Thread: Loadholdt - Is it time to go, OR........................

Originally Posted by Marrdro

I fight the double standard, I don't support it.

You can lump all the young players on our team into 2 categories. For you "young" means at least 4 years experience or less.

1. The ones you like
2. The ones you dislike

When the ones you like don't play well, you defend them by playing the "He's young, inexperienced, learning, too early to be judged, give him more time" card.

When the ones you don't like don't play well, you harp on them & never play the "He's young, inexperienced, learning, too early to be judged, give him more time" card. In fact you lost or burned the card.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Lets not get this to far off the truth again. The Chiller did not run the drafts. Speilman did. Just like Spielman ran the scouts who went out and found the right talent to meet what type of player the coaches wanted.

What the Chiller did, much like Leslie can do and I'm sure he does) is watch the tape presented by Ricky and the crew and rack and stack the players according to who they wanted over the other candidates.

Again, the Chiller did not run the drafts.

That TOA thing is what makes everything so convoluted. Was he the last person to give the OK, did the buck stop with him, I don't know. We now have well defined jobs and now we know he is the owner of the draft be it good or bad.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

Agree that he could slim down, but seriously, how fast do you think a cat like him is going to fire off the ball?

I for one think the OL really came together this year. Were they the best? Far from it, but the were far from the worst as well. Lets see what happens next year if we can keep them together. Again, some of the RG issues affected his play. Not knowing what the RG next to you is going to do can sometimes slow you down as well.

If you mean by slowing down, standing straight up and waiting for the Dlineman to run into you then I agree. Please show me one play where he actually moved across the line of scrimmage. It may be there, I only watched about thirty to forty plays but all I ever saw was a guy trying to get out of his stance before the whistle blew. He needs to lose weight and it should be in his contract, he has gotten way too big to move, especially at this level.

Originally Posted by singersp

We can't say for sure whether he did or not. In all honesty, IMO the only thing that really changed in Spielmans move to the GM position was his official title. He now can be singled out to blame or to praise because of that title.

I agree, it is shining the light on him. He has no one else to blame now if a draft goes bad.

Originally Posted by Marrdro

No, his title did change, but he can counter Leslie if they differ on a player. If he and the Chiller differed it went to the other leg of the triad and if that didn't fix it, then the Wilfs would vote.

In essence, the only thing thats changed is Rick now breaks all tie breakers between he and the coaches.

One point in all that is the Chiller did not have the final say as Tark contends. That resided with the 3rd leg of the triad or the Wilfs.

When did I ever say Chiller had the final say? I have never even thought that, I said the TOA made everything convoluted and you really didn't know who picked the player. Now we do and he will get the credit or the blame for the drafted players.

Originally Posted by marshallvike

I agree with an earlier post somewhere on here, we should pick up a quality free agent WR and draft a receiver in the first. We also have other needs, but WR is our biggest need. A draft pick will not perform like a seasoned veteran, but will progress well if all the attention is not on him.
I however fear that next year we may take a small step backwards. It may be because the schedule looks much tougher next year or maybe it is the result of being a lifelong Viking fan. In any case I am hyped about our long term success.

Who do you feel is worth a #1 draft choice? Keep in mind we have two very good slot WRs so we would be looking to draft a true #1 receiver, who comes to mind? My choice is a G right now by the name of Warmack out of Alabama, he would make our line very dangerous and he would be a very good value pick since we are drafting at 23 I believe and I think he is a top ten talent. I may change my mind once we get feel for who is going to take who. We may know that we will be able to draft a handful of players and we can then take a better look at who we want.

Originally Posted by tarkenton10

When did I ever say Chiller had the final say? I have never even thought that, I said the TOA made everything convoluted and you really didn't know who picked the player. Now we do and he will get the credit or the blame for the drafted players.

I didn't say you said it. I just made a pr-emptive post because the discussion was starting to go down that untruthfull path.

Originally Posted by tarkenton10

If you mean by slowing down, standing straight up and waiting for the Dlineman to run into you then I agree. Please show me one play where he actually moved across the line of scrimmage. It may be there, I only watched about thirty to forty plays but all I ever saw was a guy trying to get out of his stance before the whistle blew. He needs to lose weight and it should be in his contract, he has gotten way too big to move, especially at this level.

I probably won't find any, but let me go see if I can find some. I can tell you that from the games I watched (I saw several instances) and the breakdowns they gave on the Vikes during NFC Playbook on NFLN, they highlighted him pulling and sealing the edge.

Originally Posted by tarkenton10

That TOA thing is what makes everything so convoluted. Was he the last person to give the OK, did the buck stop with him, I don't know. We now have well defined jobs and now we know he is the owner of the draft be it good or bad.

They all 3 had to agree on the player. If one didn't like him and the other 2 did, the other 2 won. Sometimes, if the one that didn't like him felt that he was being ram rodded, the ownership group came into play.

I don't think I ever saw a actual instance quoted were that happened because Spielman and the Chiller seemed to work well together. But that is the way I understood it was supposed to work.

Originally Posted by singersp

You can lump all the young players on our team into 2 categories. For you "young" means at least 4 years experience or less.

1. The ones you like
2. The ones you dislike

When the ones you like don't play well, you defend them by playing the "He's young, inexperienced, learning, too early to be judged, give him more time" card.

When the ones you don't like don't play well, you harp on them & never play the "He's young, inexperienced, learning, too early to be judged, give him more time" card. In fact you lost or burned the card.

First and foremost, I harp on all players. Yes, young and old.

Second, I always give a young (I will agree with your 4 year window) player a buy/free ride on a mistake vs a Vet when it comes to things I think they haven't had the reps to correct and the vet has.

Third, I don't think you can find me one player that has under 4 years that I've completely given up on and that includes Webb. He has had 3 years to learn the backup job and failed us when we needed him the most and should get hacked on but I blame the coaches more than him.

So don't sit there and say that I have a double standard. I don't.