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  1. #21
    digital420's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    on the whole franchise qb idea..

    in the modern nfl, i don't believe that 1 person qb included can make or break a team

    you could have kurt w.. and if you had say chicago's wr's would he have made it where he did?


    or lets say that Tjack gains consistency.. and finds his groove with BB, PH, Rice, and company.. AP goes the distance as he does with CT bruising his way. why would we need a star?
    i'd give up flare for consitancy any day of the week.. even if it was for 14 short plays as long as there is a score of 7 coming out of it.

    last year was every1's ... this is the year we prove Tjack.. he actually played well in the later half of the year. simple mistakes from the Oline, play calling, and even tjack himself caused us to falter in the end. now we have supposedly raised our O players. added another threat.. i think that having that solid middle combo of shianco/PH
    and BB/Rice outside.. with AP/CT
    is a recipe for success.. even in a vanilla wco as long as we have a consistent qb.. even if he never reaches the ProBowl

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  2. #22
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I don't understand the talk about not needing a Franchise QB to win it all. Getting to the Superbowl is near impossible without one. There have been a few teams that have done it but it usually requires a HISTORIC defense to do so. The problem with being a "ball control offense"
    is that if any team get up by 1 you are in trouble. We need an offense that is equally skilled in the pass and run. It's the only way to do it and it's the only gameplan that can keep defenses honest. In the playoffs teams are going to try and stop what we do best and make the other aspect of the offense beat us. We saw that vs. Philly and we lost. We kept Mcnabb in check almost all game long and it took one screen play to put the game out of reach. They stopped the runa nd we had nothing but three and outs. We need an top flight QB to make WIN the superbowl. A QB like TJ will only freeze up when our unbeatable run game is beaten.
    I've had this argument with you before and admittedly, we differed more on how good our defense was than if TJ could lead us to the promise land. Nonetheless, we are making strides to make our offense balanced. A QB like TJ will hopefully get there, given time.

    What I find mroe worrisome is:
    - The window is closing. Depending on youngsters like Sullivan and Johnson might be what actually kills us.
    - If the TJ project is finally declared a failure, we have JDB waiting in the wings! Oh wait, he has generated zero hype, at all. I would rather trade up to take a top QB next year than wait for the JDB project.
    Why is the window closing?
    Because it's cold in Minnesota.
    I got ya.


    I thought it was some kindof silly idea that this team was built to win now and would then go away with no more infusion of young talent or FA's over time to keep it competitive or something lame like that.

    :
    I can't expect rookies to come in and play like pro-bowlers right away. As guys like Birk, Sharper, Winny, and PWill start to show age, it won't be that easy replacing them.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  3. #23
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51689.msg942179#msg942179 date=1241059930]
    I don't understand the talk about not needing a Franchise QB to win it all. Getting to the Superbowl is near impossible without one. There have been a few teams that have done it but it usually requires a HISTORIC defense to do so. The problem with being a "ball control offense"
    is that if any team get up by 1 you are in trouble. We need an offense that is equally skilled in the pass and run. It's the only way to do it and it's the only gameplan that can keep defenses honest. In the playoffs teams are going to try and stop what we do best and make the other aspect of the offense beat us. We saw that vs. Philly and we lost. We kept Mcnabb in check almost all game long and it took one screen play to put the game out of reach. They stopped the runa nd we had nothing but three and outs. We need an top flight QB to make WIN the superbowl. A QB like TJ will only freeze up when our unbeatable run game is beaten.
    I've had this argument with you before and admittedly, we differed more on how good our defense was than if TJ could lead us to the promise land. Nonetheless, we are making strides to make our offense balanced. A QB like TJ will hopefully get there, given time.

    What I find mroe worrisome is:
    - The window is closing. Depending on youngsters like Sullivan and Johnson might be what actually kills us.
    - If the TJ project is finally declared a failure, we have JDB waiting in the wings! Oh wait, he has generated zero hype, at all. I would rather trade up to take a top QB next year than wait for the JDB project.
    Why is the window closing?
    Because it's cold in Minnesota.
    I got ya.


    I thought it was some kindof silly idea that this team was built to win now and would then go away with no more infusion of young talent or FA's over time to keep it competitive or something lame like that.

    :
    I can't expect rookies to come in and play like pro-bowlers right away. As guys like Birk, Sharper, Winny, and PWill start to show age, it won't be that easy replacing them.
    [/quote]

    That's why you draft depth, not starters... so they can sit on the bench and get situational play time for 2 or 3 years while being mentored by a Pro Bowler so when they do step in full time they do so at a
    high level of play.
    Sullivan and T John are both 2nd year players.
    Ideally you'd like them to be 3rd year but the previous regime wasn't great at drafting and put us in a hole for our first few drafts.
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  4. #24
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=51689.msg942194#msg942194 date=1241060872]
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51689.msg942179#msg942179 date=1241059930]
    I don't understand the talk about not needing a Franchise QB to win it all. Getting to the Superbowl is near impossible without one. There have been a few teams that have done it but it usually requires a HISTORIC defense to do so. The problem with being a "ball control offense"
    is that if any team get up by 1 you are in trouble. We need an offense that is equally skilled in the pass and run. It's the only way to do it and it's the only gameplan that can keep defenses honest. In the playoffs teams are going to try and stop what we do best and make the other aspect of the offense beat us. We saw that vs. Philly and we lost. We kept Mcnabb in check almost all game long and it took one screen play to put the game out of reach. They stopped the runa nd we had nothing but three and outs. We need an top flight QB to make WIN the superbowl. A QB like TJ will only freeze up when our unbeatable run game is beaten.
    I've had this argument with you before and admittedly, we differed more on how good our defense was than if TJ could lead us to the promise land. Nonetheless, we are making strides to make our offense balanced. A QB like TJ will hopefully get there, given time.

    What I find mroe worrisome is:
    - The window is closing. Depending on youngsters like Sullivan and Johnson might be what actually kills us.
    - If the TJ project is finally declared a failure, we have JDB waiting in the wings! Oh wait, he has generated zero hype, at all. I would rather trade up to take a top QB next year than wait for the JDB project.
    Why is the window closing?
    Because it's cold in Minnesota.
    I got ya.


    I thought it was some kindof silly idea that this team was built to win now and would then go away with no more infusion of young talent or FA's over time to keep it competitive or something lame like that.

    :
    I can't expect rookies to come in and play like pro-bowlers right away. As guys like Birk, Sharper, Winny, and PWill start to show age, it won't be that easy replacing them.
    [/quote]

    That's why you draft depth, not starters... so they can sit on the bench and get situational play time for 2 or 3 years while being mentored by a Pro Bowler so when they do step in full time they do so at a
    high level of play.
    Sullivan and T John are both 2nd year players.
    Ideally you'd like them to be 3rd year but the previous regime wasn't great at drafting and put us in a hole for our first few drafts.
    [/quote]

    Great strategy, but in the end, it's still the draft. It's still a crapshoot. I hope we can turn out talent to replace all of those guys, but it's unlikely.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=51689.msg942179#msg942179 date=1241059930]
    I don't understand the talk about not needing a Franchise QB to win it all. Getting to the Superbowl is near impossible without one. There have been a few teams that have done it but it usually requires a HISTORIC defense to do so. The problem with being a "ball control offense"
    is that if any team get up by 1 you are in trouble. We need an offense that is equally skilled in the pass and run. It's the only way to do it and it's the only gameplan that can keep defenses honest. In the playoffs teams are going to try and stop what we do best and make the other aspect of the offense beat us. We saw that vs. Philly and we lost. We kept Mcnabb in check almost all game long and it took one screen play to put the game out of reach. They stopped the runa nd we had nothing but three and outs. We need an top flight QB to make WIN the superbowl. A QB like TJ will only freeze up when our unbeatable run game is beaten.
    I've had this argument with you before and admittedly, we differed more on how good our defense was than if TJ could lead us to the promise land. Nonetheless, we are making strides to make our offense balanced. A QB like TJ will hopefully get there, given time.

    What I find mroe worrisome is:
    - The window is closing. Depending on youngsters like Sullivan and Johnson might be what actually kills us.
    - If the TJ project is finally declared a failure, we have JDB waiting in the wings! Oh wait, he has generated zero hype, at all. I would rather trade up to take a top QB next year than wait for the JDB project.
    Why is the window closing?
    Because it's cold in Minnesota.
    I got ya.


    I thought it was some kindof silly idea that this team was built to win now and would then go away with no more infusion of young talent or FA's over time to keep it competitive or something lame like that.

    :
    I can't expect rookies to come in and play like pro-bowlers right away. As guys like Birk, Sharper, Winny, and PWill start to show age, it won't be that easy replacing them.
    [/quote]
    I hear ya, however, if everyone does thier job someone should be waiting in the wings and ready to step in.


    Is it a concern when good players leave, yes, but teams like the Steeler, Patriots, Colts etc have consistently shown the ability to plug and play with youngsters with limited drop off.
    And were that happened, they just plug in a FA vet or two.

    As I've said before, I really like what this staff has done to put a talented group on the field and I believe they will continue to improve/add talent for many years to come which kindof negates the whole "Built to Win Now" mentality.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    PurpleTide's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009


    Man this auther is beating a new path isn't he. Tired retreads of the same old same ol'. Personnelly I think this is the make or break year for Tarvaris, and I believe he wins the starting spot over Sage. We have taken steps to improve QB protection, and to give the QB another playmaker. Harvin will be the key, with a healthy Sidney, Berrian, Shianco and the best rushing attack we will be more dynamic on offense, with Harvin drawing that eight man out of the box creating favorable mismatches we will see the continue's maturation of Tarvaris.

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "PurpleTide" wrote:

    Man this auther is beating a new path isn't he. Tired retreads of the same old same ol'. Personnelly I think this is the make or break year for Tarvaris, and I believe he wins the starting spot over Sage. We have taken steps to improve QB protection, and to give the QB another playmaker. Harvin will be the key, with a healthy Sidney, Berrian, Shianco and the best rushing attack we will be more dynamic on offense, with Harvin drawing that eight man out of the box creating favorable mismatches we will see the continue's maturation of Tarvaris.
    Some very good points.
    One comment though, I've heard several coaches (now talking heads) say how teams have to be able to run when there are 8 in the box.
    It isn't a new thing.

    My guess is PL might have been brought in to help with that effort.


    Can you imagine him or Herrera sealing the edge with Sully or Hutch getting around to lead block on the backer?
    Go ahead, put 8 in the box.
    Gonna run on your assssssssss.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "PurpleTide" wrote:

    Man this auther is beating a new path isn't he. Tired retreads of the same old same ol'. Personnelly I think this is the make or break year for Tarvaris, and I believe he wins the starting spot over Sage. We have taken steps to improve QB protection, and to give the QB another playmaker. Harvin will be the key, with a healthy Sidney, Berrian, Shianco and the best rushing attack we will be more dynamic on offense, with Harvin drawing that eight man out of the box creating favorable mismatches we will see the continue's maturation of Tarvaris.
    Some very good points.
    One comment though, I've heard several coaches (now talking heads) say how teams have to be able to run when there are 8 in the box.
    It isn't a new thing.

    My guess is PL might have been brought in to help with that effort.


    Can you imagine him or Herrera sealing the edge with Sully or Hutch getting around to lead block on the backer?
    Go ahead, put 8 in the box.
    Gonna run on your assssssssss.

    ;D
    On... over... through... we don't care... Herrera can be mean and nasty... Hutch, definitely nasty... McK we know has a nasty streak (though he can't use the pole on the field right?)... I've heard Load has that nasty streak... hopefully they'll all rub off on Sulli... 5 big ass nasty O Line men who want to do nothing more then knock a defender down and step on them as they move to the next level.
    That's football!
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  9. #29
    mountainviking's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    Hell Yeah!!
    Running Right Down Your Throats!!!
    Just wait till the play action fake puts Harvin in 1-1 streaking downfield!!
    ;D

    Seriously though, just another blame the QB article, when its really only part of the picture! To me, its kind of a, Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?
    Type of question...

    Particularly striking on game film of the loss was the predictability and simplicity of Minnesota's passing game. Coach Brad Childress and his offensive staff restricted Jackson's reading of progressions. The route combinations only attacked half the field, and as the game progressed, the Eagles' defense was able to anticipate plays based on personnel and formations. This was reflected in the Eagles' high blitz numbers -- they attacked on almost 50 percent of Minnesota's pass plays. Clearly, in a critical playoff game at home, the Vikings' passing game was overmatched due to their [s]quarterback's[/s] coach's?
    Offensive Scheme's? limitations.
    Not so clear to me!
    So, I tried to fix it...With them blitzing over 50% and us having no plan to attack it nor open WRs, WTF was Jackson supposed to do!?
    IF we're holding back the offense that much for the QB then what chance are we giving him??????
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  10. #30
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of franchise QB could vanquish Vikings in 2009

    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Hell Yeah!!
    Running Right Down Your Throats!!!
    Just wait till the play action fake puts Harvin in 1-1 streaking downfield!!

    ;D

    Seriously though, just another blame the QB article, when its really only part of the picture! To me, its kind of a, Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?
    Type of question...

    Particularly striking on game film of the loss was the predictability and simplicity of Minnesota's passing game. Coach Brad Childress and his offensive staff restricted Jackson's reading of progressions. The route combinations only attacked half the field, and as the game progressed, the Eagles' defense was able to anticipate plays based on personnel and formations. This was reflected in the Eagles' high blitz numbers -- they attacked on almost 50 percent of Minnesota's pass plays. Clearly, in a critical playoff game at home, the Vikings' passing game was overmatched due to their [s]quarterback's[/s] coach's?
    Offensive Scheme's? limitations.
    Not so clear to me!
    So, I tried to fix it...With them blitzing over 50% and us having no plan to attack it nor open WRs, WTF was Jackson supposed to do!?
    IF we're holding back the offense that much for the QB then what chance are we giving him??????
    I'll take Harvin against any NB in the league.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

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