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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    If we see 3 or so sub 100 yard games from him this year there will be only one person to look at for a change.
    What if we win those games?
    Would odds will you give me on that?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    What if we win those games?
    I would say it is irrelevant just as it was irrelevant when TJ went 8-4 as a starter over his first 12 games as a starter when the credit was due to the defense and the way they were many times scoring more points than TJ was passing.

    To me all it would mean is we could have won by more if the offense was putting up better numbers.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I would say it is irrelevant just as it was irrelevant when TJ went 8-4 as a starter over his first 12 games as a starter when the credit was due to the defense and the way they were many times scoring more points than TJ was passing.

    To me all it would mean is we could have won by more if the offense was putting up better numbers.
    By offense, you mean the passing stats. Maybe putting up a bunch of yards in the air would have led to less production in the running game, more time for the opposing team to counter. More chances by the opposing team to match the tempo giving up more big plays against our pass defense,..........

    If you don't need the QB to throw for 200+ yards (or any other random number) to win a game, then why demand it. Who cares how many yards he passes for unless you have him on your fantasy team (oops).

    Ponder could go 10 for 10 for 90 yards total, AD could rack up a ton of yards and our defense could play lights out. Is that really an issue?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Would odds will you give me on that?
    None, but that's the point. If by throwing for less than a 100 yards costs us the game, then it's much more worthy of a change.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Maybe SF wins the SB if they stayed with Alex. You just don't know, you can only be impressed by Kaepernick's big plays and make assumptions.

    I think the objective of the game is to win, not to put up impressive stats to impress fantasy league players.

    If we lose a game because Ponder is unable to do his job, then I have a problem with him. Otherwise I don't care if the defense wins the game, special teams or the running game. Just win baby and take it as a team not an individual.
    That's some pretty flawed logic. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with putting up better stats for fantasy leagues. Yeah your objective is to win but do you have to ignore how bad your QB is when you do? Shouldn't you always be trying to improve the weaknesses of your team whether you're winning or not? Especially if your biggest weakness is the most important position on your team.

    What if we lost AD for the season? What are the chances we'll win if Ponder is throwing for 100 yards with Gerhart at RB? Yeah Ponders sub 100's are tolerable as long as AD is rushing for 200 yards per game, but how long do you think that's going to last? Take away the 200 yards rushing and the Ponder bandwagon will get much lighter in a hurry.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reignman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Maybe SF wins the SB if they stayed with Alex. You just don't know, you can only be impressed by Kaepernick's big plays and make assumptions.

    I think the objective of the game is to win, not to put up impressive stats to impress fantasy league players.

    If we lose a game because Ponder is unable to do his job, then I have a problem with him. Otherwise I don't care if the defense wins the game, special teams or the running game. Just win baby and take it as a team not an individual.
    That's some pretty flawed logic. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with putting up better stats for fantasy leagues. Yeah your objective is to win but do you have to ignore how bad your QB is when you do? Shouldn't you always be trying to improve the weaknesses of your team whether you're winning or not? Especially if your biggest weakness is the most important position on your team.

    What if we lost AD for the season? What are the chances we'll win if Ponder is throwing for 100 yards with Gerhart at RB? Yeah Ponders sub 100's are tolerable as long as AD is rushing for 200 yards per game, but how long do you think that's going to last? Take away the 200 yards rushing and the Ponder bandwagon will get much lighter in a hurry.
    Re-read my post and I think you'll find your arguing the same point as me.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    By offense, you mean the passing stats. Maybe putting up a bunch of yards in the air would have led to less production in the running game, more time for the opposing team to counter. More chances by the opposing team to match the tempo giving up more big plays against our pass defense,..........

    If you don't need the QB to throw for 200+ yards (or any other random number) to win a game, then why demand it. Who cares how many yards he passes for unless you have him on your fantasy team (oops).

    Ponder could go 10 for 10 for 90 yards total, AD could rack up a ton of yards and our defense could play lights out. Is that really an issue?
    Yeah, I can see your point but in the end what it boils down to is when the rubber meets the road and the ground game isn't working, can the QB under center step up and throw for the yards necessary ( insert whatever number you want here) to win the game .


    With the talent we have and brought in the past year we should be able to throw at will against pretty much anyone and for sure we should be able to get over the century mark in passing and if that isn't necessary then I would have to ask why we would go after one of the blue chip WR's in FA and burn picks to go up in the first and get another one because the guys we had are certainly capable of combining for 65-70 yards a game if that is all you want to put up.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    But see, that isn't the case anymore......

    Ponder
    7/31/2011: Signed a four-year, $10.15 million contract. The deal is fully guaranteed, including a $5,888,144 signing bonus. 2013: $1,298,518, 2014: $1,760,277, 2015: Free Agent

    Kaep
    7/28/2011: Signed a four-year, $5.22 million contract. The deal contains $3.8 million guaranteed, including a $2.26 million signing bonus. 2013: $740,844, 2014: $973,766, 2015: Free Agent

    Dalton
    7/29/2011: Signed a four-year, $5.214 million contract. The deal included a $2.292 million signing bonus. 2013: $749,018 (+ $100,000 reporting bonus), 2014: $986,027 (+ $100,000 reporting bonus), 2015: Free Agent

    The madness is over. You can take a kid in the first round, and take him high, and let him grow the way he is supposed to, on the bench, making mistakes in practice instead of on the field.

    The only reason why teams are still doing it is because it does quicken the development process and it helps staff figure out if they have the right guy quicker. Believe it or not, a guy making mistakes on the field doesn't mean that he isn't their guy. He is just a kid making mistakes like all players do.

    Problem is, its at the position most fans watch or even think they understand.

    For instance, most fans think Smitty had a great year last year when the truth of the matter is he really struggled at times. If he wouldn't have graded out so well in the pass coverage area, they would have really picked up on his penalties (graded out as 78th worse out of 88) and run support (graded out as 71rst worse out of 88).

    Again, fans love the INT but don't have a clue what a S does or doesn't do right in run support.
    It's not about money & it's not that we are just seeing a bunch of anomalies at the QB level.

    Not so many years ago, you had to groom QB's a lot more than you do now. Back then college teams pounded the ball a lot more & passed less than they do now.

    Now that college football is becoming more of a passing league & play a more NFL style type of football, the college QB's are being groomed & prepared more, by better QB coaches at the college level. Thus, when they step onto an NFL field they are better prepared for the NFL than their predecessors were & a lot more is expected out of them. Especially those QB's taken in the first round. I.E. Ponder

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I read that as well, just like I read numerous ones that said he had significant issues he ad to work through to be a NFL QB. In the end, at that point I thought he was the most NFL ready (based on some of those) next to Locker. Doesn't mean they weren't considered projects. Just meant they weren't as much of a project.

    Besides, you know me, I dont' think any rookie QB is NFL ready. Some come in and catch the league by surprise because of things the do that is new, but in the end, they all wind up faltering.


    Here are the ones I had bookmarked....
    Here's the one I refer to...

    Dilfer: 'Christian Ponder is Elvis Grbac' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I read that as well, just like I read numerous ones that said he had significant issues he ad to work through to be a NFL QB. In the end, at that point I thought he was the most NFL ready (based on some of those) next to Locker. Doesn't mean they weren't considered projects. Just meant they weren't as much of a project.

    Besides, you know me, I dont' think any rookie QB is NFL ready. Some come in and catch the league by surprise because of things the do that is new, but in the end, they all wind up faltering.


    Here are the ones I had bookmarked....
    Here's the one I refer to...

    Dilfer: 'Christian Ponder is Elvis Grbac' - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN
    Solder is a dumbass. His takes are as bad as McNabb's. face it- if was ever any good we would have signed him at the end of his career to try to squeeze one last season out of him before he was put out to pasture.

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