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  1. #21
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post

    It is also a question of what their last games were like. Like it or not, Ponder played OK in weeks 14-16.
    He did? I disagree.

    Week 14: 91 yards passing, 0 TDs, 1 INT

    Week 15: 131 yards passing, 0 TDs, 0 INT

    Week 16: 174 yards passing, 1 TDs, 0 INT

    How do you get OK out of weeks 14 & 15? I guess that's what you mean by saying you can't judge them both the same. If those were Jackson's numbers, how many people here, including yourself, would say it was OK?

    His saving grace was week 17 & we'll never know how he would have done in week 18 had he played.

    Personally, I felt we should have started Jackson all of 2008 & when he didn't pan out, draft a future QB in 2009. With Ponder, I feel we should be looking to the draft for a replacement now, but signing Cassel tends to put a damper on that as does the lack of a QB in this years draft. There isn't a single QB anyone is talking about this year that I've heard of.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-06-2013 at 10:35 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #22
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    RK. is offline Ring of Fame Rally Cross II Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    He did? I disagree.

    Week 14: 91 yards passing, 0 TDs, 1 INT

    Week 15: 131 yards passing, 0 TDs, 0 INT

    Week 16: 174 yards passing, 1 TDs, 0 INT

    How do you get OK out of weeks 14 & 15? I guess that's what you mean by saying you can't judge them both the same. If those were Jackson's numbers, how many people here would say it was OK?

    His saving grace was week 17 & we'll never know how he would have done in week 18 had he played.
    Its all relative Singer. Those are better numbers than his previous games. Its like hitting your thumb with a hammer and feeling good that you didn't cut it off with a saw. He had better hit the ground running this year or he is going to be the backup QB. I think Viking fans will run out of patience pretty quickly if he doesn't put some wins on the board in the first half of the season. If you lose fan support in MN your done. Just ask Childress.

    WWBGD

  3. #23
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RK. View Post
    Its all relative Singer. Those are better numbers than his previous games. Its like hitting your thumb with a hammer and feeling good that you didn't cut it off with a saw. He had better hit the ground running this year or he is going to be the backup QB. I think Viking fans will run out of patience pretty quickly if he doesn't put some wins on the board in the first half of the season. If you lose fan support in MN your done. Just ask Childress.
    Comparing them to just the 2 games prior to that still doesn't make them OK, it simply means the turd was more polished. Look at his first 6 weeks. Most of those were far better games. He went downhill again.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Comparing them to just the 2 games prior to that still doesn't make them OK, it simply means the turd was more polished. Look at his first 6 weeks. Most of those were far better games. He went downhill again.
    I'd agree with that and I know you know your polished turds from a response to Jackson being where he belonged

    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    He belongs beating out Vince Young (the #3 pick overall,whom many here pined for) for a backup QB job while Vince is now unemployed?
    now theres some polishing on what turned out to be the backup to the backup (behind 2...7th rounders???) running the scout team.

    But back to Ponder last year wasn't the make or break as we found out with Webb as the backup it really was an all in year for Ponder cause there was no plan B. When I thought Ponder should have been sat for poor play like the Tampa game for an example and Webb put in for a change, a better chance for the team, protect Ponder from himself, well it just turns out Webb just not the answer and it would appear the staff knew this; they might not have wanted to admit it or have us see it.

    I also don't see us drafting (which would mean some actually planning for the future) a QB with all the needs this year and if Ponder doesn't 'make it' this season we could end up doing the same thing the Bills or Cards are doing this year but I think it will be with a new coach (Frazier's make or break year).

    Now the one thing that could save the staff's bacon is Cassel, is if Ponder flounders and they make the move to save things and made it to the post season again as well as a post season win but I have a hard time seeing that at the moment (due to the lack of the draft etc)

  5. #25
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Ponder will get hurt again and Cassel will take over, and at the end of the year they still won't know what they have at QB.
    If Ponder fails this season, I don't want the same guy who reached for him in charge of selecting the next QB.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    The difference is when it comes to Jackson, the anti-Jackson crowd look only at the number of years he was here as if he was named the starter all 5 of those years, & totally disregard the actual starts each had. Ponder has had more in his 2 years than Jackson had in 5. That's fact. That doesn't mean Ponder is entitled to 5 years before he can be judged. Some of the same people who wanted Jackson gone after 6 starts in 2007 feel we need to see Ponder play in a minimum of 42 before he can be judged.

    And while there's some truth in that Ponder & Jackson can't be judged apples to apples 100%, the criteria for judging both isn't worlds apart like NP wants us to believe. It's the same WCO and the difference isn't so great that one can be judged after 6 starts, while the other demands 42. A wee bit of a difference there.

    The other thing everyone keeps forgetting, because it doesn't fit into their agenda is that I didn't want Jackson here for 5 years, I wanted him to play all of 2008 rather than benching him & if he didn't pan out, move on without him. I share that same feeling with Ponder. We would be so much further ahead.

    I get ridiculed for saying 14 starts wasn't enough by the same people stating 26 starts isn't enough.
    I knew you wouldn't disappoint...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    He did? I disagree.

    Week 14: 91 yards passing, 0 TDs, 1 INT

    Week 15: 131 yards passing, 0 TDs, 0 INT

    Week 16: 174 yards passing, 1 TDs, 0 INT

    How do you get OK out of weeks 14 & 15? I guess that's what you mean by saying you can't judge them both the same. If those were Jackson's numbers, how many people here, including yourself, would say it was OK?

    His saving grace was week 17 & we'll never know how he would have done in week 18 had he played.

    Personally, I felt we should have started Jackson all of 2008 & when he didn't pan out, draft a future QB in 2009. With Ponder, I feel we should be looking to the draft for a replacement now, but signing Cassel tends to put a damper on that as does the lack of a QB in this years draft. There isn't a single QB anyone is talking about this year that I've heard of.
    You're barking up the wrong tree trying to argue Ponder with me. If you remember, I am not a Ponder fan. I don't think he has the arm strength to get the ball downfield fast enough to be a threat, and that isn't something that can improve. He is very, very similar to Alex Smith IMHO.

    And how did I get OK out of weeks 14 and 15? Well, by watching them, not just looking at the stats on paper out of context.

    Ponder completed 64% and 71% of his passes respectfully in those two weeks. And he completed those passes in key situations. 7 of Ponder's 11 completions went for first downs in the Chicago game. 9 of his 17 completions went for first downs in the St Louis game. In both games Peterson was the difference maker, not Ponder. We played with a lead the entire time in both games, and Ponder was not asked to do much. But he still did everything he was asked to do in both games to secure a win.

    Yes, I would consider that OK. But then again, I like to form my judgement of players by their play, not just by their fantasy stats...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #28
    MulletMullitia's Avatar
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    Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny Football please! I'll give Ponder a year. But next year's QB class is way too good to give Ponder more than a year. Definite franchise opportunity, unlike this year! You will see that when desperate teams like the Cardinals or Bills reach for a QB too high because they had to. Like we had to with Ponder. We HAD to draft a QB. Nobody in the world thought 3 QBs would be off the board by 12. Gabbert to JAX and Locker to TEN gave us no choice. Hopefully Spielman and Studwell recognize that and realize that franchise talent at the QB position is too valuable and rare to pass up, even if you just spent a first rounder on a guy that didn't pan out.
    Last edited by MulletMullitia; 04-07-2013 at 01:45 AM.

    Sorry Rick! Keep up the good work.

  9. #29
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    You're barking up the wrong tree trying to argue Ponder with me. If you remember, I am not a Ponder fan. I don't think he has the arm strength to get the ball downfield fast enough to be a threat, and that isn't something that can improve. He is very, very similar to Alex Smith IMHO.

    And how did I get OK out of weeks 14 and 15? Well, by watching them, not just looking at the stats on paper out of context.

    Ponder completed 64% and 71% of his passes respectfully in those two weeks. And he completed those passes in key situations. 7 of Ponder's 11 completions went for first downs in the Chicago game. 9 of his 17 completions went for first downs in the St Louis game. In both games Peterson was the difference maker, not Ponder. We played with a lead the entire time in both games, and Ponder was not asked to do much. But he still did everything he was asked to do in both games to secure a win.

    Yes, I would consider that OK. But then again, I like to form my judgement of players by their play, not just by their fantasy stats...

    I guess your idea of "key situations" differs a lot from mine. For instance, I don't consider the first play of our first possession as "key", nor do I consider 1st downs as key. I also was looking at more than how many first downs he threw as the only criteria. It's a lot easier to complete a high percentage of your passes when most of them aren't sailing beyond 10 yards. You also need to look at the passes he didn't complete or completed short of the first down in key situations.

    In the Bears game 4 of the 7 passes you called key, were on 3rd down. 2 of the remaining 3 were on 1st down passes & the 7th on a 2nd down. Only 1 of those 1st downs happened on a drive that resulted in a score. The remaining 6 happened on drives where we punted due after Ponder had thrown an incompletion, threw short of the 1st down or took a huge sack.

    In the Rams game only 1 of his 9 passes you call key, happened on 3rd down. 2 came on 1st downs including the first play of their first possession. 6 came on 2nd downs of which 2 happened to be more than 5 yards to go. 2 of them happened on a drive that lead to a TD. One of those was their 1st play from scrimmage, the 2nd on 2nd & 6. The key pass on that drive IMO, was a 3rd & 14 where we didn't convert, but came up 1 yard short & went for it on 4th, converted & got the TD.

    After that 1st drive, it was 9 stalled drives & 1 TD run by AD on 1st & 10 at the start of the drive. On 6 of the 9 drives that stalled, on key downs Ponder either threw incomplete passes, passes short of the 1st down or took a sack.

    Now you're definition of OK, may be different than mine, but I saw a lot of bad in those games along with the good. After that 1st drive which amounted to a little less than 1/3 of his total passing yards, he wasn't that OK in the remaining 11 drives.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
    Flair Hay is offline Rookie
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    I think if we draft a WR in the first then it will be a huge make or break year, I agree. If all we have is Jennings and Rudolph it will likely be tough no matter who is at QB. I'm okay with us not being contenders next year. But I think we could have another good year if we get a couple of starters out of the draft.

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