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  1. #151
    thorshammer is offline Asst. Coach
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    I expect big things from Ponder this year. He has some new toys. Time to make it happen and I believe he can get things going. To be fair he had very little to work with until now.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorshammer View Post
    I expect big things from Ponder this year. He has some new toys. Time to make it happen and I believe he can get things going. To be fair he had very little to work with until now.
    Same here thorshammer. this year he actually has a few weapons at his disposal. I think the game finally began to slow down for him late in the season last year. That was the weakness that stood out the most to me in his first 1/2 season and still early last year. hopefully he makes the leap this year. The biggest thing that bothers me about him at this point is that this is the second site that I have heard a poster say that they have spoken directly to a Viking player that stated that players on the team had no respect for Ponder. I can see if that player was Percy, as it seems he has a problem with people not named Percy. But if these statements are true,(I know, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear), that is a huge problem. I have faith that Frazier would do something about it if it were 100% correct, but I am not part of the team so I would never really know.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    This is statistical evidence of what we have seen in play. I was trying to remain positive about Ponder until I saw his complete lack of ability to consistently hit receivers on the move past 15 yards. He was not just bad, he was awful. Being the 33rd ranked QB in a 32 team league says a lot.

    The 15-20 yard pass is a "make or break" pass for a quarterback with a good arm. Having a good arm means making deep throws that are on target. Those passes open the box. The uber bomb looks good, but is not a good choice for coordinators who play high percentages.
    Good stuff

    The other key thing I like in that chart, which Marrdro seemed to leave out in his "Ponder is similar to Brady" analysis is the TD. The 1 TD he did have in 72 attempts (1.4%) doesn't even come close to Brady's 11 TD's in 118 attempts (9.3%).

    I may be wrong, but it looks like Brady is ranked 15th & Ponder 33rd. That doesn't scream close or similar to me.

    The other thing that really stands out to me is the QB rating. Ponder is at 39.6 which is a huge margin away from the next worse QB in the league (Weeden) who has a 61.2 rating.
    I noticed that as well, as it was difficult to overlook how poor Ponder's rating was compared to even the worst other quarterbacks. On closer examination, Ponder did just as poorly in the other statistical categories, but his TD/INT ratio was the worst. He is the only quarterback to have both a low pass percentage and a such a poor TD/INT ratio. Brady and Weeden did have low pass percentage numbers, and Henne did have a poor TD/INT ratio, but none of them combined for such dismal numbers as Ponder.

    That is likely due to his poor accuracy beyond 15 yards. Ponder floats the ball out and rarely hits a receiver in stride. How many of these throws were Ponder's patented three yards out of bounds sideline passes?

    Once again, I must mention that YPA and TD/INT are the most important statistics a quarterback has. At this distance, Ponder was the worst in the NFL in both areas. Pass percentage, which cannot be offset by short passes here, is dismal also. One can only blame so much of that on receivers.
    Last edited by Minniman; 05-12-2013 at 07:12 AM.

  4. #154
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    Make-or-Break Year for Christian Ponder

    Heck, in his first year the fans blamed his lack of success on the OL. I stated that was not the problem but a top 5 tackle was drafted and nothing changed so this draft it was the WRs fault and we drafted a 1st round WR. That isn't going to fix the problem either but I wonder what position is going to be the next scapegoat.

    The passing game will look better either when Ponder improves his down field accuracy, which I am doubtful he can, or when he is replaced by someone who can make those throws.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    The passing game will look better either when Ponder improves his down field accuracy, which I am doubtful he can, or when he is replaced by someone who can make those throws.
    I am not high on Cassel, but it would be nice to go into camp without a designated starter. I wonder why the Vikings decided to bring in a veteran backup with arguably worse overall career stats than their NFL bottom dweller quarterback. Ponder could learn a lot from someone like Favre on the sideline, but what can Cassel contribute? "Oh, I saw Tom Brady do this once ...."

    In any case, if Ponder cannot make those throws, as scouting reports have doubted, it will not matter what the backup says to Ponder because Ponder will be on the bench. Do I wish that for Ponder? I certainly do not. I hope Ponder breaks out this season, as some young quarterbacks do in their third or fourth years in the league.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Heck, in his first year the fans blamed his lack of success on the OL. I stated that was not the problem but a top 5 tackle was drafted and nothing changed so this draft it was the WRs fault and we drafted a 1st round WR. That isn't going to fix the problem either but I wonder what position is going to be the next scapegoat.

    The passing game will look better either when Ponder improves his down field accuracy, which I am doubtful he can, or when he is replaced by someone who can make those throws.
    Oh come on man! Allowing over 50 sacks/season is acceptable to you!?? WTF!? Some of you need to realize that those other spots did need fixing too, and that young QBs nearly always need a few years of simmering to hit their potential. He may prove to be unable to make "deep" throws accurately, as you and many proclaim, or he may Improve with experience and better help around him, but with the other holes filled, it is like a growing ring of fingers pointing at him from the rest of the offensive starters...

    HOF RB? check!!
    Precision route running WR? check!
    Athletic threat WR? check!?
    Pro-bowl MVP TE?? check!!!
    Improving/mostly solid OL? check!?
    Pro-bowl FB? check!!

    That is good news my friend!! Whether Ponder succeeds or not, whoever is playing QB for the Vikings is going to be pretty freaking happy to have that kind of talent around him. It's the kid's third year, he only has 1.6 years worth of experience, so quit with the Calls for Cassell already and give him one more chance...at least a few games, say 5 or 8?

    Like the origin of the thread said, "Make or Break Year for Ponder." Either our pass O improves this season, or we improve it next season with a vet that can't wait to play here, or perhaps, using some extra picks to move up on a Johnny Football type guy.

    Not so bad at all. I like where this team is and, more importantly, is headed.

    SKOL VIKINGS!!!!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    I am not high on Cassel, but it would be nice to go into camp without a designated starter. I wonder why the Vikings decided to bring in a veteran backup with arguably worse overall career stats than their NFL bottom dweller quarterback.
    It seems that this is the blueprint the team has had since Wilf bought it. When they moved up to draft Jackson in the 2nd even though he was projected to go in the 6th they brought in guys like Bollinger, Holcolm etc to back him up and the only reason I can think of was that they were so bad that Jackson just looked better by default. Or that they wanted someone the fans knew was so terrible that they wouldn't start the chant to bench the starter in favor of the backup since for 30 years or better the most popular player on the Vikings staff has been the backup QB lol.




    Ponder could learn a lot from someone like Favre on the sideline, but what can Cassel contribute? "Oh, I saw Tom Brady do this once ...."
    Hopefully if Ponder gets hurt like he did last year at least Cassel can step in and play at a similarly low threshold which is a huge step up from what we got from Webb. Other than that I don't see him as any sort of guru.

    In any case, if Ponder cannot make those throws, as scouting reports have doubted, it will not matter what the backup says to Ponder because Ponder will be on the bench. Do I wish that for Ponder? I certainly do not. I hope Ponder breaks out this season, as some young quarterbacks do in their third or fourth years in the league.
    I pretty much feel that way too. I really want Ponder to be the guy we have needed for a long time but he has so many things that he needs to improve on that generally are not things you can improve that I am not optimistic. That being said the way they are building the nucleus for the rest of the team if they do need to replace him the new guy can step in and make a sudden impact.

  8. #158
    thorshammer is offline Asst. Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshallvike View Post
    Same here thorshammer. this year he actually has a few weapons at his disposal. I think the game finally began to slow down for him late in the season last year. That was the weakness that stood out the most to me in his first 1/2 season and still early last year. hopefully he makes the leap this year. The biggest thing that bothers me about him at this point is that this is the second site that I have heard a poster say that they have spoken directly to a Viking player that stated that players on the team had no respect for Ponder. I can see if that player was Percy, as it seems he has a problem with people not named Percy. But if these statements are true,(I know, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear), that is a huge problem. I have faith that Frazier would do something about it if it were 100% correct, but I am not part of the team so I would never really know.
    I had not heard that Ponder wasn't respected by other players. Something to keep an eye on. If it is true ... major problem. Bottom line if he plays better this year it should go away if it even is true. I can't wait for the season to start. I am optimistic.

  9. #159
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    Oh come on man! Allowing over 50 sacks/season is acceptable to you!?? WTF!? Some of you need to realize that those other spots did need fixing too, and that young QBs nearly always need a few years of simmering to hit their potential. He may prove to be unable to make "deep" throws accurately, as you and many proclaim, or he may Improve with experience and better help around him, but with the other holes filled, it is like a growing ring of fingers pointing at him from the rest of the offensive starters...

    HOF RB? check!!
    Precision route running WR? check!
    Athletic threat WR? check!?
    Pro-bowl MVP TE?? check!!!
    Improving/mostly solid OL? check!?
    Pro-bowl FB? check!!

    That is good news my friend!! Whether Ponder succeeds or not, whoever is playing QB for the Vikings is going to be pretty freaking happy to have that kind of talent around him. It's the kid's third year, he only has 1.6 years worth of experience, so quit with the Calls for Cassell already and give him one more chance...at least a few games, say 5 or 8?

    Like the origin of the thread said, "Make or Break Year for Ponder." Either our pass O improves this season, or we improve it next season with a vet that can't wait to play here, or perhaps, using some extra picks to move up on a Johnny Football type guy.

    Not so bad at all. I like where this team is and, more importantly, is headed.

    SKOL VIKINGS!!!!
    That isn't what I said. Yes, lots of positions needed fixing and they have done a great job fixing them. My point is those were not the reasons he was faltering.The reason for his problems is him.

    Back to your first point though many of those 50 sacks were from him holding the ball too long and not feeling the pressure.

  10. #160
    MossMems is offline Rookie
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    If Ponder doesn't thrive with this offensive, I hope hes is gone faster then a stupid tweet from CK.

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