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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    lol. bullshit.

    You have maintained that single game tickets were going to go up by a shitload due to the new stadium. I have always said that they would not. I have also always said that they will use PSLs or SBLs.
    I never pared it down to single game tickets but nice try. I have always maintained the average ticket price will go up by large number, which I would put in the 20% and up range. And you absolutely need to factor the cost of the PSL in the cost of the ticket price because you can't buy 75% of the tickets without paying it. Period. Even without that the cost is certainly going up more than 10% as well as the cost of concessions, parking etc. They will all be more than 10% higher than they are now.



    Go back and look at the conversations. You know I am right here. Average ticket price will probably jump around $10 to $85-90. Just like I have said many times.
    I will disagree.


    The SBLs are a one time fee. I do NOT have to pay them as a ticket owner. I can default on my tickets, wait a year or two until the $125 million cap is hit, and then get tickets again. And my average ticket price will never jump like you say it will.
    How? Do you think the owner of the PSL is just going to give you the seats and not have you pay them back for the money they paid for it? Tell you what- Why don't you buy 4 of the 10K PSL's and use them for a few years, then give them up for nothing to someone else.


    You can't roll SBLs into the ticket price, and you certainly were NOT doing it before when you were making your ridiculous claims.
    Ridiculous? Are you that damn naive? How the hell is the stadium going to generate 1 BILLION. (That is BILLION) dollars of money to pay for this thing when the current dome, which is paid for, is losing money every year and has essentially depleted it's depreciation value in order to stay solvent when they aren't adding any extra seats? You cannot be serious to thing that revenue can be created and yet nothing is going to cost more? We are talking a hell of a lot more than 10% in additional operating expenses and debt payments.

    BTW, the studies I referenced came both before AND after the legislation was signed. They were market studies done by BOTH the Vikings and the State to determine how much the market would support in ticket prices. But I am glad that you trust your gut more... Thank goodness that billion dollar investments are not made on guts though. I would prefer to see a little more research behind it.
    Seriously- The state and the team made the projections for the lottery too and guess what- they were wrong. Do you understand the difference between projections and reality? You also don't know how how these studies are conducted. Were they phrased " Your ticket prices are going to go up and if you are a family of 4 you will have to shell out an average of 10K just for the right to buy tickets added to the increased ticket prices"? If not then they were worthless.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Is the overall cost higher for ticket owners? Of course.


    Your family of four who had tickets for $50 each.....
    this ends up being closer to $80 per seat per game. Much more manageable.
    Current: $70 per ticket (including 10% season ticket owner discount).
    Price for 1 year with SBLs and 20% increase: $84 + $2500/10 = $334 per game.
    Price for 5 years with SBLs and 20% increase: $84 + $2500/10/5 = $134 per game.





    10% huh?




    well, yeah.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    If the Vikings are giving out $10,000, 5 year payment plans that are only $50 month then people would be fools to pay the $10K PSL's up front.

    50 x 12 x 5 = 3,000
    Math doesn't count when you are talking about the stadium. In his reality there is no difference between 50 and 166.67 dollars a month.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minniman View Post
    Can I use the Vikings for my mortgage? That is a good deal!

    Actually, this is for up front stadium money and likely can be sold by the SBL's owner, so there is a price to get in and some sort of cash out. It is like a timeshare for seating. If someone has the money up front, it is no big deal. For many of us, other priorities like college for kids, automobiles, the mortgage, and home maintenance are a priority over and couple of SBLs.
    You can add food, heat & electricity to that list as well.

    IMO it is like a timeshare as you are buying those seats for only 10 days out of the year, possibly less if the Vikings continue to play home games in London. That PSL doesn't mean shit that weekend. They may play more than those 9 or 10 if they host a playoff game. Also I don't believe those PSL's have any bearing on any other event held at the stadium the PSL owner may want to attend.

    What happens if a fan wants to upgrade their seats? Do they have to pay a 2nd PSL? I imagine they will.

    Owners can sell their PSL's, but I don't think they'll recoup a lot of their investment, if any at all, should they want out.

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  5. #35
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    25 Percent of New Vikings Stadium Seats Won't Have Fees

    As far as who gets what, some of the factors for season ticket holders will likely be seniority and the location of current tickets.
    25 Percent of New Vikings Stadium Seats Won't Have Fees | KSTP TV - Minneapolis and St. Paul

    I wonder how many of the 25% will go to Stub Hub and several of the other Brokers who currently have a lot of those cheaper seats.
    Last edited by singersp; 10-06-2013 at 01:20 PM.

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  6. #36
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    Key Vikings stadium agreements on authority agenda

    Of course lots of people don't realize the PSLs are funding something like 25% of wilfs portion of the stadium. Couple that with the NFL letting him use the money that he would already have to give to the league in profit sharing to retire the NFL loan and he really isn't putting much money of his own into this project considering what he is getting out of it.

    That being said a certain poster mid represented my stance on the PSLs in that I am not upset they have them. Actually they are a much better alternative to public subsidies and except for the ticket prices being raised to the point that the stadium is self supporting this is an acceptable alternative.

    My whole point was that very few people knew what the cost of attending a game was going to look like or how deep it would get into their wallets and this is just the initial dose of reality and there are more to come when ticket, parking and concession prices are released.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Math doesn't count when you are talking about the stadium. In his reality there is no difference between 50 and 166.67 dollars a month.
    Snippy today aren't we.

    I am going to try and be clear - I don't know if I am miscommunicating, or if you are just being unreasonably stubborn, but I will do my best.

    Average ticket price will NOT rise significantly as you have repeatedly claimed in the past. SBLs are NOT part of the ticket price. Neither are concessions or parking for that matter, even though they do impact the overall fan cost.

    When you are including SBLs into the average ticket price, you are misrepresenting the numbers. For instance, in 2009, St Louis had an average ticket price of $70.90. That means that in 2009, I could go to the Ram's ticket office, and I can purchase an average ticket for $70.90. And yet they have PSLs... Did that change the price of the average ticket? No. It is completely separate, and in a location like St Louis or Minneapolis, where every seat is NOT sold as a season ticket, it is simply wrong to try and include it.

    The SBL or PSL is simple a fee that gives an owner the license to purchase the same seats every year at a discounted price and before they go on sale to anyone else. A comparison could be the ticketmaster fees. I bought some extra tickets for my buddies this year for the Eagles game. The face value of the tickets was $83 each. Yet when the fees were added, it ended up being $502 for 5. Should we add in the ticket master fees into the average cost of the tickets? Of course not. Not only because you can avoid them by simply going to the ticket office directly, but also because they are not evenly distributed across tickets. The same applies to the SBLs. You can avoid the fee entirely by simply buying single game tickets. And because they are an one time non-renewable fee, you would have to amortize them over an unknown value - the length of time the tickets are held. There is no way to determine what the 'average' SBL fee applied to each game ticket over the life of the season tickets will be. They can only say what the average SBL fee per seat will be, which is approximately $2500.

    I hope that is clear. Single game tickets will not go up significantly because of the new stadium. They will go up, but a market like Minneapolis cannot support the ticket prices that Dallas and New York have. Simple as that. (BTW, you noticed that the PSL fees are not included in the 'average' ticket price for Dallas and New York, right?).
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

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  8. #38
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    I see three different questions there, and I will do my best to answer them in context.

    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    You can add food, heat & electricity to that list as well.

    IMO it is like a timeshare as you are buying those seats for only 10 days out of the year, possibly less if the Vikings continue to play home games in London. That PSL doesn't mean shit that weekend. They may play more than those 9 or 10 if they host a playoff game. Also I don't believe those PSL's have any bearing on any other event held at the stadium the PSL owner may want to attend.
    Mostly correct. The SBL applies to all pre-season, regular season, and post season games that the Vikings play at in the stadium. They technically do not apply to home games played at other stadiums, such as in Detroit a couple years ago or in London this year. However, the Vikings have given season ticket owners first priority to purchase those tickets, and will continue to do so.

    A time share is actually a very good comparison IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    What happens if a fan wants to upgrade their seats? Do they have to pay a 2nd PSL? I imagine they will.
    This is both correct, and incorrect.

    Think of it as owning a house. If you want to change houses, you have to sell yours and buy a new one. If you sell yours for more than you purchase the new one for, you pocket the difference. If you sell yours for less, you pay the difference.

    Here is where it gets weird - the SBLs will be bought and sold almost on the secondary market. Once the Vikings hit the $125 million cap (which is basically one SBL for each seat that has one), they can no longer sell them. Even if a fan defaults on the SBL and it reverts to the Vikings, they can not sell it. When this happens at other stadiums, they typically offer the seats to the adjacent seats at no cost. (although this doesn't happen very often)

    So to upgrade, you will be selling and buying on the secondary market. In good years the prices go up, and in bad years the prices go down. Just like the secondary market for single game tickets.


    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Owners can sell their PSL's, but I don't think they'll recoup a lot of their investment, if any at all, should they want out.
    They will recoup some, but it depends on the year. You are pretty savvy at eBay, it works much the same way. If the Vikings are having a great year I can always sell my single game tickets for significantly more than I paid for them. If they are having a bad year, often times I can't. But I have never been completely unable to sell my tickets. The same goes for the SBLs. Good years they are going to fetch a higher price, bad years they won't. But you will never have to default on them unless you are an absolute idiot or are filing for bankruptcy the next day.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #39
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    Vikings seat license fees prove too costly for some fans

    Some fans, like Ann and Kevin Faulds, of Osseo, says those fees will price them out of the stadium, and it comes with an emotional cost - the season tickets have been in their family for a half century.
    Vikings seat license fees prove too costly for some fans | kare11.com

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post

    I hope that is clear. Single game tickets will not go up significantly because of the new stadium. They will go up, but a market like Minneapolis cannot support the ticket prices that Dallas and New York have. Simple as that. (BTW, you noticed that the PSL fees are not included in the 'average' ticket price for Dallas and New York, right?).
    OK, Lets just take your position for a moment and think this through.

    We already know how many seats the Dome has. We know it is paid for and we know that it has been losing money for at least 20 years now unless you use depreciation to offset the losses.

    We know the new stadium will hold the same number of fans as the dome, will have an additional Billion dollars in expenses, where is the money coming from to pay for it?

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