Thread: Leslie Frazier fulltime head coach

Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1087004

Straight ownage!

Yea right. It was so bad that I didn't even deem it worth a reply and you know me, I'll reply to anything. B)

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087007

Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1087004

Straight ownage!

Yea right. It was so bad that I didn't even deem it worth a reply and you know me, I'll reply to anything. B)

Best "Owned" ever!

I couldn't have said it any better myself!

And when we come into tough times next year and Frazier is calm and collective its because he has been to the Superbowl twice not because he is not into the game.

Originally Posted by "marstc09" #1087004

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1086850

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1086775

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1086769

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1086707

Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1086584

Originally Posted by "Minniman" #1086580

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1086529

There are a number of reasons I think this is a bad choice...and none of them have to do with Leslie himself. For all I know, he may wind up being a fantastic HC.

But I worry because this move leaves Zygi and Mark Wilf with their fingers in the pot. Something I have been against since day 1.

I wanted a strong FOOTBALL guy to come in and relegate the Wilfs to the owners box...sort of like Bob Kraft in New England. That's worked pretty well there...

Instead, I fear that Zygi will continue to try and be the next Jerry Jones, something that I fear will NOT work out well here.

Again, I have nothing against Leslie Frazier, and I sincerely hope he does well. But I am not happy about this move...not in the slightest.

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree to the point about not having a football person in charge. As a counterpoint, I have to ask, how many Lombardi trophies does Dallas have under the ownership of Jerry Jones? How many does Detroit have after going to a football guy as their GM? Not every team will get a Polian, Pioli, or Finks.

One could say that the Wilfs allowing so much of the football operations to be in the hands of Childress was a mistake. The Wilfs were pretty hands off when in came to his assistant coaches, schemes, and gameplans. They were hands on when asking minority owners and banks for more cash for players.

It is too early to see how this unfolds.

Yeah if the Wilf's were overly involve Childress would have been gone sooner and Moss would have been moping around in purple for a few more weeks.

While Zygi was not happy about the move he did let it playout

Yea like PatsRandy was soooooooo good. You see he finally caught his first pass this weekend since week 13.

Hack on the Chiller all you want and I won't push back much cause I had issues with him, but in the PatsRandy decision, I think he was right. The cat wasn't helping anything.

Do you have special blinders that you wear when players you decide you don't like are playing?

Moss didn't help anything?

His PRESENCE alone opened up the passing game. We were struggling horribly without a deep threat - and Berrian was showing us all just how over rated he is - when we suddenly acquired Moss. He IMMEDIATELY created opportunities for everyone else...even though Chiller hadn't worked him into the offense yet.

After only 3 weeks, and after being ignored for those 3 weeks, Chiller got his knickers in a knot because Randy told Zygi what EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD already knew...that Chiller needed to be fired, and Chiller simply cut him.

The entire "He yelled at a caterer" BS was circulated so that people with axes to grind against Moss (like you) could conveniently forget all the FACTS around the situation, and find a way to blame Moss.

The fact that Tennessee didn't use him is NOT a reflection on Moss. It's a reflection on Tennessee and their inability to stabilize their QB situation long enough to utilize one of the premier deep threats in the NFL.

Fact is, Chiller screwed us by cutting Moss. Moss was practicing hard, and he was BEGGING to be more involved in the Offense. But Chiller was too much of an egocentric retard to recognize that, all he saw was someone who didn't agree with Chiller...

The fact that you continue to try and spin this entire debacle into being Randy's fault amazes me. It is further compounded by the derogatory tag you stuck on him as evidence of just how myopic you really are when you decide you dislike a player. You did it to Favre, and you're doing it to Moss. Just hang a derogatory tag on them, spew half-truths and conjecture about them, ignore all of the relevant FACTS of every case, rinse and repeat.

You're in danger of falling off the spread-sheet.

Caine

Fact.....Our yards per carry and yards per catch went down with him on the team and it wasn't like it was hard to use him.

Hey PatsRandy, run a nine route, take two defenders with you.
Hey PatsRandy, run a eight route, take two defenders with you.

Fact.....the routes he did make catches were the intermediate/across the middle routes that we needed help with without El Syd.

Hey PatsRandy, run a 6 route. No coach, I don't like that as I have to go over the middle.

Hey PatsRandy, run a 5 route. No coach, I don't like to run those.

OK,

Hey PatsRandy, run a nine route, take two defenders with you.
Hey PatsRandy, run a eight route, take two defenders with you.


No coach. Your not listening to me. I'd better yell at the caterer and go into the owners after game party and start yelling that the HC needs to be fired.

I wonder who is wearing blinders here. Truth is, just like in TN and in Pats land, no one worried about him defensively and he had no impact. Thats why the Pats and the Chiller let him go.

Again, 1 catch since week 13. 1 catch.

Wow, when you step in it you really go all out don't you. Are you having VikingsTW look up your stats because several of your "facts" are WRONG.

Let me repeat that...you're WRONG!!!

FACT: With Moss in the lineup, our # of rushes per game INCREASED slightly (from 28.666 to 29).

FACT: The number of passes per game DECREASED slightly (from 32 per game to 28.5 per game).

FACT: Our Yards per Catch went UP (from 5.4 to 6.2).

FACT: Our 3rd down conversion percentage went UP from 33% to 43%. That's called EXTENDING DRIVES, which gives you a chance to SCORE POINTS...basic football stuff. You might want to research that a bit.

And while the yards per carry DID drop off slightly (from 4.9 to 4.3), how is that even remotely Randy's fault? Might have had a little something to do with that shitty line YOU CLAIM is so wonderful (everyone ELSE screws up, not the line, right?).

Bottom line, you're talking out your ass again. Just like with Favre, you appear have a personal axe to grind with Moss, and you will apparently stoop to any extreme - including falsifying statistic and misrepresenting the truth - in order to validate your position...

...despite the FACT that it is an indefensible one.

You know who else refused to look at things clearly and honestly?

Chiller.

Know where HE is right now?

Unemployed.

Moss still has a job.

Finally, Moss didn't go to the Owner's after party and yell anything...the owner was in the LOCKER ROOM, and Randy made the comment in passing. Quietly.

But hey, making up facts and misrepresenting the truth seems to be a new trend with you. One you should break. Quickly.

Caine

Straight ownage!

I just might start spewing drivel like that if you promise to use that kind of owned picture in response.

Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1087035

I just might start spewing drivel like that if you promise to use that kind of owned picture in response.

The goal is to further the discussion with information you might have like Caine did here and I did in the "Marty Ball" discussion.

Throwing something silly like "Owned" out there just says you don't have anything to add other than you don't agree for some reason that you can't quite articulate.

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087074

Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1087035

I just might start spewing drivel like that if you promise to use that kind of owned picture in response.

The goal is to further the discussion with information you might have like Caine did here and I did in the "Marty Ball" discussion.

Throwing something silly like "Owned" out there just says you don't have anything to add other than you don't agree for some reason that you can't quite articulate.

Or it means that your position has been so thoroughly destroyed and disproven that nothing you say from this point forward on this matter will have any traction.

:whistle:

Caine

Frazier

I wasnt overly enamored with the hire at first. My thought was that the ownership possibly settled since they are on the hook for Chiller's salary for the next few years and they had to get a decent coach at a low wage. I was championing the TOP candidate hiring like everyone else, but that just isnt reality. I think that the Vikes got a guy who really wants to do the right thing for the team and organization. So I am warming up to him. Also when you look at what he had to go through in the last 4 weeks of the season to keep the team relatively composed and competitive in those game was quite a job.

When I see that he has dismissed 3 coaches, told Bevell to get ready for a possible demotion, to me that's progress. The two candidates who he has in town for interviews gives me more hope. This is what the offseason is about especially after a bad season. Building hope.

While Singletary and McDaniels didnt fare as well as head coaches, they were good position coaches and coordinators. Singletary's defense wasnt the issue in SF, and McDaniels offense wasnt the issue in Denver. I would say that there issues were more of trying to run the whole team. Leslie's calm influence, I think, will make this work. Overall I like what we have done so far and how Leslie is changing the direction, seemingly.

I could be totally wrong, but given the season we just finished, a shakeup was needed.

As to the draft. While we desperately need a QB I hope we don't reach in round 1 for a guy if it isnt someone who we LOVE. With Luck out, Mallet and Gabbert are the two highest rated. I was high on Mallet before but after the Sugar Bowl he lacked showing any touch on his passes. Gabbert, I am just not sold. The scouting department is far better at evaluating talent than I am. I just hope that we dont have a knee jerk reaction and take a guy, who may not work (A LA Tarvaris).

16 weeks til the draft.........

Get the CBA done boys and lets play ball next year!

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1087075

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087074

Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1087035

I just might start spewing drivel like that if you promise to use that kind of owned picture in response.

The goal is to further the discussion with information you might have like Caine did here and I did in the "Marty Ball" discussion.

Throwing something silly like "Owned" out there just says you don't have anything to add other than you don't agree for some reason that you can't quite articulate.

Or it means that your position has been so thoroughly destroyed and disproven that nothing you say from this point forward on this matter will have any traction.

:whistle:

Caine

No way my friend. Lets recap what you said.....

FACT: With Moss in the lineup, our # of rushes per game INCREASED slightly (from 28.666 to 29).

FACT: The number of passes per game DECREASED slightly (from 32 per game to 28.5 per game).

FACT: Our Yards per Catch went UP (from 5.4 to 6.2).

FACT: Our 3rd down conversion percentage went UP from 33% to 43%. That's called EXTENDING DRIVES, which gives you a chance to SCORE POINTS...basic football stuff. You might want to research that a bit.

I said that the talking heads said our passing and rushing yards per attempt went down. You admitted to the rushing stat being correct, but dodged the passing stat by throwing in a bunch of other stats that don't even have to do with yards per catch avg and came up with some yards per catch avg that I don't know were you got it from.

And while the yards per carry DID drop off slightly (from 4.9 to 4.3), how is that even remotely Randy's fault? Might have had a little something to do with that shitty line YOU CLAIM is so wonderful (everyone ELSE screws up, not the line, right?).

Mixed in all that was the lame comment "How is that Randy's fault?" when in fact it isn't his fault, but rather it is an indication that he wasn't taking extra guys with him which should have helped with the yards per run avg based on the numbers that "Wouldn't" be in the box, which by the way, was the primary discussion point.

Then above all, you came with the "Talking out of my ass comment tied to the Noodle".......So I just basically ignored you so I wouldn't have to respond to stuff that you just threw out there, not germaine to the discussion, to include the poke about the Noodle.

Just my attempt at being nice.

In the end, come with something that doesn't refute my discussion point (which you didn't) and I will reply......:P

On a side note, whats funniest is that you had people buying into that crap you spewed just cause you threw out numbers to the point they completely missed the running comments.

Originally Posted by Marrdro" #1087077][quote="Caine" #1087075][quote="Marrdro" #1087074][quote="Purple Floyd" #1087035]
I just might start spewing drivel like that if you promise to use that kind of owned picture in response.[/quote]
The goal is to further the discussion with information you might have like Caine did here and I did in the "Marty Ball" discussion.

Throwing something silly like "Owned" out there just says you don't have anything to add other than you don't agree for some reason that you can't quite articulate. ;)[/quote]

Or it means that your position has been so thoroughly destroyed and disproven that nothing you say from this point forward on this matter will have any traction.

:whistle:

Caine[/quote]
No way my friend. Lets recap what you said.....

[quote]FACT: With Moss in the lineup, our # of rushes per game INCREASED slightly (from 28.666 to 29).

FACT: The number of passes per game DECREASED slightly (from 32 per game to 28.5 per game).

FACT: Our Yards per Catch went UP (from 5.4 to 6.2).

FACT: Our 3rd down conversion percentage went UP from 33% to 43%. That's called EXTENDING DRIVES, which gives you a chance to SCORE POINTS...basic football stuff. You might want to research that a bit.

[/quote]

I said that the talking heads said our passing and rushing yards per attempt went down. You admitted to the rushing stat being correct, [b]but dodged the passing stat by throwing in a bunch of other stats that don't even have to do with yards per catch avg [/b]and came up with some yards per catch avg that I don't know were you got it from.[/quote]

Ummm...I think if you look again at what I posted, .you'll clearly see where I address the yards per pass stat. You recopied it above. It's labeled "YARDS PER CATCH".

So, if I posted the actual Yards per catch, that isn't dodging the yards per catch comment...that's addressing it directly and refuting it completely.

And, further, you never said anything about "talking heads" making these claims, you listed them as FACTS!!! in fact, you made them stand out from teh comments by placing period spacers behind them to highlight the FACT that you were expressing them as FACTS.....when in FACT they were bullshit, as I proved by posting the ACTUAL FACTS.

But keep spinning...

[quote="Marrdro" #1087077][quote="Caine

And while the yards per carry DID drop off slightly (from 4.9 to 4.3), how is that even remotely Randy's fault? Might have had a little something to do with that shitty line YOU CLAIM is so wonderful (everyone ELSE screws up, not the line, right?).

Mixed in all that was the lame comment "How is that Randy's fault?" when in fact it isn't his fault, but rather it is an indication that he wasn't taking extra guys with him which should have helped with the yards per run avg based on the numbers that "Wouldn't" be in the box, which by the way, was the primary discussion point.[/quote]

I didn't say he was here to address the running game, I stated that he opened up the PASSING game...which he DID (evidenced by the INCREASE in Yards per Catch...you know, that stat you were WRONG about taht you claim I didn't address.)

And no, the running game was NOT the primary point in the discussion...or we would have been addressing Peterson and the line. The Primary Point in the Discussion was your assertion about Moss that - and this is your exact quote - "The cat wasn't helping anything.

But keep trying to redefine what was said and how it was meant...isn't that what VikingsTW used to do?

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087077

Then above all, you came with the "Talking out of my ass comment tied to the Noodle".......So I just basically ignored you so I wouldn't have to respond to stuff that you just threw out there, not germaine to the discussion, to include the poke about the Noodle.

Just my attempt at being nice.

No, just your attempt to save face because the position you had taken was - once again - completely and totally disproven by every measurable statistic...and the stats YOU presented in defense of your position turned out to be WRONG.

You know me, I'm not afraid of a knock down drag out - especially when it involves FACTS. I LOVE facts. So pretending to be trying to be nice is an empty gesture, and you know it. The truth is, your facts were bullshit, I called you on it, and added more FACTS which disproved your position...and your rebuttal is "I was trying to be nice".

I guess I find it more helpful to be RIGHT than NICE. Especially when taking a position where you are bashing someone.

Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1087077

In the end, come with something that doesn't refute my discussion point (which you didn't) and I will reply......:P

On a side note, whats funniest is that you had people buying into that crap you spewed just cause you threw out numbers to the point they completely missed the running comments.

Or, you just conveniently ignored the numbers taht were "thrown out there" because they disproved your position.

I'll illustrate.

A: The increase in the number of carries per game, couples with the decrease in the number of passes per game, indicates that Moss was NOT being the demanding prima-donna receiver, and that Favre was not taking over games - something YOU have stated repeatedly. It shows, instead, that the balance between run and pass was favoring the RUN. It further indicates that the predominant flaw in the Running game was one of the 3 following issues:

1: Poor play selection.

2: Adrian Peterson not performing.

3: The Line not performing.

(I lean heavily towards #3).

But, again, none of this indicates a problem with Moss or Favre, and cannot be used as a valid measurement of the effectiveness of either player - despite your apparent wish to do so.

B: The increase in Yards per Catch (You know, that stat I "ignored"...despite having posted it) indicates that one of two things was happening.

1: Favre was hitting receivers deeper.

2: Receivers were making plays after the catch.

I suspect a combination of the two. Regardless, this also indicates that, either way, Moss WAS having a positive effect because either HE was stretching the field, or he was drawing coverage AWAY from others (Like Harvin) and allowing them to maximize their opportunities.

C: Our 3rd down conversion rate went UP from 35% to 45%. That's HUGE!!!! That means that more drives were sustained, or that we were able to drive deeper into the enemy territory. This began almost IMMEDIATELY after acquiring Moss. Coincidence? I highly doubt it.

BOTTOM LINE, despite you not LIKING the refuting facts I posted (Which were actual facts, not incorrect assumptions like your alleged facts), it in no way, shape, or form invalidates them. Nor does your claim that they don't address your intended talking point (despite them clearly doing so) alter the FACT that your claim that Moss did not help our offense is completely and PROVABLY WRONG!!!

But you tune that out due to your hatred of Moss. Just like you tune out anything positive about Favre, or anything negative about Jackson or Childress. You have lost your objectivity here, and are basing your responses upon emotion, not fact.

Fact is, it's the name calling (Noodle, PatsRandy) that offends me most. For someone claiming to want to "foster discussion" all you're really doing in engaging in school yard taunting. It indicates that you are NOT being objective, you are being subjective...and your subjective conclusions are flawed. Yet, any time that is pointed out, you attempt rewrite history and change the rules of the conversation.

Sorry. Doesn't work like that.

Caine

Originally Posted by "Caine" #1087088

And, further, you never said anything about "talking heads" making these claims, you listed them as FACTS!!! in fact, you made them stand out from teh comments by placing period spacers behind them to highlight the FACT that you were expressing them as FACTS.....when in FACT they were bullshit, as I proved by posting the ACTUAL FACTS.

LOL. Great post my friend. Couple of things....

I have used that stat line several times since PatsRandy was let loose. In almost all circumstances, if memory serves I said it was a talking head stat. I know you've seen it.

I hope to all that is holy that the chucleheads on TV would put up good numbers. If they don't, I can't be held liable. :P

A: The increase in the number of carries per game, couples with the decrease in the number of passes per game, indicates that Moss was NOT being the demanding prima-donna receiver, and that Favre was not taking over games - something YOU have stated repeatedly.

Were have I repeatedly stated that? I think your listening to i_bleed a bit or you are misunderstanding my discussion point like has of late.

You know me, I'm not afraid of a knock down drag out -

Why does everything have to be a knock down drag out. I'd love to watch what happens around the water cooler were you work.

In the end, PatsRandy didn't help the offenses he was on this year. The Pats agreed, atleast the Chiller agreed and it appears that (juding by the one catch since week 13 and how CJ was beeyyyatching) the Titans agree.

My guess, he won't even be on a team next year, unless of course he can find a team that just wants his name to sell tickets cause he sure can't get open anymore.

On a side note. I don't hate football players, for the last time. Thats like saying I hate Mel Gibson or Charlize Theron for goodness sakes. Thier entertainers. If they entertain bad, I turn them off (well not the Vikes) or critique them but I surely don't hate them.

Good lord how many times do I have to say that?:huh: