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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    It's all the ifs with Ponder and a few other players, I have a hard time with.
    If Ponder had accuracy like Rodgers. If Simpson could have a good season. If Henderson could be effective at MLB. Etc. , etc..
    Vikings still have a lot of ifs, and Ponder is the biggest if of all.

    The Vikings should be better this year, but will they be good enough ?
    I don't deny Rodgers is accurate but he also has WRs that come down with some errant passes also. That defintely helps a QB if he knows he can have a bad pass and it won't get picked off, it might even get caught.

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    It's all the ifs with Ponder and a few other players, I have a hard time with.
    If Ponder had accuracy like Rodgers. If Simpson could have a good season. If Henderson could be effective at MLB. Etc. , etc..
    Vikings still have a lot of ifs, and Ponder is the biggest if of all.

    The Vikings should be better this year, but will they be good enough ?
    I think we will be better but probably not good enough. We still have a lot of areas that need improvement, but if they can keep up the physical play and continue to play as a team like they showed last year, then the increased talent on the roster should show a better team this year.

    Ponder is still the biggest question mark and I doubt he's going to turn into a superstar overnight. Will he get better is the question. Will the increased talent and experience help him or is he reaching his ceiling? Not expecting greatness by any means, and if he doesn't continue to go forward I would expect him to get pulled at some point in the season.

    One other thing I wonder about is how much of the passing offense in a place like Green Bay is due to the QB and how much is due to the overall system/emphasis/talent. Rodgers is a great QB, I have no question, but if you put him in a place like MN as a rookie, what would he look like and how would he develop?

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    One other thing I wonder about is how much of the passing offense in a place like Green Bay is due to the QB and how much is due to the overall system/emphasis/talent. Rodgers is a great QB, I have no question, but if you put him in a place like MN as a rookie, what would he look like and how would he develop?
    A good system does help a lot. That stated, Aaron Rodger has earned a bust in the HoF playing in that system. Ponder may just be a bust in any system.

    Rodgers, Brees, and Eli did not smoke the league in their first two seasons, so there is some hope for Ponder.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Rodgers, Brees, and Eli did not smoke the league in their first two seasons, so there is some hope for Ponder.
    In his second year as the starting QB in GB, Rodgers threw for 4,434 yards, threw 30 TD's to 7 INTS, completed 64.7% of his passes & averaged 8.2 yds/pass.

    In his second year as the starting QB in MN, Ponder threw for 2,934 yards (1,500 yds. less), threw 18 TD's (12 less) to 12 INTS (5 more), completed 62.1% of his passes (2.6% less) & averaged 6.1 yds/pass (2.1 yds/pass less).

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    LOL, I will take anything out of context I want as long as it keeps the discussion going my friend. You know that.....
    Aha.


    You see the thing I did were I broke down the Vikings, (Dink Dunk), The Pats (Dink Dunk) and the PUKERS (Coryell)?
    No. Why would you label our offense as dink/dunk but the Packers as Coryell when the Packers are running or have been running the exact same offense as we have for a long time. Do you not remember how Brett was able to come here and run the plays right away because he already had been running the plays for nearly 20 years in GB? They still run the same offense today.

    The Coryell offense used the run to set up the pass and had totally different read progressions than what GB runs or what we run. Look to Dallas and San Diego and probably Oakland although they change shit too fast these days to keep track of.

    All of them were in the 2 to 5 range (Avg) per game on deep passes. I think we will all see that one of the benifits of actually having a starter at each position (X, Y, and Z) as well as the flexibility to move a couple of them around will greatly increase the completion percentages of the "Deep" passes everyone seems to think Ponder can't make, even though he has to some extent at this level and was pretty consistent with at the collegiate level.
    Well, I am rooting for Ponder because I don't want to go through another QB search but he has not been good at deep passes and it hasn't been the WR's that were the problem. Can he fix his problems? Maybe. But it remains to be seen.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    In his second year as the starting QB in GB, Rodgers threw for 4,434 yards, threw 30 TD's to 7 INTS, completed 64.7% of his passes & averaged 8.2 yds/pass.

    In his second year as the starting QB in MN, Ponder threw for 2,934 yards (1,500 yds. less), threw 18 TD's (12 less) to 12 INTS (5 more), completed 62.1% of his passes (2.6% less) & averaged 6.1 yds/pass (2.1 yds/pass less).
    I did not state, "second year starting"; I stated, "in their first two seasons".

    Rodgers was able to sit and learn from a quarterback that knew how to study game film, exploit defenses, and get the ball out of the pocket. Ponder got a half season watching a quarterback who was not enough of a team player to even stick around after he was benched and a year and a half starting in front of a quarterback who had no NFL experience.

    I am aware what Aaron Rodgers did in his second season starting. On another website, I defended the Packers drafting Rodgers against Vikings fans that said he was a bust because Rodgers could not unseat the future Hall of Fame quarterback they already had. That second season starting made many Vikings fans, and unbelieving Packers fans for that matter, eat a lot of crow.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    In his second year as the starting QB in GB, Rodgers threw for 4,434 yards, threw 30 TD's to 7 INTS, completed 64.7% of his passes & averaged 8.2 yds/pass.

    In his second year as the starting QB in MN, Ponder threw for 2,934 yards (1,500 yds. less), threw 18 TD's (12 less) to 12 INTS (5 more), completed 62.1% of his passes (2.6% less) & averaged 6.1 yds/pass (2.1 yds/pass less).
    That is like saying horse-apples taste just like Red Delicious ones. Rodgers got the best possible entry into the league with 3 years of learning the system, the players, the rigor of the NFL season, etc, and watching a HOF QB execute it with pro-bowl WRs before starting a single game. Ponder got 6 games of watching ole McOneHopper prove that he no longer wanted to play, just be paid, before he got thrown behind a questionable line with a scat-back as his best WR and not much past that.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

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  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    That is like saying horse-apples taste just like Red Delicious ones. Rodgers got the best possible entry into the league with 3 years of learning the system, the players, the rigor of the NFL season, etc, and watching a HOF QB execute it with pro-bowl WRs before starting a single game. Ponder got 6 games of watching ole McOneHopper prove that he no longer wanted to play, just be paid, before he got thrown behind a questionable line with a scat-back as his best WR and not much past that.
    I don't think it really matters because Rodgers clearly was more talented coming out of college than Ponder and only the brain trust of the Vikings FO would draft this kid this high.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    That is like saying horse-apples taste just like Red Delicious ones. Rodgers got the best possible entry into the league with 3 years of learning the system, the players, the rigor of the NFL season, etc, and watching a HOF QB execute it with pro-bowl WRs before starting a single game. Ponder got 6 games of watching ole McOneHopper prove that he no longer wanted to play, just be paid, before he got thrown behind a questionable line with a scat-back as his best WR and not much past that.
    Didn't ole McOneHopper get thrown behind that same questionable line with the same scat-back as his best WR and not much past that as well & have even less time getting in sync with the same
    WR corp before having to start his 1st game with a new team?

    Just saying....

    As bad as McNabb was, he still completed a higher percentage of his passes, threw for more yards per game, had less interceptions per game, had a higher yards per pass average & maintained a higher rating than Ponder did in 2011 & still after 2012, Ponder has yet to best most of those.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #180
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    Ponder certainly isn't lighting the NFL on fire but to even suggest that his play is as bad as or worse than McNabbs is ridiculous if you watched any of the games with your eyeballs. if you rely on dredging stats you may be able to make a correlation but it would not be accurate. McNabb was the single worst QB we have had in a long time.

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