I could live with that.
    SKOL VIKINGS!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplepat View Post
    Actually, no, I'm not agreeing with you. (Nothing personal).

    Number one - if presented with the mock you showed, I might very well decide to take WR Mike Evans at #8. Even with Cassel slinging the rock, imagine the dilemma defenses would have if you put Patterson, Jennings, Evans, Rudolph and Peterson out there every play (FWIW, last season in the NFL 3 WRs were on the field on just over 50% of the offensive snaps). No more 8, 9 in the box. Visions of 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed and Robert Smith...defense pick your poison, because you can't adequately cover all the options.

    Number two - IF they cannot find a trade partner and have to make a pick at #8, then they might well pick Manziel, or Bridgewater, or Evans, or perhaps even Mosely (to play OLB) or Zack Martin (to play LG). I know some of those players aren't "ranked" to be chosen as highly as #8. The question is "Are any of the QBs really good enough to be picked over more talented players at positions of need"? I'm not convinced that ANY of the QBs in this draft are really worthy of a 1st round pick, and almost certainly none of them in the top 10. Teams like the Vikings who are desperate for a QB (and there are more than a few) will probably reach for the best/better guys early, but it doesn't mean that the players will play up to their draft position (just like Ponder).

    I'm pretty sure I do want the Vikings to wind up with one of the top 5 QB prospects (and by top 5, I'm saying Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo). But if they get a couple of studs in rounds 1 and 2 and have to settle for a Mettenberger, or maybe a McCarron, or a more developmental guy like Savage (what a name for Vikings QB!), I could live with that.
    I try to avoid taking things personal on these boards, we all have the same goal, just different points of view as to how to get that done.

    I don't see any of the players mentioned (except Evans, maybe) besides the QBs as being worth what we could get via trading back. You are right, of course, that it depends on the teams willing to trade with us, but I feel confident that Evans will get many teams vying for the #8 if he is available.

    But again! These are all of our opinions, and our lifestyles are not on the line if we are wrong. Either way, this year I have confidence in our coach and GM, something I haven't had in years.
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

    ~Napoleon Bonaparte on Politics

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    I try to avoid taking things personal on these boards, we all have the same goal, just different points of view as to how to get that done.

    I don't see any of the players mentioned (except Evans, maybe) besides the QBs as being worth what we could get via trading back. You are right, of course, that it depends on the teams willing to trade with us, but I feel confident that Evans will get many teams vying for the #8 if he is available.

    But again! These are all of our opinions, and our lifestyles are not on the line if we are wrong. Either way, this year I have confidence in our coach and GM, something I haven't had in years.
    I think a trade is very possible. It seems clear that the Ravens are really interested in Evans or Watkins ... and most teams feel like if they want one of those two receivers they have to get in front of the Lions.

    We could easily move back and still land a Mosely or Carr or something of the like and be in really good shape with what might be the best second and third rounds in the NFL Draft in quite some time.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    I stand by what I said; if a team offers the Texans their 1st and 2nd, and next year's 1st they WILL trade the first pick- but only because JJ Watts is already signed. I cannot think of another player in this draft that would tempt a team to trade away the farm besides Clowney though.
    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    No, YOU don't understand what I am saying. Let's use the Jets, because I really don't think too much of their coach. Doing a Redskin's style trade when they went after RGIII, the Texans would get the #18 pick, the #50 pick, the Jet's 2015 1st round pick, and the Jet's 2016 1st round pick. At #18, there is still a great chance of getting a great player, plus they get the #33 and #50 picks to get more from this deep draft.

    What team would not give up ONE draft pick to insure they had 2 1st round picks for the next 2 years?

    Again, it was a dumb move on the Redskin's part, but the fact that they DID do it means someone else might this year too. I do not think it will happen, but saying the Texans would be stupid for doing it is what I'm taking exception to. .
    If you go back to what you WERE arguing, you didn't say anything about the pick 2 years from now. Pretty huge difference.

  7. #97
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    8 WR SAMMY WATKINS CLEMSON
    40 LB RYAN SHAZIER OHIO STATE
    72 C MARCUS MARTIN USC (he started 2 years at OG before moving to C)
    96 QB ZACH METTENBERGER LSU
    108 CB JAYLEN WATKINS FLORIDA

    Holy Shit! That would be sweet, eh!??

    Pretty much went with a top 3 BPA pick in every instance and still nailed holes.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    8 WR SAMMY WATKINS CLEMSON
    40 LB RYAN SHAZIER OHIO STATE
    72 C MARCUS MARTIN USC (he started 2 years at OG before moving to C)
    96 QB ZACH METTENBERGER LSU
    108 CB JAYLEN WATKINS FLORIDA

    Holy Shit! That would be sweet, eh!??

    Pretty much went with a top 3 BPA pick in every instance and still nailed holes.
    I love nailing holes

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
    ----------------------------------------------
    As a matter of fact, I do know

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    I love nailing holes
    LOL!! Nice!

    Here's another run taking the top guy on the list, other than devaluing RBs 3 or 4 spots on the later 3 picks...and I think the depth of the draft is really showing through, that we can go BPA and still fill the holes with some serious talent.

    8
    WR MIKE EVANS TEXAS A&M
    40
    DT TIMMY JERNIGAN FLORIDA STATE
    72
    C MARCUS MARTIN USC
    96
    QB JIMMY GAROPPOLO EASTERN ILLINOIS
    108
    DE JACKSON JEFFCOAT TEXAS

    Adding Evans catching radius to Flash and Jennings and Rudolf makes who our QB is matter much, much less...specially when you also add a bigger-younger-stronger improvement at LG who can fill in at C if needed too. Jernigan is usually off the board by the mid teens, if he somehow falls to 40, how do we not take him!? Add him and the smaller, faster Jeffcoat to the other DL we already have and our front line rotation looks as good as any in the league. Not at all a bad thing in a division full of probowl QBs and big, fast WRs!?!!

    And then there is QB where I really feel I'll be happy with any of them, as I see a large bunch of roughly equal projects who won't have a chance to win unless we improve the rest of the team too. And I'm assuming that they know better than I which of them fits the program best.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  10. #100
    2beersTommy's Avatar
    2beersTommy is offline Team Alumni
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    8
    OLB KHALIL MACK
    BUFFALO
    40
    CB KYLE FULLER
    VIRGINIA TECH
    72
    C MARCUS MARTIN
    USC
    96
    DT DAQUAN JONES
    PENN STATE
    108
    QB ZACH METTENBERGER
    LSU
    148
    DE MORGAN BRESLIN
    USC


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