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  1. #21
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Purple Blood wrote:
    I was discussing with the Wife How much I think rides on this season and the rumored possibilty of the Vikings moving to La. I live in Ca now but was Born and raised On Da Range! She said well that would work out well for you, they would be closer and you could get season tickets and fly down for the Home Games.

    I told her with a profanity laced explanation that, that would never happen.

    Just curious on your thought? Could you still be a Vikings Fan? I went through this in 92 with the North Stars , I was living just North of Dallas back then and I have never liked the Stars since. I'm Now a Huge Sharks Fan.
    Said it before, I'll say it again. The day the Vikings organization leaves Minnesota is the day I cease being a fan of the Vikings. I will find another (Non-NFCN) team to cheer for, and happily buy up THEIR merchandise, haunt THEIR websites, and criticize THEIR coaches and players. But the Vikings will earn only hatred from that day forward.

    Truth is, Wilf could build the stadium with his own money - and the other truth is that the tax payers NEVER get back the value of the money they put into stadium deals. So if he elects to leavae he does so because HE chose to do so, not because he HAD to.

    Caine
    That is false.

    Second part is probably true though.

    That new Twins stadium sure is a hit. Too bad it wasn't funded entirely by the owner. Evil politicians spent tax payer dollars on a stadium! *gasp!
    Before you start throwing stones, have you EVER bothered to actually LOOK a the financing of Stadiums, and how it actually works out for the communities who do so?

    Fact of the matter is, the communities take out huge loans, push them waaaaaay back, then hope like hell inflation catches up so it doesn't hurt quite so much.

    Here's an interesting article about the Marlin's stadium in Miami: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marlinsfinancials082410

    Go ahead and tell me how BS that one is...

    Truth is, Wilf and his owners group put up quite a large amount for the franchise...it stands to reason that they could obtain financing on their own, or at the very least, put up the major portion of the costs.

    But they don't. They, like every franchise before them, pushes it off on the public. And, sadly, the public never actually sees a return on their investment.

    Here's an article about THAT: http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/?id=35549

    and another: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25167

    and another: http://www.dailyrepublican.com/stadium-understated-cost.html

    and another: http://www.examiner.com/padres-in-san-diego/say-no-to-publicly-funded-stadiums

    and without even trying hard I can post link after link.

    Got anything to back up YOUR side?

    Caine
    Before you get your undies in a bunch I think you should reread my post. I agreed with the part about it not being a sound investment for tax payers.

    The only thing I argued was that you said Wilf could finance it himself...I said that was false because we don't know the truth. Reread my post. Thanks.

    LMFAO - and what exactly is MY side? Jeezus.
    This was your side:

    That new Twins stadium sure is a hit. Too bad it wasn't funded entirely by the owner. Evil politicians spent tax payer dollars on a stadium! *gasp!
    You said:

    and the other truth is that the tax payers NEVER get back the value of the money they put into stadium deals.
    I said:

    Second part is probably true though.
    (second part being your quote above of course)

    I stand by what I said about the new Twins stadium. It's been a huge hit and the community loves it. It may not be financially appealing or productive but either is buying a new car every three years...but people still do it because there is enjoyment value to be had.
    +1

  2. #22
    jmcdon00's Avatar
    jmcdon00 is offline Jersey Retired Snake Champion, Moto Trial Fest 2: Mountain Pack Champion, LL City Truck 2 Champion, Arithmetic sequence Champion, Troops Tower Defense Champion
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    jmcdon00 wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    vikinggreg wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    jmcdon00 wrote:
    We really don't know if Wilf could do it on his own or not.
    No we don't know. His net worth is estimated at 1.3 billion. A new stadium runs about 1 billion. Not looking promising for a self financed stadium, but again we really don't know the truth or all the details. For a scrub like you or I to stand back and declare one way or the other as fact is ridiculous.
    Wilf isn't the only owner of the Vikings and its hard to say what he would do if some of his partners chose to bailout on the venture if he would buy them out or just sell his portion of the team......to an interested party in LA
    That brings up another good point.

    Wilf partnered up with a group of people and ponied up a 600 million dollar investment on an NFL team. Some people think that this same group can double down on their investment now and throw another 1.2 Billion at it? That's not chump change for anybody. It's not like this 1.2B investment is going to increase their annual profits by 66 percent.
    Actually with a new collective bargaining agreement their profits could go up much more than 66%.
    Currently players recieve 60% of all revenue generated by the league(with a few exceptions for luxury boxes and such). Once the new collective bargaining deal is done that number could fall to about 40%.
    Say the vikes have 200million annual revenue. They pay 120million in salaries(60%), plus about another 60 million in stadium lease, operations, private jets, etc etc. So there profit end up about 20 million.
    Now if they pay the players less, about 80million(40% of revenue), there income stays the same but now instead of 180million in expenses they have 140 million in expenses. Now there profit is 60million, up 300% annually.

    Of course that doesn't change the argument that they could make more elsewhere, will leave without a publicly funded stadium.
    Never mind I missread bloodies post a bit. Still I do think it's prudent to see what the new collective bargaining agreement looks like before anything is done.

  3. #23
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    BloodyHorns82 wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Purple Blood wrote:
    I was discussing with the Wife How much I think rides on this season and the rumored possibilty of the Vikings moving to La. I live in Ca now but was Born and raised On Da Range! She said well that would work out well for you, they would be closer and you could get season tickets and fly down for the Home Games.

    I told her with a profanity laced explanation that, that would never happen.

    Just curious on your thought? Could you still be a Vikings Fan? I went through this in 92 with the North Stars , I was living just North of Dallas back then and I have never liked the Stars since. I'm Now a Huge Sharks Fan.
    Said it before, I'll say it again. The day the Vikings organization leaves Minnesota is the day I cease being a fan of the Vikings. I will find another (Non-NFCN) team to cheer for, and happily buy up THEIR merchandise, haunt THEIR websites, and criticize THEIR coaches and players. But the Vikings will earn only hatred from that day forward.

    Truth is, Wilf could build the stadium with his own money - and the other truth is that the tax payers NEVER get back the value of the money they put into stadium deals. So if he elects to leavae he does so because HE chose to do so, not because he HAD to.

    Caine
    That is false.

    Second part is probably true though.

    That new Twins stadium sure is a hit. Too bad it wasn't funded entirely by the owner. Evil politicians spent tax payer dollars on a stadium! *gasp!
    Before you start throwing stones, have you EVER bothered to actually LOOK a the financing of Stadiums, and how it actually works out for the communities who do so?

    Fact of the matter is, the communities take out huge loans, push them waaaaaay back, then hope like hell inflation catches up so it doesn't hurt quite so much.

    Here's an interesting article about the Marlin's stadium in Miami: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marlinsfinancials082410

    Go ahead and tell me how BS that one is...

    Truth is, Wilf and his owners group put up quite a large amount for the franchise...it stands to reason that they could obtain financing on their own, or at the very least, put up the major portion of the costs.

    But they don't. They, like every franchise before them, pushes it off on the public. And, sadly, the public never actually sees a return on their investment.

    Here's an article about THAT: http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/?id=35549

    and another: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25167

    and another: http://www.dailyrepublican.com/stadium-understated-cost.html

    and another: http://www.examiner.com/padres-in-san-diego/say-no-to-publicly-funded-stadiums

    and without even trying hard I can post link after link.

    Got anything to back up YOUR side?

    Caine
    Before you get your undies in a bunch I think you should reread my post. I agreed with the part about it not being a sound investment for tax payers.

    The only thing I argued was that you said Wilf could finance it himself...I said that was false because we don't know the truth. Reread my post. Thanks.

    LMFAO - and what exactly is MY side? Jeezus.
    This was your side:

    That new Twins stadium sure is a hit. Too bad it wasn't funded entirely by the owner. Evil politicians spent tax payer dollars on a stadium! *gasp!
    You said:

    and the other truth is that the tax payers NEVER get back the value of the money they put into stadium deals.
    I said:

    Second part is probably true though.
    (second part being your quote above of course)

    I stand by what I said about the new Twins stadium. It's been a huge hit and the community loves it. It may not be financially appealing or productive but either is buying a new car every three years...but people still do it because there is enjoyment value to be had.
    It was the way you stated it - the overt sarcasm - which gave the impression of disagreement.

    Even so, when it comes to new stadiums, the truth of the matter is that only the "Twins fans" part of the community loves it. The rest are probably ambivalent...unless they are economists, then they're pissed.

    The POINT I was making is that Wilf can secure financing on his own (With the ownership group). And if there's REALLY money to be made by doing so, he would.

    But instead, for the last 20 years team after team in every major sport has been clamoring for new stadiums - and getting them - citing the economic benefit to the communities and threatening to leave if they don't get their way.

    Now that the economic data is coming back, we see just how screwed the tax payers are on these deals. And if you read the Marlins article, you'll see that some teams even lie about their revenues in order to gain public funding.

    But here's the core of my position: With my limited budget, I spend my entertainment dollars almost exclusively on Minnesota Viking paraphernalia. I do it because I love the team...and have for a long time.

    Zygi says he's committed to Minnesota...let's see if he really is? Let's see him put up a proposal where his group fronts the majority of the stadium costs, and the public picks up a much smaller percentage - with a pay back schedule from Zygi.

    I don't think we'll see that. I think we'll see, "If you don't pay for the stadium, we're leaving". That's kind of like me saying to the Vikings, "I'll cheer for you, but only if you buy half of my stuff". Not really much of a commitment, is it.


    Caine

  4. #24
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    NO!!

    "insert picture of moving van and new la stadium here"

    Just pay the extra taxes and keep the team where its at. Its only money

  5. #25
    12purplepride28's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    If someday they do move to LA (which I highly doubt will happen, what with the Jags and several other move worthy teams out there), I really hope this site doesn't go down. It can be a tribute Forum. Although there isn't a Super Bowl to tribute to...
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  6. #26
    purplehelmut's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    Vikings leave the great state of Minnesota (and I don't even live there) and I'm dumping them like Tiger dumped ho's. Probably root for a team closer to me like the Steelers (I always have a blast in Pittsburgh, just not at football games), the Bengals (be tough- like jumping from the frying pan into the fire), or Carolina. Carolina is kind of new and only 4 hours away and I don't really hate 'em- yet. Always respected the Steeler franchise but I couldn't really like them after they clobbered us in the SB.

  7. #27
    scottishvike's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    Although I would hate it if it ever came to pass I probably would stick with the franchise in it's new home. Only because I couldn't just pick another existing NFL team to follow instead, too much baggage.

  8. #28
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    To answer the question at hand...

    No, I don't think I would still be a fan. I'd probably become a Cardinals fan with Marstc.

    If they moved it would be devastating. All these years longing for a big dance only to move away to L freaking A. They couldn't move to a worse city IMO. I have no respect for L.A., the city of plastic.

  9. #29
    ndnorseman is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    marstc09 wrote:
    It depends on if the colors and logos change. If things change then NO. If they say the same, yes.

    For me, if they kept the name "Vikings", then I would stay a fan regardless of where they're playing (L.A. would be closer to me also, but it's still pretty far away). The colors should stay the same, too. The logo wouldn't really need to stay the same, since teams update their logos all the time.

    If the name goes, though...can we talk about something else?

  10. #30
    ConnecticutViking's Avatar
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    Re:La Vikings Could you still be a Fan?

    I also went through losing a professional team, (Whalers), yes I know they always sucked, but they were my team. Needless to say, I did not become a Carolina Hurricane fan. As far as team name, if the Vikes move, the name stays with Minnesota. The believe the Colts were the last team to move with their name, this is why the Oilers became the Titans. I will still be a Vikings fan, maybe root for one of the local teams around here ( Jets or Pats), even though I hate them all. But I would never root for the Los Angeles Pornstars.

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