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  1. #11
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    It will basically kill family attendance at the games for a significant percentage of the fan base. Even at the median price of 2.5k per ticket, which doesn't even get a good seat, you are talking a 10k investment for a family of 4 just to have the privilege of buying the overpriced tickets, parking and concessions. The team doesn't have the rich history of winning championships that the majority of other teams have that are building stadiums in this price range and Minnesota citizens tend to be more frugal with their money too.

    My guess is there will be a lot of families that will decide to buy a big screen, purchase Sunday Ticket, and stay home to watch the game.
    sigh...

    How is it that the median price of $2.5k doesn't get a good seat? You have a source for that, or are you making things up to support your argument?

    And it isn't the median price anyway. It is the average or mean price. But to be fair, they will probably be somewhat close to each other considering that nearly 1/4 of the seats will have no SBL, and another 10k will be $1k or less. That puts it around 40% of the seats in the new stadium will have a SBL of $1000 or less. By your logic, that means that nearly half of the stadium will be bad seats.

    <rolls eyes>

    Your guess that a lot of families will decided to forgo their season tickets and purchase Sunday ticket instead is based on pretty much nothing except your own personal history and opinion. It ignores the market studies, the season ticker owner surveys and studys (of which several people on PP.O were a part of), etc... Will there be some atrophy of ticket holders that have 4+ tickets? Probably. But not enough to make a significant dent in the ticket sales.

    I don't get it with you. You bitch and moan when public money is used to build a stadium. You bitch and moan about the cost of going to a game when private money is used to build a stadium. What exactly do you want?
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    If seats are not purchased as season tickets, then there is to SBL fee attached. SBLs are the right to purchase season tickets for a specific seat.

    I agree that they will have problems selling out in 2014 and 2015, but that IMHO is more because of playing at TCF than anything else. Although I see your point... some people aren't going to want to spend money on SBLs as early as 2014 if the next two years are at the Bank. It is an understandable position. If there is a drop off in season ticket owners, I suspect it will be back up in time for the new stadium. In fact, by 2016 I expect there to be a waiting list again, at least for the first couple of years.

    As far as the older fans... I actually don't think it will be as much of a problem. There will be some atrophy, but not enough to be a significant difference. I think the bigger issue will be corporate packages. Radio Stations that have a block of 100 tickets, and stuff like that. I wonder how SBLs factor into those.
    Can you resell the SBLs down the road and give the new owner the same rights as the original purchaser?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    sigh...

    How is it that the median price of $2.5k doesn't get a good seat? You have a source for that, or are you making things up to support your argument?

    And it isn't the median price anyway. It is the average or mean price. But to be fair, they will probably be somewhat close to each other considering that nearly 1/4 of the seats will have no SBL, and another 10k will be $1k or less. That puts it around 40% of the seats in the new stadium will have a SBL of $1000 or less. By your logic, that means that nearly half of the stadium will be bad seats.

    <rolls eyes>

    Your guess that a lot of families will decided to forgo their season tickets and purchase Sunday ticket instead is based on pretty much nothing except your own personal history and opinion. It ignores the market studies, the season ticker owner surveys and studys (of which several people on PP.O were a part of), etc... Will there be some atrophy of ticket holders that have 4+ tickets? Probably. But not enough to make a significant dent in the ticket sales.

    I don't get it with you. You bitch and moan when public money is used to build a stadium. You bitch and moan about the cost of going to a game when private money is used to build a stadium. What exactly do you want?
    Perhaps its the attitude of the wealthy involved in all of these projects:

    -pay a one time fee for each seat to build a building owned by ME, then
    -buy tickets for everyone going that costs more than concert tickets, then
    -pay for the privilege of parking close to the building you help pay to build that I own, then
    -buy food that is priced at about the same rate that food cost in boomtowns during the gold rush.

    Now I get to rent my new building out for top dollar to other events in the city, and once its all paid for I can still keep my ticket, food and parking prices high to really cash in.
    ~Says every team owner in America, and now in Minnesota

    I didn't see if the PSL is a one time fee, or if its like the Raiders...a 10 year "contract". Anyone know? The raiders weren't building a new stadium, they were just moving back to Oakland at the time.

    I just think that if a fan is expected to help pay for the stadium, they should hold a share in that stadium, just like if you were investing in any other land project. Only professional sports does this "business deal", and I think it stinks. Many fans here in Oregon I know use their vacation money for the year to buy their season tickets for the Seahawks, in essence the games ARE their vacations. If they had to come up with $4-10k in addition to the ticket prices, they would lose their seats.

    Bottom Line: it is the way of the world these days, and the Vikings are not being unfair when compared to other teams; but that doesn't mean everyone has to like "how every team does it."

    Flame on, I don't mind the abuse from people who disagree. =)

  4. #14
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Can you resell the SBLs down the road and give the new owner the same rights as the original purchaser?
    Yes. That is a one time license fer for that seat and if you decide to give up the seats you can sell the license to a willing buyer at any price. Some times they go up in value and some times they go down and you take a loss,

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewlovs View Post
    Perhaps its the attitude of the wealthy involved in all of these projects:

    -pay a one time fee for each seat to build a building owned by ME, then
    -buy tickets for everyone going that costs more than concert tickets, then
    -pay for the privilege of parking close to the building you help pay to build that I own, then
    -buy food that is priced at about the same rate that food cost in boomtowns during the gold rush.

    Now I get to rent my new building out for top dollar to other events in the city, and once its all paid for I can still keep my ticket, food and parking prices high to really cash in.
    ~Says every team owner in America, and now in Minnesota

    I didn't see if the PSL is a one time fee, or if its like the Raiders...a 10 year "contract". Anyone know? The raiders weren't building a new stadium, they were just moving back to Oakland at the time.

    I just think that if a fan is expected to help pay for the stadium, they should hold a share in that stadium, just like if you were investing in any other land project. Only professional sports does this "business deal", and I think it stinks. Many fans here in Oregon I know use their vacation money for the year to buy their season tickets for the Seahawks, in essence the games ARE their vacations. If they had to come up with $4-10k in addition to the ticket prices, they would lose their seats.

    Bottom Line: it is the way of the world these days, and the Vikings are not being unfair when compared to other teams; but that doesn't mean everyone has to like "how every team does it."

    Flame on, I don't mind the abuse from people who disagree. =)
    It is a capped program, with a limit of $125 million coming from the SBLs. That is basically a one time sale for each seat that has a SBL associated with it.

    And I will concede that not everyone has to like how it is done. I am glad that you have conceded that the Vikings are not being unfair.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #16
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    sigh...
    Here's a hanky. Make sure to blow your nose.

    How is it that the median price of $2.5k doesn't get a good seat? You have a source for that, or are you making things up to support your argument?
    You got one to refute it?

    And it isn't the median price anyway. It is the average or mean price. But to be fair, they will probably be somewhat close to each other considering that nearly 1/4 of the seats will have no SBL, and another 10k will be $1k or less. That puts it around 40% of the seats in the new stadium will have a SBL of $1000 or less. By your logic, that means that nearly half of the stadium will be bad seats.
    Average. Happy?

    <rolls eyes>
    Farts.

    Your guess that a lot of families will decided to forgo their season tickets and purchase Sunday ticket instead is based on pretty much nothing except your own personal history and opinion. It ignores the market studies, the season ticker owner surveys and studys (of which several people on PP.O were a part of), etc... Will there be some atrophy of ticket holders that have 4+ tickets? Probably. But not enough to make a significant dent in the ticket sales.
    Seriously? Studies? I will trust my gut feeling more than any study slated to sell the stadium.

    Let me remind you they did a study that showed we would generate 35 Million a year in lottery sales to pay for the stadium and they took in something like 7.5.

    Other than that there are a few people that I do know who have season tickets and have had them for years and now are going to let them go. Secondly it doesn't take a study to understand how strapped people are for cash in this economy and that there isn't an abundance of people with thousands of dollars laying around that they can spend on the seats even if they wanted to.




    I don't get it with you. You bitch and moan when public money is used to build a stadium. You bitch and moan about the cost of going to a game when private money is used to build a stadium. What exactly do you want?
    Who was bitching? I was making a statement that challenged the assertion that you have made for years that it wasn't going to cost more to go to a game in the new stadium. Don't try and turn this on me because you now have to stand up and admit that prices are going to be much higher to go to the game and yes, the PSL is part of the ticket price and no, you cannot make a case that it isn't because if you have to pay it to get a season ticket in any part of the stadium it is part of the ticket price.

    I am not mad they are doing it at all in fact I think ticket prices should be much higher to pay for the stadium. That way there would be less public dollars needed. My comment was merely to point out how wrong you were when you said it wasn't going to cost any more to see the vikings in the new stadium than it would in the Dome.

    Tha coupled with the fact that I said over and over that while many fans wanted the new stadium they had no clue how much it would end up costing them to go to a game compared to what it costs in the dome and that when it happened, many would end up having to stay home because the price was too high. That's all. No anger, no bitching, just observations.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Yes. That is a one time license fer for that seat and if you decide to give up the seats you can sell the license to a willing buyer at any price. Some times they go up in value and some times they go down and you take a loss,
    Correct.

    I expect these to go down in value - mostly because it is not a continuing program. That means if I default on my seats, the SBL goes back to the team, and next next person to buy them doesn't have to pay a SBL.

    As a ticket owner, I would VERY much prefer that the SBLs continued. Hell, I wish that they would go up in proportion to the ticket prices each year. That would protect my investment.

    Unfortunately, the state put pressure on the Vikings to 'limit' the amount of revenue that they could 'fleece' the ticket owners with (quotes from Dayton when he "realized" that the Vikings were intending to use PSLs even though it was already specifically spelled out in the legislation that he signed). As a result it is a basically a one time sale, and nobody wins. Yay politics. I love how the suckitude of the Minnesota government can even screw people who aren't residents there... That takes a special kind of suck.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #18
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Here's a hanky. Make sure to blow your nose.



    You got one to refute it?



    Average. Happy?


    Farts.



    Seriously? Studies? I will trust my gut feeling more than any study slated to sell the stadium.

    Let me remind you they did a study that showed we would generate 35 Million a year in lottery sales to pay for the stadium and they took in something like 7.5.

    Other than that there are a few people that I do know who have season tickets and have had them for years and now are going to let them go. Secondly it doesn't take a study to understand how strapped people are for cash in this economy and that there isn't an abundance of people with thousands of dollars laying around that they can spend on the seats even if they wanted to.






    Who was bitching? I was making a statement that challenged the assertion that you have made for years that it wasn't going to cost more to go to a game in the new stadium. Don't try and turn this on me because you now have to stand up and admit that prices are going to be much higher to go to the game and yes, the PSL is part of the ticket price and no, you cannot make a case that it isn't because if you have to pay it to get a season ticket in any part of the stadium it is part of the ticket price.

    I am not mad they are doing it at all in fact I think ticket prices should be much higher to pay for the stadium. That way there would be less public dollars needed. My comment was merely to point out how wrong you were when you said it wasn't going to cost any more to see the vikings in the new stadium than it would in the Dome.

    Tha coupled with the fact that I said over and over that while many fans wanted the new stadium they had no clue how much it would end up costing them to go to a game compared to what it costs in the dome and that when it happened, many would end up having to stay home because the price was too high. That's all. No anger, no bitching, just observations.
    lol. bullshit.

    You have maintained that single game tickets were going to go up by a shitload due to the new stadium. I have always said that they would not. I have also always said that they will use PSLs or SBLs.

    Go back and look at the conversations. You know I am right here. Average ticket price will probably jump around $10 to $85-90. Just like I have said many times.

    The SBLs are a one time fee. I do NOT have to pay them as a ticket owner. I can default on my tickets, wait a year or two until the $125 million cap is hit, and then get tickets again. And my average ticket price will never jump like you say it will.

    You can't roll SBLs into the ticket price, and you certainly were NOT doing it before when you were making your ridiculous claims.

    BTW, the studies I referenced came both before AND after the legislation was signed. They were market studies done by BOTH the Vikings and the State to determine how much the market would support in ticket prices. But I am glad that you trust your gut more... Thank goodness that billion dollar investments are not made on guts though. I would prefer to see a little more research behind it.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  9. #19
    smegmavike is offline Coach
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    Are you really going to call it an investment ?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    It will basically kill family attendance at the games for a significant percentage of the fan base. Even at the median price of 2.5k per ticket, which doesn't even get a good seat, you are talking a 10k investment for a family of 4 just to have the privilege of buying the overpriced tickets, parking and concessions. The team doesn't have the rich history of winning championships that the majority of other teams have that are building stadiums in this price range and Minnesota citizens tend to be more frugal with their money too.

    My guess is there will be a lot of families that will decide to buy a big screen, purchase Sunday Ticket, and stay home to watch the game.
    Agreed 100%, sans the "doesn't even get a good seat", but we are still talking for an average seat.
    Last edited by singersp; 10-05-2013 at 08:25 AM.

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