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  1. #1
    singersp's Avatar
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    A Look At Ponderís First 17 Starts

    A Look At Christian Ponderís First 17 Starts

    Read more at Minnesota Vikings: Looking At Christian Ponder's First 17 NFL Starts

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #2
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    While Ponder may never be among the elite quarterbacks in the NFL, it clearly takes some time to establish that level and it is wrong to just say he does not have what it takes to reach that point right now.
    This is the meat of that article.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

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    Webby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    This is the meat of that article.
    Agreed. He is still really sophmore year and yutzes yammering for his immediate removal don't really get how the NFL works.

    (ducking for cover)

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    VKG4LFE is offline Jersey Retired Tetris Champion, Monkey GO Happy 4 Champion
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    Does anybody really think he'll be an elite qb in the nfl? I hope so but i definitely won't be holding my breath!

    I get the most pissed off looks from people with my VKG 4 LFE Wisconsin license plate, and I LOVE IT!!

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    I don't think he will be an elite NFL QB, but it depends on your definition of elite on what you are looking for. There are really in my mind only about 4 or 5 ELITE QBs in the league right now (Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers) and a bunch of REALLY good ones (Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, etc.) ... I would be happy with just a good to very good QB ... which I think Ponder has a chance of being.

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    Reignman is offline Asst. Coach
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    Some of those guys (Favre, Peyton Manning) were from different era's, so those aren't fair comparisons. Rodgers didn't start until his 4th year in the league, so again I don't think that's a fair comparison. Ponder will never be in the same category as any of those QB's. Those are all gun slingers and Ponder doesn't have the arm strength.

    I could see him being a Gannon type player though, smart, mobile, accurate. The only problem with that is it took Gannon 12 years and 4 teams before he became a Gannon type player lol. I don't think we have the patience for that around here.

    Get him some better WR's and things could change quickly. All those other guys had some pretty good targets to throw to most of their careers.

  7. #7
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webby View Post
    Agreed. He is still really sophmore year and yutzes yammering for his immediate removal don't really get how the NFL works.

    (ducking for cover)
    Apparently that mentality has changed in the past 5 years. A lot of the ones yammering in 2007 during another QB's sophomore year, aren't yammering now & are riding the "it's only his second year" train. They never boarded it then & they weren't called yutzes then either.

    What we heard was, he already had 12 chances, how many starts does he need? 6 games used to be enough to judge a QB for many, now 17 isn't close to being enough for the same people.

    Perhaps the few of us, and there were only a few of us, who claimed a handful of games isn't enough to fairly judge a QB were right all along. You can certainly take a guess at it, but that's all it is. History has shown it can go both ways.

    We've seen QB's start out mediocre the 1st couple of years & then become fine QB's. We've also seen QB's come out & play great their 1st year or 2, then fizzle & fade.

    With Ponder we've seen mostly bubble passes to 5-7 yard passes & then the receiver doing the rest & getting the bulk of the tards on his own or the RB pounding the rock. We need to see him throwing down the field farther.

    Musgrave needs to open up the hame, loosen the reigns on Ponder & allow him to do so so we can see what we actually have.

    Dinking is only going to get us so far & defenses are already wise to our game & closing in. The road & our opponents are going to get tougher. We need to see what Ponder can do. We can't rely on ST & defensive scores to win most our games & several FG's can get wiped out quickly with a TD or 2. We are getting a lot out of our RB & Harvin, we need to get more out of Ponder, but we also need play calling that allows it.

    Release the Kraken & open up the offense!
    Last edited by singersp; 10-24-2012 at 06:43 PM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Apparently that mentality has changed in the past 5 years. A lot of the ones yammering in 2007 during another QB's sophomore year, aren't yammering now & are riding the "it's only his second year" train. They never boarded it then & they weren't called yutzes then either.

    What we heard was, he already had 12 chances, how many starts does he need? 6 games used to be enough to judge a QB for many, now 17 isn't close to being enough for the same people.

    Perhaps the few of us, and there were only a few of us, who claimed a handful of games isn't enough to fairly judge a QB were right all along. You can certainly take a guess at it, but that's all it is. History has shown it can go both ways.

    Release the Kraken & open up the offense!
    Out of curiosity, who? Who was saying that during TJacks sophomore year but is now defending Ponder in his? And to be fair, there are also some people who were very high on TJack right up until the bitter end who are being very critical of Ponder now? The inconsistencies go both ways, but still represent a minority of the people here IMHO.

    I also don't think that one rule applies to all QBs, or even all players. It is an exercise in judging potential. In the nfl there isn't the luxury of letting every single player start for two full seasons before making a decision.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #9
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Out of curiosity, who? Who was saying that during TJacks sophomore year but is now defending Ponder in his? And to be fair, there are also some people who were very high on TJack right up until the bitter end who are being very critical of Ponder now? The inconsistencies go both ways, but still represent a minority of the people here IMHO.

    I also don't think that one rule applies to all QBs, or even all players. It is an exercise in judging potential. In the nfl there isn't the luxury of letting every single player start for two full seasons before making a decision.
    Take your pick. I don't believe there's one derogatory or ridiculing comment towards Ponder in the last game thread. Most were very "polite" with their comments. He had a bad game. He'll get better. He's still young. It's only his 2nd year.

    You won't find too many polite comments like that in the 2007 threads. He was ridiculed & lambasted week in & week out by the majority, not the minority of the posters. You won't find too many comments that AD, Harvin, Walsh, ST or the defense carried Ponder in any of this years game threads. It didn't matter then that it was only his 2nd year, Childress named him the starter & that meant he had to lead the team.

    I've always been a proponent of giving a QB a couple of years worth of consecutive starts as the starter & I don't mean a handful of consecutive starts sprinkled here & there over a course of several years either.

    I'm glad they're sticking with Ponder. The Childress Administration would have had him on & off the bench last year & probably riding the pine this week. It doesn't do a young QB any good to knee-jerk him back & fourth.

    While it might be true that you may be able to judge a QB fairly in less than 2 years, especially if he turns out to be a basket case, I don't think it can be done fairly after 6 starts & certainly not after 3 starts, but we have seen it here.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #10
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    for me one of the core differences between ponder and tjack was not just where they were at.. but where the team was at.

    when tjack began his vikings run, we were a team allready built. one that was a contender, and pushing for that window to keep us in the game to the SB. hence we brought in Vets. (even the link to farve that dind't happen as he went to the jets) then to us. we're now in a known rebuilding period.. i've said this in another thread. i won't give ponder a get out of mistake free card becuase we're rebuilding, BUT as others have said. we don't also have the tools for him to be more then a dink/dunk passer.

    PH/Rudy are his top weapons.. with teams focusing on them and AP.. why are the other WR's not getting wide wide open? ponder has spread the ball around, we've seen 3 other wr's catch passes, important passes. seen even our top targets drop balls, tip balls (to be int'd). and yes even the play calling is for me something that is a work in progress.

    now i'm not sure if the knee is putting a kink in his throwing style, or if he's expecting guys to jump, mis timing, or what that is causing those sailing passes.. we've seen 3 ints that were almost identical, the others (as i dontn have a dvr) i can't really say why they happened, but for me this is something that will get worked out. cut those 3 int's out and we might have a different picture. less hacking on the guy and more talk about how a managing qb can lead us back into contention.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

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