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  1. #1
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Leber, over rated?

    I was just on NFL.com checking up on some stats when I realized....

    Ben Leber only made 46 tackles all season. That's less than half as many as EJ Henderson and Antoine Winfield.

    Players with more:
    EJ Henderson-109
    Antoine Winfield-97
    Fred Smoot-61 (Supposedly the worst tackler on the team)
    Napoleon Harris-59
    Dwight Smith-78
    Darren Sharper-67

    None of those guys are big tacklers either, a LB should definitely make more than all of them.

    Players with the same number of tackles:
    Darrion Scott-46

    A defensive end who wasn't even supposed to start this year made more tackles.

    Players with less(obviously not all of them, but ones with a lot of playing time and a number relatively close to his):
    Pat Williams-44
    Cedric Griffin-41
    Kevin Williams-36
    Kenechi Udeze-29
    Kevin Williams-36


    I understand he made some big plays this year(3 sacks, an interception, 2 fumble recoveries and a td) but EJ had 3 sacks, 2 ints, 2 fumble recoveries, and a TD.

    I didn;t think I'd be saying this, but I think Leber is the weak link of our linebackers, and with Chad Greenway coming back next year, I don't see Leber in the starting lineup.


    Fred Smoot made more tackles.............Fred Smoot.

  2. #2
    PurplePeopleEaters's Avatar
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    If you think that numbers tell the truth then go ahead and call for his head. I, on the other hand, do not think that his numbers reflect his play this season. He stopped most everything that came his way. Fred Smoot's stats are overblown in the tackle category because he ended up tackling the receiver that burned him in coverage.

    I see no problem with Leber right now and I doubt the coaching staff seems a problem either. I do, however, think that he will be replaced by Greenway with time and we will bring in a middle linebacker to move into the middle sometime in the next 2 years.

  3. #3
    aceclown is offline Coach
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    Put it this way- Leber didnt make or break our D this season.


    Chuch.

  4. #4
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    Review the game tapes, his stats maybe do not reflect it, but he had a stellar season.
    Most times, he was the one who redirected whoever had the ball on the opposing "O" and was one of the few that come to mind that ever actually got pressure on the QB.

  5. #5
    sirweeze's Avatar
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    unspectacular... i think everyone knew what the vikings were getting when they signed leber.
    no surprises.
    i cant say im exactly disappointed with his stats

  6. #6
    PurplePackerEater is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    Well, he was underrated coming in, so I guess it's even.

  7. #7
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

    Fred Smoot's stats are overblown in the tackle category because he ended up tackling the receiver that burned him in coverage.
    I don't think his stats are overblown anymore than anyone elses. Winfield gave up a good share of catches this year himself for big first downs.

    Exactly what is your definition of getting "burned"?

    It happened in some instances earlier in the season, but Smoot had a good year. Only 4 of his tackles were assists, meaning he had 57 solo tackles.

    33 of EJ's tackles were assists, 14 of Winfields were, 16 assists for Sharper & Smith with Leber having 12.

    What the stats don't tell you is how many catchable passes were defended vs how many tackles or knocked away balls there were as a result of those passes.

    In the passing game, I would rather have a DB or LB who can knock the ball away from the receiver for an incomplete pass 90% of the time with just a handfull of tackles vs a DB or LB who gives up 90% completions & then makes the tackle & has a high season tackle count on the year as a result of it.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #8
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    Yea, I can see Greenway taking his spot...Leber is a run stopper not that great in pass coverage.

    Maybe he free'd up alot of people fot their tackles...I dunno.

    All I know is I saw how friendly he was with Favre on that Thrusday night game after Leber's holding call...I didn't like it.

  9. #9
    PurplePeopleEaters's Avatar
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    "singersp" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

    Fred Smoot's stats are overblown in the tackle category because he ended up tackling the receiver that burned him in coverage.
    I don't think his stats are overblown anymore than anyone elses. Winfield gave up a good share of catches this year himself for big first downs.

    Exactly what is your definition of getting "burned"?

    It happened in some instances earlier in the season, but Smoot had a good year. Only 4 of his tackles were assists, meaning he had 57 solo tackles.

    33 of EJ's tackles were assists, 14 of Winfields were, 16 assists for Sharper & Smith with Leber having 12.

    What the stats don't tell you is how many catchable passes were defended vs how many tackles or knocked away balls there were as a result of those passes.

    In the passing game, I would rather have a DB or LB who can knock the ball away from the receiver for an incomplete pass 90% of the time with just a handfull of tackles vs a DB or LB who gives up 90% completions & then makes the tackle & has a high season tackle count on the year as a result of it.

    I'm not arguing that smoot had a bad year, just that his stats get overblown as you mentioned in the last paragraph. He doesn't knock the ball away. There were games this year like the bills game where the other team would throw the receiver that smoot was covering half the time and he would get an assist or a tackle. No need to say something like "Smoot got more tackles than him? SMOOT? "

  10. #10
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Leber, over rated?

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:

    Fred Smoot's stats are overblown in the tackle category because he ended up tackling the receiver that burned him in coverage.
    I don't think his stats are overblown anymore than anyone elses. Winfield gave up a good share of catches this year himself for big first downs.

    Exactly what is your definition of getting "burned"?

    It happened in some instances earlier in the season, but Smoot had a good year. Only 4 of his tackles were assists, meaning he had 57 solo tackles.

    33 of EJ's tackles were assists, 14 of Winfields were, 16 assists for Sharper & Smith with Leber having 12.

    What the stats don't tell you is how many catchable passes were defended vs how many tackles or knocked away balls there were as a result of those passes.

    In the passing game, I would rather have a DB or LB who can knock the ball away from the receiver for an incomplete pass 90% of the time with just a handfull of tackles vs a DB or LB who gives up 90% completions & then makes the tackle & has a high season tackle count on the year as a result of it.

    I'm not arguing that smoot had a bad year, just that his stats get overblown as you mentioned in the last paragraph. He doesn't knock the ball away. There were games this year like the bills game where the other team would throw the receiver that smoot was covering half the time and he would get an assist or a tackle. No need to say something like "Smoot got more tackles than him? SMOOT? "
    Rarely did Smoot get an assisted tackle. Again, he only had 4 assists all year.

    But you also touched on another point I wanted to bring up about stats being over rated or not telling the whole story.

    A DB cannot have a high tackle count at the end of the year if 90% of all passes are thrown on the opposite side of the field or to receivers that are in someone elses zone. Those DB's will have more opportunities to make tackles because the brunt of the passes are going their direction.

    It also stands to reason that if the majority of run plays are run in Hendersons direction & not Leber's, EJ stands the chance of having a higher season tackle count.


    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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