Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 34
  1. #21
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    5,139

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085469
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085421
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085414
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085396
    And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

    Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.
    I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

    1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
    2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

    Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

    Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

    We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)


    That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
    But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

    Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

    I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.

    After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

    We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

    But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

    So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

    Caine
    Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

    I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

    I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)
    You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

    My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

    Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


    ...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

    Caine
    The team chemistry went out the window when the FO pukes didn't sign players that needed to be signed and awarded a certain player an extra 4 mil for skipping camp.

    Mix in the double standard that we saw as a result of that and whatever chemistry we had the previous year was gone, just like the players who have been taking the season off have been gone.

    Again, you take over half of your roster and run them out there with little or no sign that you want them there and they will play like it and it doesn't matter who thier HC is or is gonna be. All they are concerned about is getting through the year and getting the hell out of here to a place that will give them that sense of security.
    I don't see it that way.

    If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

    Teams that WIN have heart.

    Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

    Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

    Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

    So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

    Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

    Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

    Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

    It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

    That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

    That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

    That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

    We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

    Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

    But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

    Caine

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,909

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    [quote="Infidel" #1085493]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085471
    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1085423
    It's quite likely that things will go better, not worse, next year........if the QB situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner and we can pick up a couple of O-Linemen.
    Did you look at the list? We need to pick up more than a QB and a couple of OLmen.
    First things first.

    And I didn't say "Pick up" a QB. I said we need to resolve the QB situation in a satisfactory manner.

    That could be a lot more complicated than "Picking up."

    Getting rid of Childress was the biggest accomplishment.

    I think now that Childress is gone we'll have a respectable season next year with more wins than this year.

    Maybe surprise a lot of people.....we still have talent at a lot of positions.....it's just a matter of coaching and staying healthy.
    Way to step off the deep end with that one. Heck, even after the Chiller gutted the team we had 6 wins. It isn't like its that hard to do.

    The question is, how much talent will we still have after the mass exodus. My guess, we will loose at least 19 players this offseason.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,947

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    I think that's unlikely, even if it does happen it won't make a lot of difference.

    Some of the new players will be better than the old players.
    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  4. #24
    Mark_The_Viking is offline Asst. Coach
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Portsmouth UK
    Posts
    654

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085498
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085469
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085421
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085414
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085396
    And for every Free Agent that walks, you have the opportunity to sign another one.

    Face it, we're a crap team right now. We can't really blame all of our woes on injury. We have to recognize that the CORE guys, the one's we were all so fired up on, have failed to perform.
    I hear ya and agree, however, I feel that two things happen when you see a team have a mass exodus like this...

    1. You loose the team chemistry and consistency associated with the time those players spent getting to know each other.
    2. Teams will overpay and wind up with just a few quality FA's. Those FA's will also contribute to the inconsistency because they don't know the system or the players they are now working with.

    Shanc is a prime example of that. It isn't like he found talent. He always had it. He just needed to figure things out.

    Will we have a 53 man roster? Sure, but we won't have the consistency if we were to retain all but a select few. Teams like the Steelers and Pats let that select few go, promote from within which keeps them consistent.

    We are not only going to loose alot of good players, we are also going to loose a few we would normally promote from within. (if that makes sense)


    That said, there are a handful of guys who haven't failed. Greenway and Leber head that list IMO. Rice is there, but with questions...is he durable enough? Can he reproduce his '09 season?
    But will they stay? I like to think that there is still a bit of loyalty out there, however, I am a realist. Chads, Syds, Bens agents are going to advise them to go were they will be able to meet the escalators that will be in thier contracts.

    Teams that are inconsistent aren't really conduscive to meeting those incentives.

    I really really really am worried about how this organization will be percieved by the agents representing not only the players on our roster but players out there that we might want to come join the roster.

    After that, it becomes a series of guys who can contribute, but the world doesn't stop turning if they're gone. So we sign the ones we can get VALUE from, and let the rest go.

    We'll probably keep the DB's, because there's such a shortage of good ones. And Robison is a solid contributor.

    But that also depends upon their asking price. Almost no one on that list is a deal breaker/must sign guy except Greenway.

    So keeping Leslie on the assumption that he will be able to resign these guys is piling a mistake on top of a mistake.

    Caine
    Good stuff and I agree, but in the end it isn't what we want to keep, its gonna be who of them will want to stay.

    I think its pretty evident that Edwards will leave. Thats ok cause we have a backup that looks ready. El Syds move to get his surgery later rather than sooner is an indicator that I think his agent is advising him to move on. I think Chad will be loyal. Again, I might be a bit naive in that regard. Lineman are short, I bet Cook moves on as well. If nothing else he has proven to be a good swing man. Abdullah came on strong this year and could garner a nice check, etc etc etc.

    I know you don't see the talent the way I do, but I think its there and other teams are just waiting to snatch it up. (Sad crying emoticon)
    You talk about chemistry...but where was it all season? Our team came back virtually INTACT from a 12-4 season that heartbreakingly ended in New Orleans at teh NFC Championship...and proceeded to suck royally. Chemistry couldn't have been the problem...maybe it was talent?

    My point is that while I agree that many teams DO over pay in FA, we don't have to follow that model. Whomever our new HC is will have to find his core guys and build around them. Greenway is a great one to build around. So is Peterson. Rice? Not so much. Harvin? Not so much.

    Next season will hurt, most likely. I do NOT look for a quick turnaround on being a Superbowl caliber team. I think it will take a few years to repair the holes AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...


    ...but a lot of factors remain undefined. The primary one is WHO the new HC will be...and until we answer THAT question and find out what scheme he's going to run, everything else is moot.

    Caine
    The team chemistry went out the window when the FO pukes didn't sign players that needed to be signed and awarded a certain player an extra 4 mil for skipping camp.

    Mix in the double standard that we saw as a result of that and whatever chemistry we had the previous year was gone, just like the players who have been taking the season off have been gone.

    Again, you take over half of your roster and run them out there with little or no sign that you want them there and they will play like it and it doesn't matter who thier HC is or is gonna be. All they are concerned about is getting through the year and getting the hell out of here to a place that will give them that sense of security.
    I don't see it that way.

    If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

    Teams that WIN have heart.

    Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

    Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

    Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

    So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

    Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

    Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

    Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

    It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

    That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

    That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

    That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

    We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

    Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

    But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

    Caine
    +1

    If money drives you then get lost as far asI'm concerned, we need players who leave it on the field week in week out a la Ray Lewis, AP.

    The draft will be a very challenging situation for us next year, will we go for a QB? who knows?
    Purple till i die

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,909

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085498
    I don't see it that way.

    If these guys are purely playing for a paycheck, then they have no heart anyway.

    Teams that WIN have heart.

    Teams that win SUPERBOWLS have heart...unless you're the Pittsburgh Steelers and you have the Officials in your pocket...

    Bottom line, I don't think that PROFESSIONAL football players are really going to tank their season because their heading into free agency.

    Ask anyone who plays or played football...the BEST way to get hurt is to try NOT getting hurt.

    So to say that our teams chemistry was destroyed by failure to dole out contracts is - to me - a smoke screen.

    Our team chemistry evaporated when the players forgot that they were a part of the process, and not the center of the universe. Ray Edwards bitching about his contract erodes chemistry...not because of the contract, but because of his continued WHINING. Ray made himself bigger than the TEAM.

    Is that the FO's fault? I don't think so. That goes directly on the shoulders of the PLAYERS. Ray got paid more money this season than you and I will likely ever make in our combined lives...why is he bitching?

    Chemistry is supposed to transcend those petty elements...but when players start becoming bigger than the TEAM, chemistry fails.

    It also doesn't help that Sydney Rice waits to have surgery.

    That Percy Harvin keeps getting pasted with migraines.

    That Bryant McKinnie sucks.

    That the COACH begged a retired QB to come back AGAIN...

    We were not a TEAM this season - not on Offense. We were a collection of underperforming individuals.

    Defensively...I doubt Ray alone tanked the squad, but he was part of the problem.

    But, again, I don't blame the Front Office for that...I blame the PLAYERS. They're supposed to be professional. They're supposed to be motivated by the goal to win championships. And if they're not, if money is their only motivation, then they're not the type of players we need, and CHEMISTRY will be hard to develop with them regardless.

    Caine
    I think there are very few players who play for anything but a check. I put Chad in that group.

    El Syd, Ray, those are two that are here for a check. Time will tell but I think Percy will be in the later group as well. AD, although he has heart, will go get the big bucks as well. Probably be advised by his agent to move onto a team in a bigger market.

    In the end, you have to keep them happy for them to play. The only way you do that is to pay them, be consistent with your leadership style so they know what to expect and keep enough talent around to win.

    Hate to say it, but heart has very little to do with it my friend. Our team is underperforming, but it doesn't have anything to do with heart. It has everything to do with players protecting themselves so they can cash in were someone will pay them.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,909

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1085504
    I think that's unlikely, even if it does happen it won't make a lot of difference.

    Some of the new players will be better than the old players.
    Agree. Everson is gonna make us say "Ray who". Guion impresses me more each and every play. We need someone who can play beside him.

    Much like Griff, Asher is a gamer who also gets better each game. Jasper is ready to step in as is Erin.

    Problem is, those guys are all gonna still make mistakes that will cause us to see inconsistency that you wouldn't see if you had a more seasoned vet on the field.

    A team can get by with one or two on each side of the ball, but the numbers we might see next year will be akin to what we saw in 2006 and 2007.

    Case in point Griff. Most hated that kid, now when he was finally coming around, he is gone do to injury again. I see Asher and Cook as the same kinds of players.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    23,179

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Why wouldn't we want to be in last at this point?

  8. #28
    Infidel is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,947

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    There's this aversion to losing to the Lions.

    It's degrading.

    It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
    --John Wooden

  9. #29
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    23,179

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Infidel" #1085515
    There's this aversion to losing to the Lions.

    It's degrading.

    Meh Packers lost to them and their fans still think they are Super Bowl bound.

    Speaking of Packers fans, where have they been lately. They sure are quiet.

  10. #30
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,909

    Re: Last place the Vikings want to be is in last

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mark_The_Viking" #1085505
    +1

    If money drives you then get lost as far asI'm concerned, we need players who leave it on the field week in week out a la Ray Lewis, AP.
    Not a big fan of Ray Lewis. I think he should be in jail for murder, or atleast conspiracy, however........

    Ray gets paid. I wonder what he would be like if he was getting lowballed by the organization come contrat time.

    What will your opinion be of AD if he elects to leave for bigger money?

    The draft will be a very challenging situation for us next year, will we go for a QB? who knows?
    Agree. I think it will be the most interesting draft from a Vikings organization standpoint than we've seen since we had 2 first rounders in 2007.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Vikings place DT Kenderick Allen on IR
    By singersp in forum Vikings Offseason/Draft/FA Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-20-2008, 03:10 PM
  2. SECOND place Vikings....
    By packmanxxxi in forum Trash the Pack
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 12-19-2004, 10:34 AM
  3. The Vikings ARE in first place.
    By so-cal vike in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-04-2004, 07:42 PM
  4. SECOND place Vikings 2
    By packmanxxxi in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-30-2004, 06:53 PM
  5. In So. Cal on biz, need place to watch Vikings
    By AngloVike in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-07-2002, 03:03 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •