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  1. #101
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    floop the Vikings and floop the NFL. I am sick of this pooh. Minnesota has supported the Vikings for many many years. Consecutive sellouts for something like 10 years in a row. Built them a stadium. Huge loyal fanbase buys all the crap they sell. Over that time owners and the NFL have received record profits and huge increases in value. Now with the country and state in a recession, gas prices and healthcare through the roof,unemployment increasing daily, record deficits at the federal level, federal, state, and local programs being cut for lack of funding that if they don't get a stadium now they are taking their team and leaving, floop that. And don't give me the line about we should have done this years ago, McCombs was a cheap bastard and only concerned about the bottom line.
    Show me one example where Wilf has ever said that.
    Ever.
    I can show you ten in which he says he will not move the team.
    And had the Minnesota legislators not been a bunch of dumbasses in 2005, we would have a new stadium being built for half the price.
    Yet you blame the Vikings?
    Please.

    BTW, neither the country nor the state are in a recession.
    It kills me to see how many people really don't know what a recession is.
    I agree wilf has not said that, but you yourself have said that if a stadium is not built we will lose the vikings, and I say floop that. Do you realize that if the legislature had built a stadium McCombs would still be the owner, the vikings would have no scouting department, the lowest paid coaching staff and probably team, poohie facitilities, etc. McCombs would own a team worth hundreds of millions more(he already made nearly half a billion on the team(hmm about what a stadium would have cost)).
    Plus obviously in 2005 they did not know what was going to happen in 2008, maybe you knew that construction costs would double in 5 years but most did not.
    Primarily I blame the NFL, the structure they have set up will always increase their profits while requiring fans and communities to spend more. When the Dallas and New York stadiums open for example it will increase the the average team revenue significantly further forcing the lowest teams to generate more revenue or sell.
    You are probably right about not truly being in a recession, because our GDP is not yet negative, but it is heading that way quickly.
    Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said on April 6, 2008 that "There is more than a 50 percent chance the United States could go into recession."
    In any case my point is that people are struggling to pay the bills and now many are suggesting either we take on a new bill or lose the vikings and I'm pissed about it. People are losing their houses and the vikings need a brand new fancy one with all the bells and whistles, but they can't pay for it with all the profits from the last 30 years, no they need taxpayers to foot the bill. floop that.
    With all due respect, people are losing thier homes mostly because they live beyond thier means (credit cards), refinanced thier houses to cash out on equity using a ARM and now can't refinance thier homes because they are upside down in equity.

    Has nothing to do with the econmy or hourly wages across the board.....

    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b00-0000

    Again, in most regions (there are some that are suffering) the economy is good, unimployment is low and the hourly wages continue to rise.

    Quit believing the election hype that the liberal press is spewing out..

    :
    ;D ;D
    People are losing their houses because the values are falling. If home values go up they would sell them and walk away from it with a check(as they have for the last 25 years). Many of the people losing their houses did spend too much and refinanced, made home imporvements and I am in no way saying we should give those people a hand out only that it is hurting the economy.(when consumers have less money and less credit they buy fewer things, save less, invest less, etc. ) Plus the with home prices falling it is going to hurt local tax revenues as the primary source is from property taxes which are based on property values.
    I am not sure what your employment numbers prove. They don't seem to compare anything. I know that most in any kind of home construction are hurting for work. Many manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas. The automakers have been laying off workers for a while now, airlines are doing the same.
    Also when you look at the unemployment numbers realize that they only include those who are recieving unemployment benefits, after a set amount of time those benefits run out(year or 16 months?) and that person is taken off the unemployment list even if they are still unemployed.
    Then look at healthcare. It is increasing every year, so even those working are not taking home as much. Then gas prices, at $4 a gallon many people with long commutes are spending hundreds more a month than they did just a couple of years ago. Plus we are 1 poorly placed hurricane or terrorist attack away from seeing gas skyrocket even higher. The value of the dollar is in decline, inflation is up. The US debt is over 9trillion. The military is over ext
    To say the economy is good would be laughable if you weren't serious. You just moved down a column in the ole spreadsheet my friend.
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right fucking now, I say fuck them, life will go on in the post viking world.

  2. #102
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    The economy sucks right now, and I personaly don't see it getting better soon.
    One thing my wife and I are doing now is looking to move from CT, one of the richest and most expensive States to live, in this country, to NC.
    Just to show you all a quick savings we will be rewarded with just for moving.
    Here in CT, we own a house and large lot, large for inner city that is, a little over a 1/4 acre and we pay close to
    $6,400 in taxes alone yearly....One lot and house I'm looking at now is taxed at the rate of $700 per year, and thats a full acre or land and a house that is very close to the same size home we have now.







    Sometimes in life, you have to make that move to improve your life and finances, and not wait for the Government to do it for you.






    I love the Vikings, and I love that they have always played in MN.
    If they do move, so be it, it may be the best thing for them as a Team to do at that time, I can't judge them on that.

    But no matter where they move, if they keep the
    Team Name Vikings, I'll be sure to follow them as a fan.









    JMTCW












    Ned


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  3. #103
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "Bkfldviking" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Anyways... I hear LA is beautiful this time of year.
    Sanity at last.
    Thanks C Mac
    Sanity from C Mac.
    Now I know the world's f-ed up...

    Seriously, don't some of you think you are being rather hard on a new guy?
    Give him a break and welcome him to PP.O like we should to any Vikings fans.
    All of you were newcomers here at one point, and I guarantee that all of you made at least one post that someone found to be stupid/offensive/self-promoting/etc.

    Personally, I don't think that the situation is nearly as dire as he originally stated, but that is exactly the point of having a discussion-based forum.
    So we can discuss issues related to football and the Vikings.
    If you disagree with his point of view, then tell.
    Don't bitch because you don't want to hear about it.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #104
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    floop the Vikings and floop the NFL. I am sick of this pooh. Minnesota has supported the Vikings for many many years. Consecutive sellouts for something like 10 years in a row. Built them a stadium. Huge loyal fanbase buys all the crap they sell. Over that time owners and the NFL have received record profits and huge increases in value. Now with the country and state in a recession, gas prices and healthcare through the roof,unemployment increasing daily, record deficits at the federal level, federal, state, and local programs being cut for lack of funding that if they don't get a stadium now they are taking their team and leaving, floop that. And don't give me the line about we should have done this years ago, McCombs was a cheap bastard and only concerned about the bottom line.
    Show me one example where Wilf has ever said that.
    Ever.
    I can show you ten in which he says he will not move the team.
    And had the Minnesota legislators not been a bunch of dumbasses in 2005, we would have a new stadium being built for half the price.
    Yet you blame the Vikings?
    Please.

    BTW, neither the country nor the state are in a recession.
    It kills me to see how many people really don't know what a recession is.
    I agree wilf has not said that, but you yourself have said that if a stadium is not built we will lose the vikings, and I say floop that. Do you realize that if the legislature had built a stadium McCombs would still be the owner, the vikings would have no scouting department, the lowest paid coaching staff and probably team, poohie facitilities, etc. McCombs would own a team worth hundreds of millions more(he already made nearly half a billion on the team(hmm about what a stadium would have cost)).
    Plus obviously in 2005 they did not know what was going to happen in 2008, maybe you knew that construction costs would double in 5 years but most did not.
    Primarily I blame the NFL, the structure they have set up will always increase their profits while requiring fans and communities to spend more. When the Dallas and New York stadiums open for example it will increase the the average team revenue significantly further forcing the lowest teams to generate more revenue or sell.
    You are probably right about not truly being in a recession, because our GDP is not yet negative, but it is heading that way quickly.
    Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said on April 6, 2008 that "There is more than a 50 percent chance the United States could go into recession."
    In any case my point is that people are struggling to pay the bills and now many are suggesting either we take on a new bill or lose the vikings and I'm pissed about it. People are losing their houses and the vikings need a brand new fancy one with all the bells and whistles, but they can't pay for it with all the profits from the last 30 years, no they need taxpayers to foot the bill. floop that.
    With all due respect, people are losing thier homes mostly because they live beyond thier means (credit cards), refinanced thier houses to cash out on equity using a ARM and now can't refinance thier homes because they are upside down in equity.

    Has nothing to do with the econmy or hourly wages across the board.....

    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b00-0000

    Again, in most regions (there are some that are suffering) the economy is good, unimployment is low and the hourly wages continue to rise.

    Quit believing the election hype that the liberal press is spewing out..

    :
    ;D ;D
    People are losing their houses because the values are falling. If home values go up they would sell them and walk away from it with a check(as they have for the last 25 years). Many of the people losing their houses did spend too much and refinanced, made home imporvements and I am in no way saying we should give those people a hand out only that it is hurting the economy.(when consumers have less money and less credit they buy fewer things, save less, invest less, etc. ) Plus the with home prices falling it is going to hurt local tax revenues as the primary source is from property taxes which are based on property values.
    I am not sure what your employment numbers prove. They don't seem to compare anything. I know that most in any kind of home construction are hurting for work. Many manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas. The automakers have been laying off workers for a while now, airlines are doing the same.
    Also when you look at the unemployment numbers realize that they only include those who are recieving unemployment benefits, after a set amount of time those benefits run out(year or 16 months?) and that person is taken off the unemployment list even if they are still unemployed.
    Then look at healthcare. It is increasing every year, so even those working are not taking home as much. Then gas prices, at $4 a gallon many people with long commutes are spending hundreds more a month than they did just a couple of years ago. Plus we are 1 poorly placed hurricane or terrorist attack away from seeing gas skyrocket even higher. The value of the dollar is in decline, inflation is up. The US debt is over 9trillion. The military is over ext
    To say the economy is good would be laughable if you weren't serious. You just moved down a column in the ole spreadsheet my friend.
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right fricken now, I say floop them, life will go on in the post viking world.
    All excellent points my friend that I completely agree with but you are missing my point.
    It isn't as bad as what the Dems are making it out to be.

    Sure the housing bubble has burst, but so did the .com bubble at the end of the Clinton regime. Additionally, we have lost alot of help center jobs and factory worker stuff to overseas markets but depending on were you live, new businesses are springing up everywhere to replace them and if a guy really wants to work he can, which is why the unemployment numbers are pretty damn good.

    The numbers are provided are just a snapshot of what a guy can make today to show they are going up in most areas especially the newer markets.
    Snoop around on that link.
    It really has some good info especially for people that are in a job right now that might be a dead end.

    Again, we have issues and have always had issues, but it isn't as bad as the Dems and liberal press make it out to be.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #105
    Formo's Avatar
    Formo is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right f-ing now, I say f- them, life will go on in the post viking world.
    First, as I've said before, it's not JUST a football stadium.
    That money involves the revamping of the east metro, around the Metrodome, including winter gardens and streets being redone..
    At least thats what I was led to believe, things have possibly changed since '07.
    Are you sure that Wilf wants the state to cover/commit 3/4 billion dollars?
    Or is that a guess-timate?
    I don't even think that they've even figured out how it would be payed for, much less who 'foots the bill'.
    Vegans are eating the rainforests. =(

  6. #106
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "NordicNed" wrote:
    The economy sucks right now, and I personaly don't see it getting better soon.

    One thing my wife and I are doing now is looking to move from CT, one of the richest and most expensive States to live, in this country, to NC.

    Just to show you all a quick savings we will be rewarded with just for moving.

    Here in CT, we own a house and large lot, large for inner city that is, a little over a 1/4 acre and we pay close to
    $6,400 in taxes alone yearly....One lot and house I'm looking at now is taxed at the rate of $700 per year, and thats a full acre or land and a house that is very close to the same size home we have now.









    Sometimes in life, you have to make that move to improve your life and finances, and not wait for the Government to do it for you.







    I love the Vikings, and I love that they have always played in MN.

    If they do move, so be it, it may be the best thing for them as a Team to do at that time, I can't judge them on that.

    But no matter where they move, if they keep the
    Team Name Vikings, I'll be sure to follow them as a fan.









    JMTCW













    Ned
    Which is exactly my point.
    You don't think I would love to live in MN?
    It just isn't feasible or realistic to turn down the money I make in this area just so I can be closer to family.

    At somepoint change is inevitable.
    Anyone seen the movie "Others Peoples Money"?
    I love the story about the Buggy Whip Company that Devito uses during the takeover meeting.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #107
    olson_10's Avatar
    olson_10 is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    the twins were a thread away from contraction all of 7 years ago, they still dont sell out more than one game a season (the home opener), and they were granted a new stadium no problem..they have no chance of winning a world series in the near future, and theyve also got the cheapest owner in all of sports (richest owner in MLB, spending in the middle of the pack)..they got theirs with a great sense of timing..kirby passed away, everybody rallied around the team, they started to go on a huge inspiring run, and suddenly there it is, new ballpark deal in place..the vikings will get theirs, especially if they have success this season and make a serious superbowl run
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  8. #108
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "Formo" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right f-ing now, I say f- them, life will go on in the post viking world.
    First, as I've said before, it's not JUST a football stadium.
    That money involves the revamping of the east metro, around the Metrodome, including winter gardens and streets being redone..
    At least thats what I was led to believe, things have possibly changed since '07.
    Are you sure that Wilf wants the state to cover/commit 3/4 billion dollars?
    Or is that a guess-timate?
    I don't even think that they've even figured out how it would be payed for, much less who 'foots the bill'.
    It is obviously a guess-timate, since the financing hasn't been figured out yet.
    What wilf has said is that he will contribute at least $260 million, and has opened the door for the state to begin talking about the rest.
    However, the state, like always, is pussy footing around and driving the cost up.

    jmcdon00, you say that the time to build isn't right now, and I say that it is.
    Because the longer we wait, the more it will cost.
    The Vikings are a business, and you have to expect them to operate like one.
    It would be a poor business decision for the Vikings to stay in Minneapolis another 10 years when there are other viable options out there.


    I think we can all agree that Minnesota is going to need to build a stadium.
    Losing the Vikings is a poor option, and I think that even the state legislators can see that.
    Minnesota government may learn slowly, but it still learns.
    So is it better to spend money on a stadium now, when the economy isn't in a recession, or wait four or five more years and try to spend double the aount of money when the economy is.

    It is that same argument that people were (correctly) making in 2005.
    Do it NOW before the price goes up and the economy gets worse.
    Well guess what.
    We didn't do it, and the price went up and the economy got worse...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #109
    olson_10's Avatar
    olson_10 is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Formo" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right f-ing now, I say f- them, life will go on in the post viking world.
    First, as I've said before, it's not JUST a football stadium.
    That money involves the revamping of the east metro, around the Metrodome, including winter gardens and streets being redone..
    At least thats what I was led to believe, things have possibly changed since '07.
    Are you sure that Wilf wants the state to cover/commit 3/4 billion dollars?
    Or is that a guess-timate?
    I don't even think that they've even figured out how it would be payed for, much less who 'foots the bill'.
    It is obviously a guess-timate, since the financing hasn't been figured out yet.
    What wilf has said is that he will contribute at least $260 million, and has opened the door for the state to begin talking about the rest.
    However, the state, like always, is "meow" footing around and driving the cost up.

    jmcdon00, you say that the time to build isn't right now, and I say that it is. Because the longer we wait, the more it will cost.
    The Vikings are a business, and you have to expect them to operate like one.
    It would be a poor business decision for the Vikings to stay in Minneapolis another 10 years when there are other viable options out there.


    I think we can all agree that Minnesota is going to need to build a stadium.
    Losing the Vikings is a poor option, and I think that even the state legislators can see that.
    Minnesota government may learn slowly, but it still learns.
    So is it better to spend money on a stadium now, when the economy isn't in a recession, or wait four or five more years and try to spend double the aount of money when the economy is.

    It is that same argument that people were (correctly) making in 2005.
    Do it NOW before the price goes up and the economy gets worse.
    Well guess what.
    We didn't do it, and the price went up and the economy got worse...
    exactly..if we had gotten a deal done anytime in the last 2 years, it wouldve costed half as much, and you can only project those costs to continue to skyrocket
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  10. #110
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re: Los Angeles Vikings?

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=jmcdon00 link=topic=45698.msg793020#msg793020 date=1213713403]
    floop the Vikings and floop the NFL. I am sick of this pooh. Minnesota has supported the Vikings for many many years. Consecutive sellouts for something like 10 years in a row. Built them a stadium. Huge loyal fanbase buys all the crap they sell. Over that time owners and the NFL have received record profits and huge increases in value. Now with the country and state in a recession, gas prices and healthcare through the roof,unemployment increasing daily, record deficits at the federal level, federal, state, and local programs being cut for lack of funding that if they don't get a stadium now they are taking their team and leaving, floop that. And don't give me the line about we should have done this years ago, McCombs was a cheap bastard and only concerned about the bottom line.
    Show me one example where Wilf has ever said that.
    Ever.
    I can show you ten in which he says he will not move the team.
    And had the Minnesota legislators not been a bunch of dumbasses in 2005, we would have a new stadium being built for half the price.
    Yet you blame the Vikings?
    Please.

    BTW, neither the country nor the state are in a recession.
    It kills me to see how many people really don't know what a recession is.
    I agree wilf has not said that, but you yourself have said that if a stadium is not built we will lose the vikings, and I say floop that. Do you realize that if the legislature had built a stadium McCombs would still be the owner, the vikings would have no scouting department, the lowest paid coaching staff and probably team, poohie facitilities, etc. McCombs would own a team worth hundreds of millions more(he already made nearly half a billion on the team(hmm about what a stadium would have cost)).
    Plus obviously in 2005 they did not know what was going to happen in 2008, maybe you knew that construction costs would double in 5 years but most did not.
    Primarily I blame the NFL, the structure they have set up will always increase their profits while requiring fans and communities to spend more. When the Dallas and New York stadiums open for example it will increase the the average team revenue significantly further forcing the lowest teams to generate more revenue or sell.
    You are probably right about not truly being in a recession, because our GDP is not yet negative, but it is heading that way quickly.
    Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said on April 6, 2008 that "There is more than a 50 percent chance the United States could go into recession."
    In any case my point is that people are struggling to pay the bills and now many are suggesting either we take on a new bill or lose the vikings and I'm pissed about it. People are losing their houses and the vikings need a brand new fancy one with all the bells and whistles, but they can't pay for it with all the profits from the last 30 years, no they need taxpayers to foot the bill. floop that.
    With all due respect, people are losing thier homes mostly because they live beyond thier means (credit cards), refinanced thier houses to cash out on equity using a ARM and now can't refinance thier homes because they are upside down in equity.

    Has nothing to do with the econmy or hourly wages across the board.....

    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b00-0000

    Again, in most regions (there are some that are suffering) the economy is good, unimployment is low and the hourly wages continue to rise.

    Quit believing the election hype that the liberal press is spewing out..

    :
    ;D ;D
    People are losing their houses because the values are falling. If home values go up they would sell them and walk away from it with a check(as they have for the last 25 years). Many of the people losing their houses did spend too much and refinanced, made home imporvements and I am in no way saying we should give those people a hand out only that it is hurting the economy.(when consumers have less money and less credit they buy fewer things, save less, invest less, etc. ) Plus the with home prices falling it is going to hurt local tax revenues as the primary source is from property taxes which are based on property values.
    I am not sure what your employment numbers prove. They don't seem to compare anything. I know that most in any kind of home construction are hurting for work. Many manufacturing jobs have been shipped over seas. The automakers have been laying off workers for a while now, airlines are doing the same.
    Also when you look at the unemployment numbers realize that they only include those who are recieving unemployment benefits, after a set amount of time those benefits run out(year or 16 months?) and that person is taken off the unemployment list even if they are still unemployed.
    Then look at healthcare. It is increasing every year, so even those working are not taking home as much. Then gas prices, at $4 a gallon many people with long commutes are spending hundreds more a month than they did just a couple of years ago. Plus we are 1 poorly placed hurricane or terrorist attack away from seeing gas skyrocket even higher. The value of the dollar is in decline, inflation is up. The US debt is over 9trillion. The military is over ext
    To say the economy is good would be laughable if you weren't serious. You just moved down a column in the ole spreadsheet my friend.
    I'm not saying it is hopeless and can't/won't be turned around but I don't think it is the right time to committ $750,000,000 to a football stadium, and if the vikings truly expect one right fricken now, I say floop them, life will go on in the post viking world.
    All excellent points my friend that I completely agree with but you are missing my point.
    It isn't as bad as what the Dems are making it out to be.

    Sure the housing bubble has burst, but so did the .com bubble at the end of the Clinton regime. Additionally, we have lost alot of help center jobs and factory worker stuff to overseas markets but depending on were you live, new businesses are springing up everywhere to replace them and if a guy really wants to work he can, which is why the unemployment numbers are pretty damn good.

    The numbers are provided are just a snapshot of what a guy can make today to show they are going up in most areas especially the newer markets.
    Snoop around on that link.
    It really has some good info especially for people that are in a job right now that might be a dead end.

    Again, we have issues and have always had issues, but it isn't as bad as the Dems and liberal press make it out to be.


    [/quote]
    I don't know what you are talking about. Sure you can work overnight at McDonalds, but if you are a carpenter, plumber, electrician etc.
    that probably isn't going to support your family. My brother is a union plumber, he has worked about 6 months in the last year and that was only because he was able to relocate to Florida for months at a time, most people can't. His union has 600 members in line ahead of him for job placement(he can seek employment without the union, but very few are hiring). My dad who is also a union plumber and has been with the same company for 20+ years has not had a 40 hour week in almost a year, by far the worst year since he started. I suppose they could get part time jobs, but it would certainly not pay what they are accustomed.

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