01-12-2011, 05:10 PM #131
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "ejmat" #1087414
Look at what happened to us. Look at how depleted our receiver corps became...with just 1 or 2 significant injuries.
And, as ejmat points out, New England never got the chance to claim him.
That means that your opinion is colored by personal bias, not relevant facts or sustainable theory...
...time to reassess.
01-12-2011, 06:20 PM #132
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "Caine" #1087418
The Pat's decisions in this whole process is not an indictment on Moss' abilities IMHO.
01-12-2011, 09:53 PM #133
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "Caine" #1087344
It is my opinion that something happened that got RM traded, similar to what happened here, except it stayed "in house". Also probably why he didn't see the field much in Tennessee.
01-13-2011, 01:03 AM #134
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1087425
I'm disappointed that we lost a 3rd round pick to bring this guy in, but not so disappointed to see him go. I don't question his skill, I question his heart and his influence on fellow players. I also think Childress owned most of the responsibility on how the whole Randy thing played out.
Frazier, just say no to Moss. You will have plenty of critics to dissect everything you are doing wrong, you don't need another one in the locker room.
01-13-2011, 01:57 PM #135
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1087435
Why would Bellichick wait until week 4? Probably looking to see who he could get to fill the hole. Remember, he signed Dieon Branch - a former Patriot star - almost immediately. So, follow the Bellichick logic:
"I have an aging player (Moss) in the final year of his deal who wants a final big contract...I'm not going to giver it to him. I see that a former player at the same position (Branch) might be available. The former player pretty much knows the offense already, he's a solid player, and I can get him cheap. So, I can ride the season with BOTH guys, or - since we can already beat everyone in the NFL - I can parlay the aging guy (Moss) into a draft pick."
Now, everything above is THEORY. I have no PROOF of any of it. But I do find it suspicious, to say the least, that Dieon Branch was signed almost IMMEDIATELY after Moss was traded. Branch had become redundant in Seattle, so Seattle moved him for a 4th rounder.
So, in the end, Bellichick wound up with a receiver that fit his scheme better, and a better draft pick, Seattle wound up with a draft pick, and Minnesota got rid of an idiot coach.
Finally, addressing the "Play when I want to play" issue...Randy has taken plays off. No one disputes that. But so has Berrian. So has Rice. So has Harvin....
..well...maybe not Harvin.
Bottom line is Receivers don't go 100% on 100% of the plays. If a play is a quick hit to the opposite side, the Receiver might put in token effort KNOWING that the ball is going to the opposite side, and that he's effectively out of the play.
Blaming Randy for "giving up on plays" is another accusation that most NFL receivers can be hit with. How many times have we seen our guys fail to get open and sort of float through the space their route ended...not even trying to make anything happen? I see that a lot.
So, does Randy REALLY "quit"? No more so than anyone else. Not really.
But what does Randy bring to the table?
From all reports, he's the perfect team mate. He practices hard. He wants to win. He's not a prima-donna "I need the ball" receiver unless the team is losing...and then it's more of a "I'll take the game on MY shoulders" type of thing.
Further, he demands coverage. Despite what Marrdro says, Moss extended the field for us....IMMEDIATELY. Without knowing Chiller's KAO. He forced Defenses to account for him. He created opportunities for our passing game. He also allowed our receivers to fall back into their more natural positions (Harvin in the slot, Berrian on the bench).
And the ONLY times that Moss has EVER spoken out against his team is in toxic situations (In Oakland during it's decline, and here when Chiller was killing us).
So I say "Bring in Moss". Give us a legitimate receiver corps for our next QB to work with. Give us time to find some O-line help, and get our team back on track.
Moss can do that.
01-13-2011, 03:57 PM #136
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coach
I think the Moss press conference on September 12, where he infered he wasn't appreciated by ownership sealed his fate with New England.
Moss went public which isn't well received by any team; but especially in New England.
I think it was a case where the Vikings called and New England couldn't pass up the deal, since they weren't likely to sign Moss again anyway.
I doubt Moss is as good as he once was, but to say he is washed up based upon his brief stay in Minnesota, with a coaching staff that didn't know how to use him, can only leave us wondering.
We have a very thin receiver corps. Randy surely would be an upgrade.“What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
01-13-2011, 05:06 PM #137
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "Caine" #1087463
IMO, he takes off way more plays than the average receiver. I think this guy needs to be on a well established franchise where players don't have the luxury of second guessing their coaches or ownership. I don't think Frazier and the Vikings is that team for this guy.
He can help somebody out, but not the Vikings right now, he needs a huge dose of humility similar to what TO received recently or he will not help this team improve.
I am always a sucker for great talent and athletic ability that Randy clearly has, but I think he needs a huge case of humility which includes lower compensation for him to see things a little clearer. He is getting a good dose of it this year, so maybe he will learn that he isn't all that anymore.
01-13-2011, 05:19 PM #138
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "tastywaves" #1087468“What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
01-13-2011, 05:56 PM #139
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coachOriginally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1087469
We also need to hire an OC (unless I missed a signing here) and identify what type of offense we plan on running next year, before signing any key guys.
01-14-2011, 12:14 AM #140
Re: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coach
[quote="tastywaves" #1087472]Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1087469
Randy has taken a lot of heat in the media...some of it justified.
On the other side of that statement is the point that some of it - in my opinion, "Much of it" - was undeserved.
No matter where he went, he was the focus of attention. Due to his incredible talent, he was a media target...and at first he complied. Then, when the media started misquoting him and started taking his statements out of context, he shut up.
Of course, that just fueled the media fire and they started nit-picking him. Everything he did was micro-analysed. Everything was rehashed, over and over, and the press just ripped him up.
Ever since then, it's been a teeter-totter between Randy and the press.
What issues did Moss have in Oakland?
How about in New England?
Truth is, many of the alleged "issues" Moss has had over the years have been grossly overblown by the media. Like "Running over the cop"...which was actually him trying to get a meter maid, who had NO AUTHORITY to block his car in traffic, to move out of his way. Or the faux-moon...Joe Buck thought it was "disgusting"...I laughed hysterically.
Randy has told off an owner twice (Told off Red *blows goats* McCombs and Al Davis) - and was right both times. Randy has blasted a Head Coach once - and was correct again. He has never been the one to START the problem, but he has always been completely HONEST when asked what he thought about it.
Randy has never gone to the Media to solve problems or self-promote. He's never been a locker room cancer like Owens. He's almost always been described as the "perfect team mate".
Oh...he yelled at a caterer once. Of course, I chewed out the drive through window clerk at McDonalds once...
My point is that Randy isn't what the headlines portray him as. Trouble is, no one is writing THAT story. Instead, they drag up every overblown story from the past and try and prove how he's a distraction, or of low character, or selfish, or something else that the FACTS simply don't show.
So I DO have a great deal of faith in Randy's "character". Randy wants a strong Head Coach...so do WE. Randy wants to work with and for people he respects...so do WE. Truth is, if Randy is a Viking again and is HAPPY about it, we KNOW we're on the right path.
He's never been wrong yet.
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