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  1. #1
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    Hi folks. We have seen this all season so far. Here's what I mean.

    1. Lack of consistant mixture of play calls to keep opposing teams guessing more. If I can tell when it's a run you know the defense knows also. Always running AD and C.Tay into stone walls of 8 in the Box is a waste of energy and is a sure way to get a RB stepped on...landed on wierd...and hurt.

    2. No Imagination or better use of Tallent might be a better term. Why do we rarely throw to AD or Taylor with Swings/Screens or even passes down field? Why do we never shovel pass or direct snap to the RB or try other forms of deception? It's always a straight handoff left or right.

    3. Lack of Consistant O-line play....even at home and against weaker defensive lines.

    4. Lack of Consistant QB play. Yes....He's young but he's gonna grow a lot older come playoff time unless he starts making better choices and decisions.

    5. Lack of Consistant personnel availability. Maybe Durability is a better term. What's up with Winfield's shoulder...Sidney Rice ankle...Where was T. Williamson?? Injuries can't be faulted...they happen...but some luck from Asgard to stay healthy would be nice. The point is we could use everybody we have down the stretch and I hope these guys can make it back and play well. Playoff Contenders are Usually blessed with a Healthy Squad in the stretch.

    6. Rolling the Dice. Ok....we decided (The Punter/Kicker) to play to the only strength the Bears have by kicking to Hester. It didn't hurt us. ....but with that said...It was not wise. Making wise choices and playing away from opponent strengths is the prudent choice. Obviously special teams worked hard all week on containment and it showed....so job well done to coaches and players in that area.

    7. Lack of consistant TE and WR play. They might catch it....They might not? Always on the edge and never seem comfortable to me. (Nice Catch by Kliensausser last night) Why not more often?

    8. Lack of Kick Return Weapon?? OK...Is Bobby Wade the best we have to return punts?? Where's Memo? Why isn't Allison involved more on returns as well?

    Every team in the NFL has one or two Ugly wins. Even the Pats have had a couple. Of course you take the W and move on. The poblem is we have had way to many of these and in almost everyone Consistancy of performance from play calling to execution at positions has been the culpret. To make the playoffs and win in the Playoffs we simply must find a way to be consistantly good in all areas of the game. I will grant some of this is due to the fact we have so many young players out there.

    I am ultra positive about the fact that these guys are growing/learning fast and making strides in many positive areas. We can only be better/stronger next season for this and I acknowledge and appreciate the effort these young players like T.Jack are making. However, the bottom line is this. None of the other teams we will play give a hoot about it and will esploit it to there advantage down the road. So if the inconsistant play rears it's UGLY head in this stretch again we should be prepared for the consequences.


    Cheers!

    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  2. #2
    purplepowered is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    I am soo with you....I feel this is where Chilly needs to let Darell Bevell make the calls. Chilly has a great offense scheme. But makes the worng calls. When Bevell call them we have a better chance. I was calling most of the plays last night as before they happened. I could see it when I watched the players come out and they lined up. I also know that Rice doesnt work well when he is in motion. You have to just put him in the long ball or in the slot and run him putting him in motion as far as I know doesnt do much for him. You could see the Bears putting 8 in the box all night and in the first half it worked. Job done well and I feel if Bollinger didnt come in We might not have gotten in with the TD. I feel that made them 2nd guess quickly. TJack still did well and I am in no way knocking TJakc because he is our QB for the future and dont want to ever get rid of him
    I am THE #1 Sidney Rice #18 Fan ever! Don't Be surprised when this kid IS a superstar! He is humble, smart, tough, talented and has alot of character! Takes alot of pride in his work, team, fans and life. Watch out for this kid! I think he is awesome! Everytime he touches the ball its MAGIC!

  3. #3
    vikes2456's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    Honestly, I'm just hoping we make the playoffs, I really don't expect us to go further than the wildcard round. But a playoff birth alone I think would help the team in large ways. The players will (hopefully) be more inspired for next year, and catapult us to becoming a force to be reckoned with for years to come.

  4. #4
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    1. Lack of consistant mixture of play calls to keep opposing teams guessing more. If I can tell when it's a run you know the defense knows also. Always running AD and C.Tay into stone walls of 8 in the Box is a waste of energy and is a sure way to get a RB stepped on...landed on wierd...and hurt.
    My friend, in case you haven't noticed, any football team is predictable.
    Watch any game and I bet you can tell if it is gonna be a run or a pass based on personnel, down and distance and time left on the clock.


    Our staff does a pretty good job in my book of playcalling based on the experience level on the filed.

    Additionally, have you ever heard of the cliche, "establish the run and keep at it even if it isn't working to keep them honest".
    It is basic football 101 to keep running when you aren't getting yards.
    Eventually you will convince them you are gonna run, or you will start to get yards, but more importantly, like we say last night, the passing game will be open.

    Unfortunately for us, most of the time we passed our OL provided crappy coverage.
    Mix that with a very "green" (Nice word) QB and you will see issues with play calling/selection/execution.


    2. No Imagination or better use of Tallent might be a better term. Why do we rarely throw to AD or Taylor with Swings/Screens or even passes down field? Why do we never shovel pass or direct snap to the RB or try other forms of deception? It's always a straight handoff left or right.
    Again, it all comes back to what can your team execute.
    I saw at least 2 of them last night (I don't have my game notes with me) but predominatly our OL pass blocking makes it imperative that extra blockers stay in, taking away the RB screen as an option that can be relied on.

    As for a direct snap to the RB.
    :
    I don't like gadget plays much, especially those.
    The RB has to be close to the line to ensure the snap is successfull precluding any real chance to read the blocks.
    I for one, like a quick handoff to the up back (FB) if you want to catch them off gaurd a bit.

    3. Lack of Consistant O-line play....even at home and against weaker defensive lines.
    I still say this is our biggest issue with this offense.
    When the OL blocked last night we had decent runs and some pretty effective passes.
    Some/most of this can be directly related to how Matt Birk makes his pre-snap reads and then the onus falls to the QB to make pre-snap adjustments/reads for the RB's.

    Again, QB and C need to figure this thing out or we won't go very far.

    4. Lack of Consistant QB play. Yes....He's young but he's gonna grow a lot older come playoff time unless he starts making better choices and decisions.
    I have been a bit hard on TJ of late, however, I do think that you can really look and see that he has had only 2 really bad games (Lions first game/Last nights game) based on his experience level and the complexity of the offense.

    As you stated he has grown, however, not fast enough for my liking, however, most of that growth is also skewed a bit (again) by poor OL play.
    He does pretty good in his role if and when he isn't pressured much.

    5. Lack of Consistant personnel availability. Maybe Durability is a better term. What's up with Winfield's shoulder...Sidney Rice ankle...Where was T. Williamson?? Injuries can't be faulted...they happen...but some luck from Asgard to stay healthy would be nice. The point is we could use everybody we have down the stretch and I hope these guys can make it back and play well. Playoff Contenders are Usually blessed with a Healthy Squad in the stretch.
    Have you looked at the injury report on the web.
    Almost all teams are going through this either now or at some point of the year.
    It is the nature of the beast.

    Whats more important is the fact that we have had pretty decent play (except at QB) from the guys that are next in line to step up.
    The coaching staff should be commended for that as well as those guys tapped to fill in.

    6. Rolling the Dice. Ok....we decided (The Punter/Kicker) to play to the only strength the Bears have by kicking to Hester. It didn't hurt us. ....but with that said...It was not wise. Making wise choices and playing away from opponent strengths is the prudent choice. Obviously special teams worked hard all week on containment and it showed....so job well done to coaches and players in that area.
    I think a couple of times we were forced to kick to him when we really didn't want to (bad snap) (Long field because of penalty).
    In the other cases the squip and directional kicking worked pretty good.

    In case you didn't notice, he didn't have that good of a night (0 TD's and no impact to the game) even when he was on offense.


    7. Lack of consistant TE and WR play. They might catch it....They might not? Always on the edge and never seem comfortable to me. (Nice Catch by Kliensausser last night) Why not more often?
    I kindof disagree in a way.
    Our WR's, TE's and Backs for that matter have done a pretty fair job of catching balls when they had decent passes (and a few bad ones for that matter) thrown to them.
    B-wade had a very solid night when we needed him with 70 yards or so I think.
    TJ had his most productive night (yards wise) of his career.


    Again, I attribute alot of our Passing woes to the QB and OL positions.
    When/if those two entities get thier collective act together our passing isn't that bad.
    When/if they don't, we can't pass.


    8. Lack of Kick Return Weapon?? OK...Is Bobby Wade the best we have to return punts?? Where's Memo? Why isn't Allison involved more on returns as well?
    I've said this before and I will re-iterate it here.
    Who is tapped to do both is based on players needed to fill out the game day roster.
    In this instance we needed more Secondary and DL players active than we needed WR and RB's.
    End result, no Memo on the roster and I saw Allison return (or atleast try to) last night along with B-wade.

    Granted B-wade isn't a Hester but hell, no one is.
    He made pretty solid decisions (all but one anyways) in his return duties and we didn't give the ball up because of a fumble.


    Every team in the NFL has one or two Ugly wins. Even the Pats have had a couple. Of course you take the W and move on. The poblem is we have had way to many of these and in almost everyone Consistancy of performance from play calling to execution at positions has been the culpret. To make the playoffs and win in the Playoffs we simply must find a way to be consistantly good in all areas of the game. I will grant some of this is due to the fact we have so many young players out there.

    I am ultra positive about the fact that these guys are growing/learning fast and making strides in many positive areas. We can only be better/stronger next season for this and I acknowledge and appreciate the effort these young players like T.Jack are making. However, the bottom line is this. None of the other teams we will play give a hoot about it and will esploit it to there advantage down the road. So if the inconsistant play rears it's UGLY head in this stretch again we should be prepared for the consequences.
    You pretty much answer your own question in your second paragraph.

    They are learning and growing, however, they still have alot to learn and some growing to do. Almost everyone of the young guys played flawlessly last night.
    Props to them and the Coaches, however, 1 Vet (Birk) and 1 youngster (TJ) almost gave the game away.

    Luckily they both overcame thier early flaws, pulled it together with a fine performance by our Defense and won the game.

    Long story short, a win is a win, we are still in serious contention for a playoff spot and who the hell would have thunk that coming into this season or 6 weeks ago for that matter.

    Very nice post by the way.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #5
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    "purplepowered" wrote:
    I am soo with you....I feel this is where Chilly needs to let Darell Bevell make the calls. Chilly has a great offense scheme. But makes the worng calls. When Bevell call them we have a better chance. I was calling most of the plays last night as before they happened. I could see it when I watched the players come out and they lined up. I also know that Rice doesnt work well when he is in motion. You have to just put him in the long ball or in the slot and run him putting him in motion as far as I know doesnt do much for him. You could see the Bears putting 8 in the box all night and in the first half it worked. Job done well and I feel if Bollinger didnt come in We might not have gotten in with the TD. I feel that made them 2nd guess quickly. TJack still did well and I am in no way knocking TJakc because he is our QB for the future and dont want to ever get rid of him
    Not trying to rip you or be to harsh here but I need some help/clarification from you.

    When, if at all, do you see the Chiller calling plays my friend.

    I saw several occasions when the Chiller was doing other things (ie. working the refs, grabbing a player coming off the field, or just standing there reading his play sheet not moving his mouth) when plays were being called in.

    Based on that and the fact that we were told by the Staff that Bevell would be calling the plays, I assume that is what is happening.

    Why do you insist that he is doing otherwise?
    What are you seeing that I'm not?
    :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #6
    Frostbite is offline Coach
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    Thanks Marrdro...Wow...You make some great counter points and debate comebacks in your reply post. A lot to consider. I tend to agree somewhat with most of them to some degree. I still think we could be more imaginative and less predictable....Or perhaps be more willing to explore might be a better term. We seem to come back to same pond of Alligator Gars instead of looking to a new fishing hole for fresh catches....By that I mean we don't seem to have any other play options for AD from T.Jack except run left or run right by direct Handoff.

    Our O-coordinator is making big bucks to win by any means possible....so far it's been by fewest means available...at least in my view. You are correct that most of the top teams run the same plays, but I notice that most of the upper level teams make adjustments when needed to and open up the play book more when other things are not working well. I have not seen our O-coordinator be able to do that much yet.

    We are in total sink about the O-line.

    Thanks for making the use of Player personel more understandable to me as well. I didn't know Memo was inactive etc.

    Cheers!
    Where is Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

  7. #7
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    Thanks Marrdro...Wow...You make some great counter points and debate comebacks in your reply post. A lot to consider. I tend to agree somewhat with most of them to some degree. I still think we could be more imaginative and less predictable....Or perhaps be more willing to explore might be a better term. We seem to come back to same pond of Alligator Gars instead of looking to a new fishing hole for fresh catches....By that I mean we don't seem to have any other play options for AD from T.Jack except run left or run right by direct Handoff.

    Our O-coordinator is making big bucks to win by any means possible....so far it's been by fewest means available...at least in my view. You are correct that most of the top teams run the same plays, but I notice that most of the upper level teams make adjustments when needed to and open up the play book more when other things are not working well. I have not seen our O-coordinator be able to do that much yet.

    We are in total sink about the O-line.

    Thanks for making the use of Player personel more understandable to me as well. I didn't know Memo was inactive etc.

    Cheers!
    No problem my friend.
    I hover on this page just waiting for someone to make a good post like yours to discuss.


    Most fun I have had all day.
    ;D
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  8. #8
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    "Frostbite" wrote:
    Hi folks. We have seen this all season so far. Here's what I mean.
    1. Lack of consistant mixture of play calls to keep opposing teams guessing more. If I can tell when it's a run you know the defense knows also. Always running AD and C.Tay into stone walls of 8 in the Box is a waste of energy and is a sure way to get a RB stepped on...landed on wierd...and hurt.
    We can run against 8 in the box when we use the 2 TE set. We need more of that

    2. No Imagination or better use of Tallent might be a better term. Why do we rarely throw to AD or Taylor with Swings/Screens or even passes down field? Why do we never shovel pass or direct snap to the RB or try other forms of deception? It's always a straight handoff left or right.
    I would love to see more screens to the RB

    3. Lack of Consistant O-line play....even at home and against weaker defensive lines.
    Yes, we have pretty much hashed this one to death

    4. Lack of Consistant QB play. Yes....He's young but he's gonna grow a lot older come playoff time unless he starts making better choices and decisions.
    It's too late to change this situation. We just need to pull the plays he can't make out of the playbook and play fundamental,smash mouth football and start kicking some asses

    5. Lack of Consistant personnel availability. Maybe Durability is a better term. What's up with Winfield's shoulder...Sidney Rice ankle...Where was T. Williamson?? Injuries can't be faulted...they happen...but some luck from Asgard to stay healthy would be nice. The point is we could use everybody we have down the stretch and I hope these guys can make it back and play well. Playoff Contenders are Usually blessed with a Healthy Squad in the stretch.
    Injuries happen to every team. When they happen late in the season it may be attributed to practices that take too much out of the players, poor conditioning or bad luck. Teams that have numerous season ending injuries to key players generally have a hard time in the postseason

    6. Rolling the Dice. Ok....we decided (The Punter/Kicker) to play to the only strength the Bears have by kicking to Hester. It didn't hurt us. ....but with that said...It was not wise. Making wise choices and playing away from opponent strengths is the prudent choice. Obviously special teams worked hard all week on containment and it showed....so job well done to coaches and players in that area.
    You can punt the ball away from him easier than kicking it away. If you kick away from him(to the sideline) and the ball goes out of bounds, they get great field position.That hurts our defense who is pretty banged up.

    7. Lack of consistant TE and WR play. They might catch it....They might not? Always on the edge and never seem comfortable to me. (Nice Catch by Kliensausser last night) Why not more often?
    That is on the staff. They brought in the guys they wanted and they are in charge of putting them in a position to win. If there is no way to put them in a position to win,then they made the wrong choice in bringing them in.

    8. Lack of Kick Return Weapon?? OK...Is Bobby Wade the best we have to return punts?? Where's Memo? Why isn't Allison involved more on returns as well?
    I don't know the answer but I have seen Allison get very gunshy before getting hit so I am not that high on him doing returns even if he has shown a flash of ability once


    Every team in the NFL has one or two Ugly wins. Even the Pats have had a couple. Of course you take the W and move on. The poblem is we have had way to many of these and in almost everyone Consistancy of performance from play calling to execution at positions has been the culpret. To make the playoffs and win in the Playoffs we simply must find a way to be consistantly good in all areas of the game. I will grant some of this is due to the fact we have so many young players out there.
    But these ugly wins are replacing ugly losses. The fact that they are winning games they used to lose is a sign of improvement. Yes, more needs to happen and hopefully they can address it.


    I am ultra positive about the fact that these guys are growing/learning fast and making strides in many positive areas. We can only be better/stronger next season for this and I acknowledge and appreciate the effort these young players like T.Jack are making. However, the bottom line is this. None of the other teams we will play give a hoot about it and will esploit it to there advantage down the road. So if the inconsistant play rears it's UGLY head in this stretch again we should be prepared for the consequences.
    Personally if it is between McNabb and keeping TJ and watching him develop I will take TJ every day. If we do not address the WR and line deficiencies plus find a TE that can make plays we have no reason to bring in another QB.I am prepared to watch more ugly wins and another loss if we learn from it and grow as a team. If we start to regress then changes will be necessary.

    Cheers!
    Ditto


  9. #9
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "purplepowered" wrote:
    I am soo with you....I feel this is where Chilly needs to let Darell Bevell make the calls. Chilly has a great offense scheme. But makes the worng calls. When Bevell call them we have a better chance. I was calling most of the plays last night as before they happened. I could see it when I watched the players come out and they lined up. I also know that Rice doesnt work well when he is in motion. You have to just put him in the long ball or in the slot and run him putting him in motion as far as I know doesnt do much for him. You could see the Bears putting 8 in the box all night and in the first half it worked. Job done well and I feel if Bollinger didnt come in We might not have gotten in with the TD. I feel that made them 2nd guess quickly. TJack still did well and I am in no way knocking TJakc because he is our QB for the future and dont want to ever get rid of him
    Not trying to rip you or be to harsh here but I need some help/clarification from you.

    When, if at all, do you see the Chiller calling plays my friend.

    I saw several occasions when the Chiller was doing other things (ie. working the refs, grabbing a player coming off the field, or just standing there reading his play sheet not moving his mouth) when plays were being called in.

    Based on that and the fact that we were told by the Staff that Bevell would be calling the plays, I assume that is what is happening.

    Why do you insist that he is doing otherwise?
    What are you seeing that I'm not? :
    When we are offense and he is flipping over his laminated sheet with the plays on it and talking into his headset, is he just conferencing with Bevell as he is writing on that sheet or is he telling Bevell what to call? It looks like he is giving orders but it could be that he is ordering pizza from a menu ;D

  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Lack Of Consistant Top Play Will Hurt Come Playoffs

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "purplepowered" wrote:
    I am soo with you....I feel this is where Chilly needs to let Darell Bevell make the calls. Chilly has a great offense scheme. But makes the worng calls. When Bevell call them we have a better chance. I was calling most of the plays last night as before they happened. I could see it when I watched the players come out and they lined up. I also know that Rice doesnt work well when he is in motion. You have to just put him in the long ball or in the slot and run him putting him in motion as far as I know doesnt do much for him. You could see the Bears putting 8 in the box all night and in the first half it worked. Job done well and I feel if Bollinger didnt come in We might not have gotten in with the TD. I feel that made them 2nd guess quickly. TJack still did well and I am in no way knocking TJakc because he is our QB for the future and dont want to ever get rid of him
    Not trying to rip you or be to harsh here but I need some help/clarification from you.

    When, if at all, do you see the Chiller calling plays my friend.

    I saw several occasions when the Chiller was doing other things (ie. working the refs, grabbing a player coming off the field, or just standing there reading his play sheet not moving his mouth) when plays were being called in.

    Based on that and the fact that we were told by the Staff that Bevell would be calling the plays, I assume that is what is happening.

    Why do you insist that he is doing otherwise?
    What are you seeing that I'm not? :
    When we are offense and he is flipping over his laminated sheet with the plays on it and talking into his headset, is he just conferencing with Bevell as he is writing on that sheet or is he telling Bevell what to call? It looks like he is giving orders but it could be that he is ordering pizza from a menu ;D
    I can't think of any Head Coach in the league that doesn't wear the headset and talk into it.
    Again, a couple of things could be happening at that point....

    a.
    He is changing the play.
    Very unlikely based on the time it takes to relay that in.


    b.
    He is reminding the QB of an issue they saw during tape (i.e. watch for a S creeping up and your hot read is.......)
    Very likely that this is what is happening.

    c.
    He is asking the O-coord about the next series is the play is successfull/unsuccessfull.
    Very likely.

    d. He is talking to one of the Assistant about what the guys should be looking for on that play. I.e. Does the RB know he needs to watch for the S sneaking up on this play.
    Very likely.

    e.
    He is asking the O-coord why the hell he called that play in.
    Very unlikely.

    Long story short, the Chiller seems to be a stand up guy when it comes to who is in charge, what authority they are intrusted with and never trying to belittle that authority.
    I think that the Chiller is letting Bevell, as he is with the D-coord and ST-Coord make thier plays based on what he approved during the week and he is taking care of the big picture stuff i.e. working the coaches, working the refs working the players.

    How many times did you see him talking to a player or coach last night?
    I saw, AD, Kluwe, Rice and no coaches.
    Reason, players don't wear headsets and coaches do.
    He talks to the players verbally/face to face and the coaches over the headset.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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