Thread: Live game chat / thread
08-26-2013, 11:31 AM #31
I thought Bishop looked good. He needs to be on the field. The biggest concern was his speed coming off the injury, but I thought he was moving well. He knows what he's doing out there. The combination of Greenway, Bishop and Henderson could actually be a solid group for us.
The DL underwhelmed me, but this is one area that doesn't get me too excited in pre-season one way or the other. It's more about physical play (effort) than technique and we know what we have here, providing injuries don't become a problem.
08-26-2013, 11:41 AM #32
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Saw the game from start to end. Left with a disgusting feeling in my stomach. Is this really how the Vikings will play in the regular season?
The starters were in the game for a long period, but so many things looked bad. The quarterbacks looked awful. Kaepernick is awesome and the 49'ers are lucky to have him, wish the Vikings had him. Imagine Kaepernick and Adrian Peterson work the option-read together. Vikings should utilize Joe Webb in this way, it's obviously effective (see last playoff game against Packers).
I was not very impressed by the defense, but I saw some nice plays and I liked the goal-line stand by the backups at the end of the game. Minnesota has had one of the best goal-line defenses in the league for many years if you ask me. That reminds me, I'm getting more impressed by Bishop and Mauti. The linebackers were our weakest link by many people's opinion, but it's not. We even have good depth.
The secondary can be good if some players (*cough* Chris Cook) stays healthy. Jamarca Sanford keeps looking better and Mistral Raymond provides nice depth.
There's Still Hope!
I know last night's game looked terrible, but Vikings can still win games and the recipe is simple: feed the ball to Adrian! The offense is build to run... and alot! We have no good quarterbacks. The offensive line is build to run block, passing blocking: not so much. We even have good run blocking receivers. Teams knew we were going to rely on the run game, but still couldn't stop us. Let's just continue from where we finished last year.
08-26-2013, 02:02 PM #33
08-26-2013, 02:54 PM #34
08-26-2013, 03:28 PM #35
I think this is the hardest point for a lot of fans. If your a team that focuses on a physical style of offense featuring the running game, don't expect a lot of success in passing. Maybe counter intuitive, but I think it has proven itself over and over again. Same thing in reverse, if you focus on having a top passing offense, you will probably struggle in the running game.
Stats like Adrian Peterson had last season would likely not have been earned if the Vikings had a better passing game, but stats and ability are not one and the same. The ability to rush 2000 yards is not the same as actually rushing 2000 yards because the team cannot pass. Peterson had the ability to rush 2000 yards when Favre was here, but AP did not need to do so.
I do not believe people understand how poorly Ponder played last season. He was at a record pace for futility in passing over 15 yards. He was ranked 33 in a 32 team league for passing over 15 yards, with a QB rating far worse than any starting QB at that range, and he is getting close to the record for passes with no TD over 20 yards. He has trouble making reads, going through progressions, getting the ball out, leading receivers, and hitting the numbers on target. What more could we not ask for?
08-26-2013, 04:12 PM #36
Do you remember the worst season Peterson had in terms of yards per carry (4.4)? It was when Favre was lighting up the league in his last hurrah. We got better at passing, but worse at rushing. We were a better team, but I think you can put most of that on Favre. An elite QB trumps an elite RB, we would all like to have both.
That is all I'm saying. Yes you can be good or above average at both, but very hard to be elite at both. If you can be elite at just one aspect, then there is a good argument that you can have success. Another argument can be made that in a league that is focused on shutting down high flying passing offenses, a physical run oriented team can have it's advantages on lighter faster defenses.
Ponder and his style end up being his and our own worst enemy. What I mean by that is we have a terrific running game that causes the defense to crowd the line of scrimmage and the best way for us to take advantage of that is with a QB that can hit the deep pass and capitalize on the compact nature of the defense. It can also be done by hitting the mid depth sideline routes too but in the end it requires Ponder to make the throws he is not good at and the ones that he is good at ( close to the LOS, behind the LOS etc are tough to make because the defense is already occupying those areas so it also plays right into their strength.
I think Brett in his first year here displayed how to take the top off a defense with the mid to deep passes and that is really what is mandatory for us at the QB position. Maybe a guy that is like Big Ben, Rivers etc who have the arm strength to strike down the field. I have also said for a long time that with AP back there we would be better suited with the TD to checkdown progressions than with the LOS to deep progressions we see from this scheme.
Then again WTF, I guess this way is somehow a KAO if it is executed properly.
08-26-2013, 05:23 PM #38
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I think the Vikings can win games without a good passing game. We all saw how well it worked last season when Frazier finally said: "heck, let's just give it to AD" so why not continuing doing something that won games?
In addition, there are almost no teams in the NFL that are "balanced". Even if you are extremely lucky to have an elite running back, quarterback, and receivers. The offensive-line needs to be great at both pass and run blocking which is very rare to find as they demand almost completely opposite skills.
It also seems like offensive lines are either good pass blockers or good run blockers based on what plays the team runs. Minnesota had a great run-blocking line last year, but when Favre came to Minnesota our line suddenly looked much better pass blocking. I think this is influenced by the different mindsets of pass/run blocking and a simple thing called "practice makes perfect".
I also think that Minnesota committing to the run can be smart move in today's NFL. Most teams can only consistently win through the air and defenses today are not build to stop the run as they were before. This is an advantage for the Vikings.
By relying heavily on the run, one needs a good defense that can prevent the opponent from reaching the end-zone. Like the Bears with Walter Peyton and the feared defense. We did good in that department last year and can continue and even improve this year.
Last edited by HEY; 08-26-2013 at 05:25 PM.
08-26-2013, 07:14 PM #39Asst. Coach
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Challenging to find the positives in this pre-season.
Last night I saw a Vikings defense that could be pretty good. They should consider starting Rhodes and looking for a better nickel corner than Robinson. Bishop looked pretty good for the most part. I would start him.
I did see defensive effort over all, so that was positive.
The offense was consistently inept and didn't really get anything going until they were playing against third stringers.
I saw a shot of Ponder before the game started and he had a look of fear on his face !
Sadly, Ponder is already in mid season form! Cassel can read defenses better than Ponder, but is no better because he can't execute.
The offense without Peterson is one of the worst in the NFL.
I just have this feeling that Frazier feels AD can carry the team again this year. I never doubt Adrian, but I recall the Packers managed to contain him pretty well in the playoff game by not letting him run outside.
This year's team has enough talent to be very good, but also has the appearance of a team that could enter a tailspin. Ponder will have to pull up his britches and get the job done, starting day one. So far there is little sign of improvement from him and the excuses are beginning to wear thin.
Bust or NFL QB ? We shall soon find out.
08-27-2013, 07:33 AM #40