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  1. #21
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    kevoncox wrote:
    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    I would like to address AD and zoneblocking everyone enjoys talking about...first off everyone says AD needs to wait on his blocking...At OU he had the same problem "initially" because he hits lines so quick...but instead of saying Adrian be patient... they moved him 2 yards deeper in the backfield that year...he ripped off crazy numbers and he was 2nd in the heisman running having a great year, that little 2 yards allowed the Oline to make up for his quickness( instead of saying he lacks patients its more that the line doesn't compensate for his quickness)...Hes a great talent like Jim Brown Barry Sanders....dont tell a talent of these sorts how to run .....The coaches need to shape the running game to utilize his abilities Dont try to force a square peg into a round hole and you might come out with something better than you know
    The only issue with that is
    1) We are already doing it. Take a look at games and AD is atleast 8 yards off the ball.

    2) Defenses tend to things like this on film.
    6 yard splints...pass
    9 yard splints run
    Exactly. AP usually starts off 7 yards off the LOS. What should he be, 9 or 10?

  2. #22
    V4L's Avatar
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    Yah we really can't move him back any farther

    Play calling is just too vanilla in the running department.. I think that's due to the fact we have a very new gelling line

    I hope Toby can come in and beat up on those DTs and ends and keep AD fresh to rip off some big ones in the end

  3. #23
    soonerbornNbred is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    ejmat wrote:
    kevoncox wrote:
    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    I would like to address AD and zoneblocking everyone enjoys talking about...first off everyone says AD needs to wait on his blocking...At OU he had the same problem "initially" because he hits lines so quick...but instead of saying Adrian be patient... they moved him 2 yards deeper in the backfield that year...he ripped off crazy numbers and he was 2nd in the heisman running having a great year, that little 2 yards allowed the Oline to make up for his quickness( instead of saying he lacks patients its more that the line doesn't compensate for his quickness)...Hes a great talent like Jim Brown Barry Sanders....dont tell a talent of these sorts how to run .....The coaches need to shape the running game to utilize his abilities Dont try to force a square peg into a round hole and you might come out with something better than you know
    The only issue with that is
    1) We are already doing it. Take a look at games and AD is atleast 8 yards off the ball.

    2) Defenses tend to things like this on film.
    6 yard splints...pass
    9 yard splints run
    Exactly. AP usually starts off 7 yards off the LOS. What should he be, 9 or 10?


    as long as he starts every play the same it doesnt give a clue as to run or pass....its when they telegraph it thats a problem....stay the same every play....but please dont whine about him hittin hole to soon if you dont accomodate for his initial burst, go ahead handcuff him, he will sill be a stand out ....but Rbs are a short shelve life...if his career last as long as Walters that would be great but odds are it wont You may have already seen his best

  4. #24
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    kevoncox wrote:
    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    I would like to address AD and zoneblocking everyone enjoys talking about...first off everyone says AD needs to wait on his blocking...At OU he had the same problem "initially" because he hits lines so quick...but instead of saying Adrian be patient... they moved him 2 yards deeper in the backfield that year...he ripped off crazy numbers and he was 2nd in the heisman running having a great year, that little 2 yards allowed the Oline to make up for his quickness( instead of saying he lacks patients its more that the line doesn't compensate for his quickness)...Hes a great talent like Jim Brown Barry Sanders....dont tell a talent of these sorts how to run .....The coaches need to shape the running game to utilize his abilities Dont try to force a square peg into a round hole and you might come out with something better than you know
    The only issue with that is
    1) We are already doing it. Take a look at games and AD is atleast 8 yards off the ball.

    2) Defenses tend to things like this on film.
    6 yard splints...pass
    9 yard splints run
    Exactly. AP usually starts off 7 yards off the LOS. What should he be, 9 or 10?


    as long as he starts every play the same it doesnt give a clue as to run or pass....its when they telegraph it thats a problem....stay the same every play....but please dont whine about him hittin hole to soon if you dont accomodate for his initial burst, go ahead handcuff him, he will sill be a stand out ....but Rbs are a short shelve life...if his career last as long as Walters that would be great but odds are it wont You may have already seen his best
    Again, like I said, he already starts off 7 yards behind the LOS. If you move him back another 2 like you are suggesting all that would do is give him more runs where he is tackled behind the LOS. College and the NFL are two different breeds. The players are too fast and too good to start a RB 9 yards off the LOS.

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    Mr Anderson wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Play calling.....
    Sore shoulder on Hutch......
    2nd year C.......
    Rookie RT........
    Tahi Sucks.......


    AD crotchsniffers might want to ignore this next part of my post......

    All of the above had a role in our OL's poor play last year, but AD didn't help any either. If he would learn to be just a bit more patient before he makes his first cut, I bet alot of those "Zero" gains would get yards.

    We saw it time and time again last year were AD would get stoned at the line for no loss and CT would come right in on the next play and get huge yards.

    OK, AD crotsniffers, I'm done hacking on your boy.
    I don't think Taylor gaining yards after a Peterson no-gain has anything to due with his patience or vision.

    I think that's simply the defense keying on the pass when Taylor comes in the game and keying on the run when Peterson is in the game. It's the tipping of our hand to pass or run and our offense and poor line play that's to blame.

    The predictability isn't as bad as it was in the past. Shockingly, giving a QB the ability to make adjustments at the line can get an offense out of some bad situations.


    I'm pumped for next season. Barring injury(knock on wood)I can't imagine our line play not improving.
    Good point on the predictability issue.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Play calling.....
    Sore shoulder on Hutch......
    2nd year C.......
    Rookie RT........
    Tahi Sucks.......


    AD crotchsniffers might want to ignore this next part of my post......

    All of the above had a role in our OL's poor play last year, but AD didn't help any either. If he would learn to be just a bit more patient before he makes his first cut, I bet alot of those "Zero" gains would get yards.

    We saw it time and time again last year were AD would get stoned at the line for no loss and CT would come right in on the next play and get huge yards.

    OK, AD crotsniffers, I'm done hacking on your boy.

    interesting thoughts.

    I'm curious as to why CT had a higher percentages of runs for a loss than Peterson did though...

    Lots of the time, there's simply nothing there.
    I started tracking some stuff on what CT did vs what AD did when I was looking at RB's the Vikes might draft this year.

    A few eye opening numbers.....

    AD had 315 (1394 yards) rushing attemps, CT had 93 (332). Rough numbers, a bit under 1/3 the attempts..... If CT would have been the starting back I suspect he would have had another 1,000-1,200 yard season. Again, someone has to be doing something for AD to get almost 1,400 yards rushing and CT put up pretty decent numbers in a limited role. (Fault - No one. Someone is making holes and someone is hitting them).

    Now for all of you who are gonna come back with the cliche' "AD is a beast in breaking tackles and is getting all those yards on his own".....I throw the next little tidbit out there.....

    Yards after contact per attempt.....AD 2.9/CT 2.2 = Doesn't matter were they are hit, both of them don't fair well with respect to getting extra yards after getting hit.

    This also means that there are holes for them to hit if they are just patient and wait on them. (Fault - RB Coaching Staff, not OL)

    Profootballfocus - RB stats

    In the end, both AD and CT had a "Great" year running the rock, however, they (our RB's) could even do better if would wait just a bit and let some things develop in front of them.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    ejmat wrote:
    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    kevoncox wrote:
    soonerbornNbred wrote:
    I would like to address AD and zoneblocking everyone enjoys talking about...first off everyone says AD needs to wait on his blocking...At OU he had the same problem "initially" because he hits lines so quick...but instead of saying Adrian be patient... they moved him 2 yards deeper in the backfield that year...he ripped off crazy numbers and he was 2nd in the heisman running having a great year, that little 2 yards allowed the Oline to make up for his quickness( instead of saying he lacks patients its more that the line doesn't compensate for his quickness)...Hes a great talent like Jim Brown Barry Sanders....dont tell a talent of these sorts how to run .....The coaches need to shape the running game to utilize his abilities Dont try to force a square peg into a round hole and you might come out with something better than you know
    The only issue with that is
    1) We are already doing it. Take a look at games and AD is atleast 8 yards off the ball.

    2) Defenses tend to things like this on film.
    6 yard splints...pass
    9 yard splints run
    Exactly. AP usually starts off 7 yards off the LOS. What should he be, 9 or 10?


    as long as he starts every play the same it doesnt give a clue as to run or pass....its when they telegraph it thats a problem....stay the same every play....but please dont whine about him hittin hole to soon if you dont accomodate for his initial burst, go ahead handcuff him, he will sill be a stand out ....but Rbs are a short shelve life...if his career last as long as Walters that would be great but odds are it wont You may have already seen his best
    Again, like I said, he already starts off 7 yards behind the LOS. If you move him back another 2 like you are suggesting all that would do is give him more runs where he is tackled behind the LOS. College and the NFL are two different breeds. The players are too fast and too good to start a RB 9 yards off the LOS.
    The "He lines up deep on runs/short on passes" discussion started a couple of years ago so I actually started watching this, not only for AD and the Vikes, but for all teams.

    Truth of the matter is, I could say this about almost every team.

    What fails to be mentioned about RB alignment and how deep he is and if it is tipping something off, is from a side camera angle/view that fans are presented.

    If you were looking at if from a S/CB/MLB perspective, I bet it isn't even recognized what with all the shifts (WR's/TE's etc) going on related to reading formations.

    In the end, its a good discussion point, but probably not real relevant with respect to what is going on during the limited time players have to make thier reads.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    I disagree with all this patience and predictability stuff. I'm thinking that if AD were any more patient a lot of those 0 yard losses would be 3 yard losses.

    The offensive line was terrible in the run game last year.

    I'm not alone in that view. The same site that provides the stats for the running back that started this conversation ranked the Vikings as the worst run blocking team in the NFL last year. I've knocked that sites rankings before for various reasons, but it's based on an actual play-by-play analysis and gives you at least an idea of how the team and individual players performed.

    There are a variety of reasons for this poor level of play from the line in the run game last year. I think back injuries to Hutchinson and McKinnie are likely excuses. Inexperience can always be thrown into the conversation.

    The big point is the offensive line was bad in this area and I hope it's better in 2010. Adrian Peterson is capable of averaging 5+ yards/carry behind a good line. I want to see the Vikes get back to that.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    Overlord wrote:
    I disagree with all this patience and predictability stuff. I'm thinking that if AD were any more patient a lot of those 0 yard losses would be 3 yard losses.

    The offensive line was terrible in the run game last year.

    I'm not alone in that view. The same site that provides the stats for the running back that started this conversation ranked the Vikings as the worst run blocking team in the NFL last year. I've knocked that sites rankings before for various reasons, but it's based on an actual play-by-play analysis and gives you at least an idea of how the team and individual players performed.

    There are a variety of reasons for this poor level of play from the line in the run game last year. I think back injuries to Hutchinson and McKinnie are likely excuses. Inexperience can always be thrown into the conversation.

    The big point is the offensive line was bad in this area and I hope it's better in 2010. Adrian Peterson is capable of averaging 5+ yards/carry behind a good line. I want to see the Vikes get back to that.
    Just one discussion point.....

    1394 yards/315 attemps/4.4 yards per carry......

    Someone is doing thier job someplace.....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Re:A look at Peterson's production

    Marrdro wrote:
    Overlord wrote:
    I disagree with all this patience and predictability stuff. I'm thinking that if AD were any more patient a lot of those 0 yard losses would be 3 yard losses.

    The offensive line was terrible in the run game last year.

    I'm not alone in that view. The same site that provides the stats for the running back that started this conversation ranked the Vikings as the worst run blocking team in the NFL last year. I've knocked that sites rankings before for various reasons, but it's based on an actual play-by-play analysis and gives you at least an idea of how the team and individual players performed.

    There are a variety of reasons for this poor level of play from the line in the run game last year. I think back injuries to Hutchinson and McKinnie are likely excuses. Inexperience can always be thrown into the conversation.

    The big point is the offensive line was bad in this area and I hope it's better in 2010. Adrian Peterson is capable of averaging 5+ yards/carry behind a good line. I want to see the Vikes get back to that.
    Just one discussion point.....

    1394 yards/315 attemps/4.4 yards per carry......

    Someone is doing thier job someplace.....
    Yeah. That someone is Adrian Peterson.

    And honestly, those stats aren't that great. Not the kind of stats that a back as good as AD should be putting up.

    My quick count from NFL.com is 23 players that had 4.4 yards/carry or more on over 100 carries last season. And while total yards is nice, you have to focus on that yards/carry efficiency. Yeah, 5th in total yards, but 4th in number of carries.

    Peterson averaged 5.6 yards/carry his rookie year. In 2008 he averaged 4.8 yards/carry. He's capable. Last year the line held him back.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

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